Feral Interactive have no plans to put their Linux ports on GOG

Quoting: jensSteam users do actively support DRM, thus they behave bad, thus they are bad. That feels kind-of not very good.

Not sure where or why you got such impression, that's surely not the case. While I consider such choice bad, it doesn't necessarily make people bad, people make wrong choices too and they can do something to improve it in this case.


Last edited by Shmerl on 20 June 2018 at 6:24 pm UTC

Quoting: ShmerlNot sure where why you got such impression, that's surely not the case.

Thank you.

Quoting: ShmerlWhile I consider such choice bad, it doesn't necessarily make people bad, people make wrong choices too and they can do something to improve it in this case.

It actually makes me kind-of sad to read again an implication that my choices are bad and that I need to improve.

Quoting: jensI completely agree with your analysis. Some value spreading Linux more important than DRM-free, other see DRM-free more important than bringing Linux to masses. All care for and love Linux.

Sure, and I for one am completely comfortable about saying that I sit in the latter camp. Which is part of the reason why I have grown more comfortable using WINE to play games over the past few years, and why I am actually quite indifferent when it comes to the likes of Feral. Ten years ago I might have felt different, but when Steam arrived I had to decide where I stood, and I decided to stand apart from it.

Quoting: GuestIdeally, my personal desire, is to see games no longer in support being open sourced. Doesn't mean data files are freely available, but it's really the only way to ensure games can continued to be played if there are large system changes. I know that's not likely to really happen, but it would be nice.

Which is also my ideal outcome as well. I just wish there was more I could do to help support it.


Last edited by Hamish on 20 June 2018 at 6:36 pm UTC

Quoting: jensIt actually makes me kind-of sad to read again an implication that my choices are bad and that I need to improve.

Well, how do you see separating the two (i.e DRM as bad, and then financially supporting such practice)?

It's like people using Facebook. It doesn't make people who use it bad, but it contributes to the erosion of privacy for instance, which is bad.


Last edited by Shmerl on 20 June 2018 at 6:28 pm UTC

Quoting: jensIt actually makes me kind-of sad to read again an implication that my choices are bad and that I need to improve.

I am sure quite a few Windows users say that about Linux users all the time, and not always without good reason.


Last edited by Hamish on 20 June 2018 at 6:36 pm UTC

Quoting: Hamish

Quoting: jensIt actually makes me kind-of sad to read again an implication that my choices are bad and that I need to improve.

I am sure quite a few Windows users say that about Linux users all the time, and not always without good reason.

Sorry, re-reading your posting several times, I don't get the essence. Would you mind to explain?


Last edited by jens on 20 June 2018 at 6:50 pm UTC

Quoting: jensSorry, re-reading your posting several times, I don't get the essence. Would you mind to explain?

Sure, no worries. It is just that Linux users very often tell Windows users that their choices are bad and that they need to improve, and I can't help but feel that a lot of the people upset with Shmerl would be fine seeing the exact same attitude expressed if he was arguing against Windows usage rather than using Steam.

Quoting: Hamish

Quoting: jensSorry, re-reading your posting several times, I don't get the essence. Would you mind to explain?

Sure, no worries. It is just that Linux users very often tell Windows users that their choices are bad and that they need to improve, and I can't help but feel that a lot of the people upset with Shmerl would be fine seeing the exact same attitude expressed if he was arguing against Windows usage rather than using Steam.

I can confirm that as a teenager, when I saw people's forum signatures boasting about Linux and/or Firefox (to put things into context, at the time I didn't see the point of using other media players than WMP, other browsers than IE, etc. since they were already installed and seemed to do the job), it irritated me rather than made me interested in learning more about open source. "I'm so much better than you" isn't a very effective way to get people to look into the way you do things and associate with you.

As a result, though I am now firmly committed to free software, I make it a point not to be insufferable about it. I'll discuss my preferences when asked, offer open source solutions to people's problems when they consult me, and I'm not above taking jabs at Microsoft for humor, but ultimately people make their own choices and all I can do is make sure they know about the alternatives to proprietary solutions.

I'd like to think I got the balance right since my friend who knows I've been using Linux exclusively for a number of years still asked me to help her shop for a Windows laptop. And I will, because that's what makes sense for her in her situation, and it's what she wants.

Quoting: Hamish

Quoting: jensSorry, re-reading your posting several times, I don't get the essence. Would you mind to explain?

Sure, no worries. It is just that Linux users very often tell Windows users that their choices are bad and that they need to improve, and I can't help but feel that a lot of the people upset with Shmerl would be fine seeing the exact same attitude expressed if he was arguing against Windows usage rather than using Steam.

Ah, thank you ;)

Yeah, guess you are right, certainly. Though me personally thinks that everybody should just use what fits them best. Most of my co-workers use Windows. They are happy using Windows, I'm happy because they know how to do their jobs efficiently. I'm using Linux at work, my co-workers are happy that I get my job done. We have nearly no discussions which is the best OS, just in the line of "this works slightly better on Linux, this works slightly better on Window". Imho both OS's have their strength and weaknesses, they is always more than one way leading to Rome. Diversity (until a certain degree) is good and welcome.

Same here. I think this is really just personal taste and preference. Fortunately Linux supports lots of use cases, everybody should just use it the way they want.


Last edited by jens on 20 June 2018 at 7:25 pm UTC

Shmerl, how do you feel about the revelation that your anti-DRM stance is so vehemently articulated and you're so immovable in your views that you're actually encouraging pro-DRM behaviour from others?

I'm massively anti-MS and I'd be extremely upset to learn that I was so fanatical about my hatred of them that I was actively encouraging my friends and colleagues to use or defend it more, instead of my intention - from them to discover and hopefully try Ubuntu.

That would encourage some harsh introspection, surely? It did with me. As Tim Minchin so eloquently put it in his Commencement Speech to the University of WA, you should define yourself by what you love. Don't get dragged down by the things you hate. Even if that means taking a knock or two on the way. God knows, MS knows how to hand out a punch, sadly, but I try not to let those define me. I can vouch that it's a much healthier way to live.

Quoting: scaineShmerl, how do you feel about the revelation that your anti-DRM stance is so vehemently articulated and you're so immovable in your views that you're actually encouraging pro-DRM behaviour from others?

See the last paragraph from Salvatos just two hours ago
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/feral-interactive-have-no-plans-to-put-their-linux-ports-on-gog.11987/comment_id=125993

Quoting: scaineShmerl, how do you feel about the revelation that your anti-DRM stance is so vehemently articulated and you're so immovable in your views that you're actually encouraging pro-DRM behaviour from others?

That would be a negative thing, but how do you see it as movable exactly? I.e. let's say you are arguing with proponents of overreaching policing, that it violates people's rights. They'll tell you that policing is more important than freedom, which logically leads for them to some kind of dictatorial approach. Agreeing to that or endorsing it is a slippery slope.


Last edited by Shmerl on 20 June 2018 at 7:50 pm UTC

Quoting: jens

Quoting: scaineShmerl, how do you feel about the revelation that your anti-DRM stance is so vehemently articulated and you're so immovable in your views that you're actually encouraging pro-DRM behaviour from others?

See the last paragraph from Salvatos just two hours ago
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/feral-interactive-have-no-plans-to-put-their-linux-ports-on-gog.11987/comment_id=125993

Indeed, that comment is what led me to make my comment. I had exactly that situation in work just last week when I my harsh critique of Microsoft's latest bullshit (tying Windows Hello to use MS Authenticator and deliberately breaking compatibility with the recognised standard to ensure that Google Auth doesn't work) actually drove my colleagues to actually defend the behaviour and, I suspect, hardening their resolve to push this shitty deal on to our staff. I helped that happen. Go me. Even worse, I broke my own promise. I ragged on MS for being dicks, instead of trying to convince my colleagues that the standards-based approach was best. My default position was negativity and had the opposite effect to what I'd hoped.

So yeah, we can be extremely destructive with this stuff.

I agree with positive approach idea. So you propose to avoid answering any questions like "why is this or that bad"?


Last edited by Shmerl on 20 June 2018 at 8:04 pm UTC

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: scaineShmerl, how do you feel about the revelation that your anti-DRM stance is so vehemently articulated and you're so immovable in your views that you're actually encouraging pro-DRM behaviour from others?

That would be a negative thing, but how do you see it as movable exactly? I.e. let's say you are arguing with proponents of overreaching policing, that it violates people's rights. They'll tell you that policing is more important than freedom, which logically leads for them to some kind of dictatorial approach. Agreeing to that or endorsing it is a slippery slope.

But no-one is suggesting that you agree or endorse DRM, definitely. My point is that you're making assumptions and in some cases even attacking the people that do agree to or endorse some limited form of DRM. You might be right that this is a slippery slope, but you won't help change their minds by telling them that they're idiots for doing so. These people might be potential allies, and now they've hardening their resolve to continue using, say, SteamDRM, because it puts them in opposition you (and in their view, SteamDRM is so invisible to be not part of this debate anyway).

So, first, the more you try to win a battle that way, the more you push people away. And second, don't attack DRM, and instead tell people why DRM-free is so much better.

The difficulty you'll face is that, like giving up Windows, embracing a DRM-free existence is all about sacrifice. Sure, some things are better once you do it, but a lot of it sacrifice. That's a hard sell. Worse, this is GamingOnLinux. It's a site full of people who have ALREADY made a sacrifice to give up Windows (sure, not everyone here has, but you get the idea). So that's an EVEN HARDER sell. But my main point is that you should sell it, rather than shit on other people's views and way of life. Because people respond far better to enthusiasm and positivity than criticism of their lifestyle choices and core beliefs.

I honestly am worried for Liam's DB server. It's gonna explode!


Jokes aside.
It would be fine for the old titles to be stuck as Steam-only, if Feral did release future ones to more than just Steam (no stores mentioned!).
Well that or push for Valve to finally add 64bit client.
Either floats my boat, really.

And I don't see how would anyone be affected from this, to go like crazy about it.
Though I suppose somebody will. I start to think that no matter what, some people will always act like crazy.


Last edited by bolokanar on 22 June 2018 at 1:22 pm UTC

Quoting: ShmerlI agree with positive approach idea. So you propose to avoid answering any questions like "why is this or that bad"?

I think that can be framed positively too though.

QuoteSteam is bad because they can take away your entire games collection for little-to-no reason and then it's in your hands to fight for it back.

vs

QuoteGOG is awesome because everything they sell is DRM-free. That means that they have no control over my games collection, whatsoever.

Just focus on the positive.


Last edited by scaine on 20 June 2018 at 8:17 pm UTC

Quoting: scaineShmerl, how do you feel about the revelation that your anti-DRM stance is so vehemently articulated and you're so immovable in your views that you're actually encouraging pro-DRM behaviour from others?

I'm massively anti-MS and I'd be extremely upset to learn that I was so fanatical about my hatred of them that I was actively encouraging my friends and colleagues to use or defend it more, instead of my intention - from them to discover and hopefully try Ubuntu.

That would encourage some harsh introspection, surely? It did with me. As Tim Minchin so eloquently put it in his Commencement Speech to the University of WA, you should define yourself by what you love. Don't get dragged down by the things you hate. Even if that means taking a knock or two on the way. God knows, MS knows how to hand out a punch, sadly, but I try not to let those define me. I can vouch that it's a much healthier way to live.

While I tend to agree with your sentiments, I find it weird to be referring to Tim Minchin of all people to endorse it. Don't get me wrong, I love Tim Minchin's stuff--but mainly because the sarcasm is so brilliantly scathing.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyWhile I tend to agree with your sentiments, I find it weird to be referring to Tim Minchin of all people to endorse it. Don't get me wrong, I love Tim Minchin's stuff--but mainly because the sarcasm is so brilliantly scathing.

Tim is a bit (okay, a lot) controversial, but that speech, made back in 2013 (here's Tim's own site was pretty pivotal for me. It made me realise how badly certain things were affecting me, things that I had very little control over, and that I had to move on, take a more positive approach to the things that motivated me. It was the same year I finally ditched Windows, so hearing Tim's take on life, it's meaninglessness (is that a word?) and how you should therefore fill it (not fillet), really restored a good portion of my enthusiasm for tech. And life generally, since tech is a big part of mine - work and play in fact.

It's been a bumpy ride, but that speech was truly inspirational for me. I try to live by it every day. Don't always manage, but hey ho. It's all about balance.

Or to throw in a little Zen:

QuoteI don't know where I'm going, the river can decide.
It's not about the destination, it's the glory of the ride

Don't want adding more petrol to bonfire but I think all of us including me asking wrong question.

Instead of asking:

QuoteFeral, Why you not distribute your games on GOG?

We should asking:

QuoteFeral, How to help you to distribute your games on GOG?

My opinion people, feel free to disagree.

p/s: Damn, my poem failed to cooldown the discussion.