Facepunch are no longer selling the Linux version of the survival game Rust (updated)

Quoting: Whitewolfe80As for the throw away community line we have this every so often it goes back to once again the linux die hards that think they throw f bombs and act like Stallman or Linus.

1. No it does not.
2. Had it occurred to you that that is, itself, a rather inflammatory and offensive comment?
3. Do you in fact have any idea how Stallman acts?

Quoting: GoboI was interested in Rust years ago. But I read about toxic players ruining the fun in game repeatedly, so I never bothered to actually buy the game or join any giveaways. Those toxic players cannot be concentrated on Linux only, there are a lot of idiots on other platforms as well. And as far as I understand Rust used cross platform play, so judging by the percentage of Linux gamers there have to be lots of bad apples in the Windows users group.

And I don't believe Linux users are more vocal than users of other platforms in general. But I do believe that lack of QA leads to more pain for those users which fuels the flames. If your product has different quality on different platforms, those users will sound off accordingly. Ask developers with great Linux support if they think of us as toxic and they will tell you otherwise.

Eat your own dog food.

Completely agree with you, the game has been broken on windows many times and I'm pretty sure Windows players has rant Facepunch too but Garry is just mad on Linux.
Obviously he expect people to be better than him, not being angry that the game wasn't on sale on Linux anymore and they didn't say anything. Way to go Facepunch.

Also I didnt know we can use the word "HATE" to describe a situation when someone isn't agree with our arguments.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: GuestEr, the bugs are in Unity. That is down to the Unity devs to solve. This is like saying if you have problems driving your car, you should become a mechanic and fix it.

[…]
If Ford uses a transmission from Dana corp and that transmission is crap in the car you buy, you don't call Dana about it, you call Ford about it.

And even though Dana is responsible for the broken transmission (or Unity is responsible for the broken state of the engine), Ford is still responsible for creating and delivering a broken car that uses broken parts (or, the game dev using a broken Unity build, for delivering a broken game).

When you do any software whatsoever you don’t just happily upgrade every dependency you use and push that to production. You first check if the new versions don’t break the software, and only if they don’t, you release a new version with upgraded deps. If the new version introduces bugs that break your software and you cannot fix it yourself, you file a bug report and wait for the fix.

Genuine question, I know Unity engine reputation never had being better but...

Why Unity reputation are getting worse since in the last 2-3 months?
I'm talking about the whole (outside Linux) gaming community in general.

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Perkeleen_Vittupää"Linux is a second class citizen, we don't run it internally because only 17 people use it"

https://mobile.twitter.com/garrynewman/status/615071229947564032?lang=en

As I said before, he's blunt and sarcastic (and no that's not toxic), repeatedly digging up such a thing from years ago to get people all riled up isn't helpful.

Also, there's no need to instantly jump to grab your pitchforks guys. Like I said, we don't really know their reasoning, the issues with Unity and GPU drivers are quite literally out of their hands and it wouldn't surprise me if those are the causes of them doing this.

I don't think it's good that we found out like this, I do think they should have announced something when it happened or just after and not leave it up to us to let people know.

Oh, I'll tell you his reasoning, it's actually pretty simple. The only reason he exported a Linux version of Rust in the first place was because of the off chance SteamOS *might* have gone somewhere. Since it didn't/hasn't, he doesn't see the point in continuing support. Now, Garry has a chip on his shoulder as far as Linux and the community goes, so he's included some whinging about us with the announcement.


Last edited by Dolus on 28 July 2018 at 8:11 pm UTC

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Perkeleen_Vittupää"Linux is a second class citizen, we don't run it internally because only 17 people use it"

https://mobile.twitter.com/garrynewman/status/615071229947564032?lang=en

As I said before, he's blunt and sarcastic (and no that's not toxic), repeatedly digging up such a thing from years ago to get people all riled up isn't helpful.

Also, there's no need to instantly jump to grab your pitchforks guys. Like I said, we don't really know their reasoning, the issues with Unity and GPU drivers are quite literally out of their hands and it wouldn't surprise me if those are the causes of them doing this.

I don't think it's good that we found out like this, I do think they should have announced something when it happened or just after and not leave it up to us to let people know.

Oh, I'll tell you his reasoning, it's actually pretty simple. The only reason he exported a Linux version of Rust in the first place was because of the off chance SteamOS *might* have gone somewhere. Since it didn't/hasn't, he doesn't see the point in continuing support. Now, Garry has a chip on his shoulder as far as Linux and the community goes, so he's included some whinging about us with the announcement.

Their main reasoning was already explained pretty clearly.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: rapakivBut I never seen so much hate in GOL as in this thread, relax, life is short, enjoy it

Hate? Really?! What bemuses me about this discussion actually is that the reaction is more extreme than the dislike of the actual developer. I don't really have a dog in this fight.

Really? What boggles my mind is that all the negativity comes from people that don't have a dog on this fight. The people that actually do play the game are understanding and sympathetic to the dev's decision, go figure...

Lol at Gary's response. You made your money, quit your whining. It's cool that they're still supporting the Linux version for now, though. That's more than I expected.

Quoting: svartalfThere's a reason I'm...unlikely...to use Unity for any game I'm fielding anytime soon. And yes, there was more to that remark than meets the eye. ;-D

Are you perchance working on Scavengers?

I've kinda noticed something about the Linux gaming community. I can't say for certain that it's coming from the same people; any community is bound to have a diversity of opinions. That said, the overall reaction to developers supporting (in varying degrees) or not supporting our platform seems rather inconsistent. On the one hand, you have developers who can't be arsed to support us officially in any way whatsoever, and the reaction to that game just happening to work on Linux is an overall positive one, like Linux gamers are just glad to have a bone thrown their way. And then you have situations like this where the overwhelming reaction is one of "if you're gonna support us at all, then do it *right* or bugger off forever!" Quite frankly, I'm not convinced, given our apparent permanent minority market share status, the community as a whole has the bargaining power to act that way.

Linux in general just gets the short end of the stick for proprietary anything, and in general I feel that using Linux on the desktop is taking your life into your own hands (in both the good and bad sense). It just seems more logical to expect to have to get things working as a community or on your own for any game regardless of whether or not it's "supported" for your OS (and if you use anything other than a recent Ubuntu or Mint, then you're not likely to be officially supported anyway). So I just don't really "get" being upset when a game is put out on Linux but it doesn't get Windows parity all the time.

I have zero horse in the this race, but find it hilarious that the dev implies that:

1) Only the Linux community is toxic (eyeroll). Has he been in, well, almost any other Windows gaming forum at all for the sophomoric, hateful, entitled views there? Hahahaha....

2) Only Linux is a broken platform (eyeroll again). There are so many broken games, compromised engines, etc etc on Windows and, well, every other platform that to pretend it's only us is absurd.

Quoting: tonRGenuine question, I know Unity engine reputation never had being better but...

Why Unity reputation are getting worse since in the last 2-3 months?
I'm talking about the whole (outside Linux) gaming community in general.

Speaking only from what I've seen, I think Unity has had some bugs that have been show stoppers for a few Linux games in particular. For example, Tannenberg, which I love, sadly hasn't worked since the NVIDIA 390 drivers for me, and that was back in, like, April. And for those of us using DXVK, 396 series drivers are required. I think Unity has been slow (if at all?) to respond...

Quoting: mulletdeathI've kinda noticed something about the Linux gaming community. I can't say for certain that it's coming from the same people; any community is bound to have a diversity of opinions. That said, the overall reaction to developers supporting (in varying degrees) or not supporting our platform seems rather inconsistent. On the one hand, you have developers who can't be arsed to support us officially in any way whatsoever, and the reaction to that game just happening to work on Linux is an overall positive one, like Linux gamers are just glad to have a bone thrown their way. And then you have situations like this where the overwhelming reaction is one of "if you're gonna support us at all, then do it *right* or bugger off forever!" Quite frankly, I'm not convinced, given our apparent permanent minority market share status, the community as a whole has the bargaining power to act that way.

No, definitely this case is out of your binary system. This guy didn't give a good QA so his product was bad in one of the supported OS he use to promote. Is this an isolated case? Of course not, but the problem is that he keeps taunting the community in order to project his failures in others, when he is a big part of the problem.

In the other hand, why would us as costumers and community can't ask for quality product? It's not just about to play the games as I would on Windows (If that the sole idea, I can also do it using wine), it's more about matching as much as possible the user experience in both OS. Giving the same experience is what some day will make Linux the prefered desktop platform. If we accept that for using some software we have to make specials scripts or workarounds by ourselves with devs that doesn't give a shit about our problems, that it's what takes us far away of the prime objetive, and that's why we shall say "go fuck yourself, you toad" to anyone that takes users money, do a mediocre work and doesn't take charge of the problem he helps to create. To make it clear: giving the *right* support doesn't mean to give a bug free software (we should all know that is impossible such thing), but it means to give some kind of support, even if it's just an anounce that mentions the problems.

Sorry guys, It is not about community, this is all about one guy being a jerk. And I don't know why many here try to justify (or protect) him of what he says against us. The way he manages his product is awful, and Linux community can't be blamed of this outcome. So please, stop bringing the "community issue" that Garret use as scapegoat, we definitely are not the problem in this case.

Quoting: GuestEr, the bugs are in Unity. That is down to the Unity devs to solve. This is like saying if you have problems driving your car, you should become a mechanic and fix it.

Yes the bugs are in Unity, but I'm not expecting him to fix them himself, it's his job to report the bugs to Unity & get them to fix them.

I wouldn't think of him as a mechanic either, he's more like a used car salesman that can't open the bonnet of the car he's sold us to check if all the engine parts are in the right places.

Quoting: nitroflow

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: rapakivBut I never seen so much hate in GOL as in this thread, relax, life is short, enjoy it

Hate? Really?! What bemuses me about this discussion actually is that the reaction is more extreme than the dislike of the actual developer. I don't really have a dog in this fight.

Really? What boggles my mind is that all the negativity comes from people that don't have a dog on this fight. The people that actually do play the game are understanding and sympathetic to the dev's decision, go figure...

Hrm. First, I notice you've redefined how I was using that phrase, such that your comment probably would have been better as a standalone than a reply to me.
Second, really? Have you been reading the same thread I have? I'd say it's pretty clear that some of the people who are bothered are in fact people who play the game. Others aren't, but your point is simply wrong. Also meant to be snide, far as I can tell. You can contribute to or detract from a conversation in two ways, content or tone; pity you chose to subtract on both fronts.

Quoting: GuestYou cannot expect game devs to be able to jump in and fix bugs in Unity. That is like expecting everyone who can drive a car to be a mechanic. It simply does not work that way. You also cant expect them to delay their major sales platform for the minor ones. It wont happen.

You are right. We seen same thing with Everspace, they delayed Linux release because of UE4 bugs. Yet somehow people praise Everspace developers and hate Garry. Why is that? Proper communication is the key.

If, for example, Linux ports of TW2 would be released in the same way (with proper message about initial quality of the port, under alpha/beta branch, etc.) there would be much less backlash. However, since there was no such communication, Linux gaming community had it's very own "Batman: Arkham Knight" moment.

Again, what is similar in all three cases? (Rust, TW2, Batman: Arkham Knight) Lack of proper communication about quality of the port. And it have nothing to do with engine bugs, port bugs, game bugs and especially - it have nothing to do with community. Lack of proper communication is only publisher/developer fault.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: nitroflow

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: rapakivBut I never seen so much hate in GOL as in this thread, relax, life is short, enjoy it

Hate? Really?! What bemuses me about this discussion actually is that the reaction is more extreme than the dislike of the actual developer. I don't really have a dog in this fight.

Really? What boggles my mind is that all the negativity comes from people that don't have a dog on this fight. The people that actually do play the game are understanding and sympathetic to the dev's decision, go figure...

Hrm. First, I notice you've redefined how I was using that phrase, such that your comment probably would have been better as a standalone than a reply to me.
Second, really? Have you been reading the same thread I have? I'd say it's pretty clear that some of the people who are bothered are in fact people who play the game. Others aren't, but your point is simply wrong. Also meant to be snide, far as I can tell. You can contribute to or detract from a conversation in two ways, content or tone; pity you chose to subtract on both fronts.

I've been very much reading the same thread, I believe, and the comment wasn't meant to be snide. It's really my take on this thread.

I replied to you because I do agree with you about this being an extreme reaction but that's not really what I find surprising at all, it's the people that don't seem to have the game(or if they have it they don't mention it anywhere) and the ones that were planning to buy it(which they still can), that are behind this extremism.

In hindsight I should have expanded on the "go figure...", what I meant by it was that those who have mentioned playing it actively are aware of the issues and thus have a better understanding of things, that's why they aren't crying bloody murder, unlike mostly everyone else.

PS: This whole reaction also started before the devs had a chance to comment on this.


Last edited by nitroflow on 29 July 2018 at 10:59 am UTC

Quoting: nitroflow... and the ones that were planning to buy it(which they still can),

So it is still sold for Linux, is it installable for new customers?

Why I ask: I wanted to try it out with some friends at the end of the year. We're all on Linux. Not all friends have the game already. But they could still buy it now?

Quoting: 1xok

Quoting: nitroflow... and the ones that were planning to buy it(which they still can),

So it is still sold for Linux, is it installable for new customers?

Why I ask: I wanted to try it out with some friends at the end of the year. We're all on Linux. Not all friends have the game already. But they could still buy it now?

From everything I've read so far, yes, it just means if when things break they don't have to support you because they're removed the steam os logo. It also means you have to go to properties and select the linux branch after purchase for it to install, like every other game that has an unsupported or testing branch linux build.


Last edited by nitroflow on 29 July 2018 at 12:56 pm UTC

Quoting: Kristian

Quoting: Whitewolfe80

Quoting: KristianWhitewolfe80, is it okay for Garry to act basically like he is accusing the Linux community of doing?

He not accusing he is outright saying it and is he wrong as there is plenty of shade being thrown his way on twitter

I will grant that for the sake of argument. But is it okay for him but not everyone else? If so, why?

Edit:

It just seems to me that Garry Newman is expecting much more of everyone else than of himself.

No i get it and he should absolutely practice what he is preaching.

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: Whitewolfe80As for the throw away community line we have this every so often it goes back to once again the linux die hards that think they throw f bombs and act like Stallman or Linus.
It comes as shock to them no doubt when it doesnt actually work its the reason nvidia wont embrace open source for linux is his constant rants and actively literally telling the linux team to "fuck off" in person. I ll break it down you cant do stuff like that not if you actually want people to develop games for your platform,swearing death threats etc for not bringing a game to linux.

I think you mix a lot of stuff here. First off, Torvalds rant's has a reason and he explain them quite often: he wants to be completelly sure that you understand that he doesn't like what you're doing. He can't be polite when you're doing something wrong and that's why he said "Nvidia, fuck you" years ago. Funny things is that time proven he was right, as you can see how AMD open source Linux driver end up being as good as Nvidia (if not far better). So, Nvidia doesn't embrace foss driver not because of the community, but because they want to do everything as they want, even if they do it the wrong way.

And dammit, you have no idea how much we rant to AMD with their catalyst drivers. We really fucking hated them and we really make them notice how shitty they were. But now that they are doing things as should be done, try to find anyone ranting against them. Try to find someone that doesn't recommend buying a AMD gpu to others Linux users (yes, even being slightly expensive than Nvidia counterpart).

The community has always had two coin face, and definitely nobody rants to the devs that does things right.

But my point is it doesnt matter how much Torvalds rant have a reason you cant rant period not in public feel free to say what you want behind closed doors i know people love he is blunt but business world that is a no go and it scares away big fish