Feral Interactive have no plans to put their Linux ports on GOG

Quoting: johndoeFrom the view of a publisher it would be not clever to release a game DRM-free if it means that "one purchase" can be used at the "same time" by a multitudinous family.
This would mean that they lose a lot of money.

Smart or not smart, they are already doing it and releasing DRM-free. I doubt family is a major consideration for them. Even DRMed stores can allow family sharing (including Steam).

As GOG link above said, games can have additional agreements, but many use base agreement with GOG. In my experience, such additional agreements aren't common.


Last edited by Shmerl on 19 June 2018 at 7:57 pm UTC

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: johndoeFrom the view of a publisher it would be not clever to release a game DRM-free if it means that "one purchase" can be used at the "same time" by a multitudinous family.
This would mean that they lose a lot of money.

Smart or not smart, they are already doing it and releasing DRM-free. I doubt family is a major consideration for them. Even DRMed stores can allow family sharing (including Steam).

As GOG link above said, games can have additional agreements, but many use base agreement with GOG. In my experience, such additional agreements aren't common.

This is not true for Steam.
Steam has "Steam Family Sharing"...
It allows you to share your games library with 10 devices inhouse but only one device can play a game when you only have "one purchase" for it.
Read here...
https://store.steampowered.com/promotion/familysharing

Maybe this is the reason why Feral don't like to put their games on GOG.

Quoting: johndoeMaybe this is the reason why Feral don't like to put their games on GOG.

If anyone wants to ignore that limitation, they can access pirated games anyway, so how exactly would it even prevent family sharing to begin with? It's same as with other not authorized sharing. So it's not an argument to use DRM.


Last edited by Shmerl on 19 June 2018 at 8:15 pm UTC

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: johndoeMaybe this is the reason why Feral don't like to put their games on GOG.

If anyone wants to ignore that limitation, they can access pirated games anyway, so how exactly would it even prevent family sharing to begin with? It's same as with other not authorized sharing. So it's not an argument to use DRM.

I'am currently reading GOGs User Agreement and found...

2.2 When you buy or install GOG games, you might have to agree to additional contract terms with the developer/publisher of the game (e.g. they might ask you to agree to a game specific End User Licence Agreement). If there is any inconsistency or dispute between those ‘EULAs’ and this Agreement, then this Agreement wins.

The last sentence does not sound really good.

To be honest. I don't think that most games from GOG are allowed to be played at the "same time" with only "one purchase".
Most people don't read EULAs.

If this is true than many GOG users might violate the publishers EULA without knowing it.
I mean...
GOG has no DRM which controls "multiple" access to "one purchase" like Steam with "Steam Family Sharing".
It is under the users control to check if your sun, daughter, whoever is playing a game you are currently playing yourself.

From my point of view DRM is not always bad.
For "Steam Family Sharing" this means that it protects the users from violating the publishers EULA.

Beside this Shmerl, I really like your attitude. Keep on knocking for your rights even if I don't share all your opinions.

Quoting: johndoe2.2 When you buy or install GOG games, you might have to agree to additional contract terms with the developer/publisher of the game (e.g. they might ask you to agree to a game specific End User Licence Agreement). If there is any inconsistency or dispute between those ‘EULAs’ and this Agreement, then this Agreement wins.

The last sentence does not sound really good.

To be honest. I don't think that most games from GOG are allowed to be played at the "same time" with only "one purchase".
Most people don't read EULAs.

I don't see anything about this specific point in GOG's agreement. And I said, most games don't make additions to it. Do you have an example of such game that adds such condition?


Last edited by Shmerl on 19 June 2018 at 8:43 pm UTC

Quoting: johndoeSteam has "Steam Family Sharing"...
It allows you to share your games library with 10 devices inhouse but only one device can play a game when you only have "one purchase" for it.
…
Maybe this is the reason why Feral don't like to put their games on GOG.

If Feral don't like to put its games on any DRM-free store (it's not about GOG in particular after all), then someone will put their games DRM-free on all torrent trackers. Or, in fact, someone will put them there regardless of Feral's will.
Just for the sake of experiment, I tried to search for Linux version of "Rise of the Tomb Raider" and was successful (no, I did not download and can not say whether that copy works or not).

The only thing Feral achieves by refusing to release its ports DRM-free is alienating people who refuse to tolerate DRM, virtually forcing them to use torrents (or ignore the games altogether). Hardcore Pirates are not affected.

Sadly, at this time Ferals' reasons are black box for us as Feral is not eager to elucidate.

Quoting: johndoeTo be honest. I don't think that most games from GOG are allowed to be played at the "same time" with only "one purchase".
Most people don't read EULAs.

I believe you are entirely correct here.

Quoting: johndoeIf this is true than many GOG users might violate the publishers EULA without knowing it.

Yes, most EULAs prohibit such sharing, yet, it should be noted that there are cases where a country's law explicitly grants such permissions (AFAIK, in USoA it is called "Fair Use" or something like that). In these cases a country law takes precedence, but DRM (or, more correctly "Technical Means of Author's Rirghts Copyright Protection" ) prevents buyers from realizing such law-approved exceptions. (Steam Family Sharing is just an attempt to rectify this inherent DRM flaw).

Moreover, even working DRM mechanism does not prevent (yet) byuers from accidental EULA violation, e. g. it is not legal to allow your guests (even friends) to play your games on your hardware because they are not part of your family. Of course, face recognition mechanisms and biometric database will close this loophole.


Last edited by Alm888 on 19 June 2018 at 9:01 pm UTC

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: johndoe2.2 When you buy or install GOG games, you might have to agree to additional contract terms with the developer/publisher of the game (e.g. they might ask you to agree to a game specific End User Licence Agreement). If there is any inconsistency or dispute between those ‘EULAs’ and this Agreement, then this Agreement wins.

The last sentence does not sound really good.

To be honest. I don't think that most games from GOG are allowed to be played at the "same time" with only "one purchase".
Most people don't read EULAs.

I don't see anything about this specific point in GOG's agreement. And I said, most games don't make additions to it. Do you have an example of such game that adds such condition?

WAIT!!!
I have missread 2.2.

2.2 When you buy or install GOG games, you might have to agree to additional contract terms with the developer/publisher of the game (e.g. they might ask you to agree to a game specific End User Licence Agreement). If there is any inconsistency or dispute between those ‘EULAs’ and this Agreement, then this Agreement wins.

IT MEANS that GOGs Agreement counts MORE than the publishers.
This is definitely a big PLUS for GOG.

Quoting: Alm888I tried to search for Linux version of "Rise of the Tomb Raider" and was successful (no, I did not download and can not say whether that copy works or not).

We Linux users are better than those windows folks:)
Keep on knocking and something WILL happen.

Quoting: johndoeWe Linux users are better than those windows folks:)
Keep on knocking and something WILL happen.

Yep! :D
That's why I never pirate Linux games, ever! That's a rule I intend to follow no matter what.

Hey GOG,
please sell redeem cards like Steam do at my gas station.

Quoting: hummer010

Quoting: Mountain ManMost publishers only really care about hindering pirates for the first week or so since that's usually when a hot game will put up its best sales numbers, and people will be more likely to buy if they can't simply download for free.

This is the crux of the matter right here. Are the people who want to pirate a game really more likely to buy it if it's not available to pirate? Or are the people who buy the game in the first week or so the people who weren't going to pirate it anyways?

I don't know the answers, but my gut feeling says that the pirates don't readily become buyers just because it hasn't been pirated yet.

DRM rarely deters the hardcore warez crowd, but it does deter "casual" users, especially when services like Steam offer such an easy and convenient way to legally obtain software.

Quoting: namikoPost-purchase authentication was the original purpose of DRM in its earliest forms. Fucking around with your game's digital access, gameplay capabilities, not to mention data scraping from your machine without telling you, the more egregious DRM stuff all came later. Even Wikipedia's definition of DRM is defined as "access control".

Apparently, even Nintendo Entertainment System cartridges would make you look up things in their manuals to prove you had bought a game; I remember DOS and Windows games did that too. It was all about access control. It's still about access control, authentication, today.

That was a common form of copy protection on Commodore 64 games, too. It was preferable to the other popular method that would intentionally write bad sectors to the floppy disk that would cause your drive head to rattle about which didn't prevent the software from eventually loading but was enough to stop most disk copy programs. Unfortunately, all that knocking about of the drive head could eventually cause misalignment which necessitated a trip to the local computer repair shop.

Quoting: Mountain ManDRM rarely deters the hardcore warez crowd, but it does deter "casual" users, especially when services like Steam offer such an easy and convenient way to legally obtain software.

Hardcore crowd are ones that take said DRM and break it to make DRM-free torrent releases. Casual pirates don't need anything hardcore, they just download what the hardcore ones prepared for them. So in the end DRM deters nothing. Those who want and can buy DRMed version will buy it and will be punished with DRM for buying. Pirates which don't buy will be rewarded with cracked DRM-free version. That's a rather perverted approach designed by DRM proponents.


Last edited by Shmerl on 19 June 2018 at 9:52 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEPLet's be honest, over 90% of games you play exactly once, what good does it do you to own those after that? Nothing.

Not really, no. Almost every game I have ever played in my life I have come back to play again at some point later on. And for those few that I have not, I still very much value having the option to do so. I have never understood how people can find media to be a disposable as they do. Yes, I do find myself going back to old favourites way more often than I end up trying something new, but because of that I end up getting way more value out of the games and media that I do choose to engage with. Gaming for me is not about having one night stands.

Off-topic: I want to write a poem (even do my English is bad). Not about DRM at all!

Disclaimer: This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events, locales, and incidents are either the products of the author’s imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.

Small indie developers

Small indie developers is small
Small indie developers is poor
Small indie developers is inefficient
Small indie developers is aficionados on gaming
Small indie developers is willing to accept criticism
Small indie developers is willing to fixed bug, even they had no resources
Small indie developers is always proud of their arts
And small indie developers always thankful to their supporters.

BUT...

Small indie developers is not public company/corporation
Small indie developers is not have hundred millions dollars in revenue
Small indie developers is not listed on stock exhange
Small indie developers is not having multiple subsidiaries
Small indie developers is not having hundreds of employees
Small indie developers is not place for job hoppers
And small indie developers never against their supporters wishes.

I want to say thank you small indie developers, the real one
For everything that you done
Be best and keep getting better
For Linux gaming future.

p/s: My poem is DRM-Free.

Quoting: Hamish

Quoting: TheSHEEEPLet's be honest, over 90% of games you play exactly once, what good does it do you to own those after that? Nothing.

Not really, no. Almost every game I have ever played in my life I have come back to play again at some point later on. And for those few that I have not, I still very much value having the option to do so. I have never understood how people can find media to be a disposable as they do. Yes, I do find myself going back to old favourites way more often than I end up trying something new, but because of that I end up getting way more value out of the games and media that I do choose to engage with. Gaming for me is not about having one night stands.

I really don't get this.

Why would you replay a game that doesn't even offer replayability?
If you know the story, you know everything that will be coming, there will be nothing surprising or interesting.
If you have beaten the game, there will not be any new challenges to put yourself against.
If you have seen the world of the game, there will be nothing new to see.
Or, I don't know, maybe my memory is just better?

To me, replaying a game despite it not offering anything new would be like visiting the same holiday location every year.
Or reading the same book dozens of times.
What's the point? What new knowledge or skill is being gained?
I'm not trying to offend anyone (for once ;) ), I am just really irritated.
I play games to discover new worlds, new gameplays, improve my knowledge and my skills.

I'm like Captain Picard, discovering new worlds, expanding boundaries. I would wither inside if I was visiting the same planet every time like a freighter captain.

Obviously, there are games offering more replayability value, some you can go to almost endlessly (like EUIV, Mount & Blade, ToME4, etc.) but most really don't.
Or so little that it is barely worth another playthrough (like Pillars of Eternity - I can see trying out more than one character class, but certainly not all of them as the rest of the game will be identical).


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 20 June 2018 at 6:02 am UTC

Quoting: ShmerlHardcore crowd are ones that take said DRM and break it to make DRM-free torrent releases.

What comes to game piracy, p2p groups cracks only a fraction of all games. Cracked games are almost always cracked by warez scene groups and are shared originally only in their own "services" like highly secured ftp's etc.
What I'm saying, usually those who cracks drm from said games, doesn't make any torrent releases. Torrent releases are more like leaks from scene and that also means that not all scene cracked games comes to torrent.

GNU/Linux game pirating is a thing and thank God. For if it wasn't, I wouldn't be able to play the Steam games I have actually paid for…

Quoting: TheSHEEEPI really don't get this.

Why would you replay a game that doesn't even offer replayability?

And how about "Why would you reread a book that doesn't even offer rereadability?" :P
Different people have different tastes. You do not need to "get" their reasoning on this, just take for granted some actually enjoy replay the games of youth (like I, for example, sometimes replay "Fallout 2" despite beating it several times 10 years ago).

Maybe I ought to install Pop!_OS and enable popcon and make popcorn while reading this thread.

Anyway, DRM is one thing, but how about the fact you're running proprietary code you don't know what's doing even if you use GOG. If you're gonna be a hardliner, do it properly.