The Steam Linux market share for June was 0.52% as Steam is still growing rather rapidly

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: qptain Nemo

Quoting: GuestWhen Mojang states it will reduce support for 7th Gen. consoles because they don't add up to 5% of those active in its 144,000,000 user base, that tells one a lot about how these elephants move in rooms.

https://minecraft.net/en-us/article/update-aquatic-coming-legacy-console-editions

Linux needs its own network-effect augmented category killer, much like DOOM (1993) was for DOS. Lord GabeN was wise to hinge Windows 95 on gaming compatibility and Gates was wise to listen, as Windows compared to Apple and Commodore back in 1993 makes today's Linux look like a flawless blue diamond.

However, just as the highly-coveted and super-sexy Apple II merely became "the thing" that ran the smash-hit business app VisiCalc, and DOS was just "the thing" for the exploding PC office and gaming market, so Linux must become "the thing" in its own network-advantaged right. What that is, ultimately, is anyone's guess.

Right now, "the thing" is just about any workable Win64 platform that can launch PUBG or Fortnite.

“Computers aren’t the thing. They’re the thing that gets us to the thing.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQLbi4VXYcA

I think you're right.

Do you think it's possible to achieve that without exclusivity? Must the network-effect augmented category killer be platform exclusive?

Good question! It's hard to argue with the logic of Nintendo and Sony welding their exclusives to the hardware. But with the network effect, you need enough glowing hot coals to keep those fires burning. There is nothing intrinsically better there. It's just (feet-to-the-fire) lock-in. PS Vita and Wii U proved how tenuous and fleeting brand loyalties can be.

On the other hand, MS breaking Xbox games out of their hardware jail was an interesting move. Clearly, MS is ready to dispense its gaming goods for its gaming services. (PS NOW and GeForce NOW seem to want the same; still exclusive, but less perennial flower pot and more walled-in garden.) Aside from 4K backward-compatible game titles and certain HDR video advantages on the XBone, I can't see how PC Gaming and Xbox don't eventually merge under the same banner within the big box/web stores. Again, it's an interesting gambit, especially considering how far Dell bent over to make the Steam Machine a reality in those venues. MS might be able to claim victory from the jaws of defeat there. :-/

I realized when writing that post, when it comes to pwning the competition, Linux wrote the book! The fact that WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) Ubuntu terminal console even exists is a testament to that. Unfortunately, due again to the network effect, tools and workflow, game production still favors the installed-base platforms. As I've stated elsewhere, I'd like to see how the meta "game within a game" Dreams fares on the PS4. If that takes off, stand-alone hardware platforms seem pretty much over to me.

Obviously, a closed-hardware platform is only good for a limited life-cycle, only to be reborn in DOS Boxes, ROMS and Wine. In the long run, the real question would seem to be loyalty. Take the home arcade-machine enthusiasts for example. Is it more important that the guts are running a Windows or CentOS box or that the Tempest knob and ROM are authentic? [ibid. VisiCalc and software as a driver of hardware sales.] I would say the latter. In that respect, Valve is waaaaaaaaay ahead of the curve. (Just think, the product code from a set of Half-Life 3-1/2" floppies for Windows PC from twenty years ago can still be used today to download and play that licensed copy in front of a television in 4K, with a controller, on Linux. <---Now THAT'S loyalty! Try that with Halo.)

Assuming the "Movies Anywhere"/"TV Everywhere"/Brand-X NOW/Brand-Y NOW/Brand-Z NOW phenomenon continues, if Linux can—somehow—become the de facto standard for games development in the cloud (be it Dota 2 Reborn, Valve's VR Destinations, or Twitch and Lumberyard from Amazon), I would be hard-pressed to envision how it doesn't dominate once the brain-trust and mindshare move to Linux's home-field advantage.

It seems to me that the bottom line is that for the kind of growth we're talking about ultimately you need an advantage and an advantage can't exist if it's not unique to a specific thing, otherwise how can it be an advantage? If something is shared between operating systems then the network effect is also shared, and self-saturation might be in full effect, making so the network effect benefits things that are more popular proportionally more. Like I'd argue that WSL as damning of an admission of inferiority as it may be, is still a victory for Windows as it provides more reasons to use Windows, not Linux. This makes any methods that don't rely on exclusivity rare and precious and I wish I knew more of them. I suppose being able to direct the momentum of the network effect, that is, putting a particular option in a favorable light, could be effective.

Quoting: tonR

QuoteThere's still a lot of ways Linux gaming needs to improve of course. It seems pulling in users from Asia would probably help quite a lot, but for that we need the heavy-hitting titles they seem to love like PUBG.

That's impossible to do with todays smartphone craziness in Asia. Significant majority of us are now rarely gaming on PC anymore. Everything smartphone.

I don't think that is valid.
There is just no serious gaming on mobile phones, just casual nonsense and time-wasters making up 90%+ of the mobile "gaming" market.
And it makes sense, of course. There's just not much else to be done with such a tiny screen, doesn't matter how much their capacity increases.
Good luck playing games like Starcraft 2 or Counter Strike on mobile ;)

There will always be a market for proper PC gaming, as there is simply no alternative.
Consoles are nothing more than subsidized PCs and I estimate both markets will kind of merge at some point.

I also don't think that the mobile market has harmed PC gaming.
In the west, that myth popped up in the 2000s, but is pretty much debunked by now.
Just because one think is growing like crazy (mobile), doesn't mean the other thing (PC/console) is falling - merely growing smaller.

Quoting: tonR

QuoteThere's still a lot of ways Linux gaming needs to improve of course. It seems pulling in users from Asia would probably help quite a lot, but for that we need the heavy-hitting titles they seem to love like PUBG.

That's impossible to do with todays smartphone craziness in Asia. Significant majority of us are now rarely gaming on PC anymore. Everything smartphone.

Hang on a minute--the article we're discussing around relates to the masses of new Asian Steam users, mostly playing PUBG, in such numbers that (since virtually none of 'em use Linux) they're torpedoing the % share of Linux on Steam. So are you saying all those people don't exist? Surely if them not using Linux is sufficient to seriously drop the Linux share, them using Linux at least as much as everyone else would make it not drop, which I think could reasonably be considered "helping quite a lot".

I have no doubt that lots of Asians play games on their phones (just like everyone else). Makes me kind of glad Android uses Vulkan. Doesn't mean nobody's playing any games at home or in PC-bangs or whatever they call them.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPThere is just no serious gaming on mobile phones, just casual nonsense and time-wasters making up 90%+ of the mobile "gaming" market.
And it makes sense, of course. There's just not much else to be done with such a tiny screen, doesn't matter how much their capacity increases.

Tell that to my son happily deathmatching in PixelGun on his phone or to thousands of Fortnite players :)

eSport on mobile - not (yet?). Serious gaming - sure.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPIn the west, that myth popped up in the 2000s, but is pretty much debunked by now.
Just because one think is growing like crazy (mobile), doesn't mean the other thing (PC/console) is falling - merely growing smaller.

Look graph images at Malaysian Communications And Multimedia Commission (MCMC) report, "INTERNET USERS SURVEY 2017":


**Credit To IAMK Learning Center ( iamk.com.my ) for cropping-out this image from MCMC PDF.**

Here's the quote from MCMC report, page 10 and 11

QuoteSmartphone remained the most popular means for users to access the Internet (89.4%) making the country a mobile-oriented society. Additionally, in 2016, there were 28.5 million mobile broadband subscriptions compared to 2.5 million fixed broadband subscriptions.

However, Internet access from other mobile devices saw a declining trend. For instance, the use of portable personal computer such as netbook, notebook and laptop to access Internet has dropped to 36.3% (2015: 46.0%), while tablet declined to 18.0% (2015: 24.8%) and feature phone to 9.4 (2015:15.8%). On the contrary, access through smart TV and TV streaming box inclined, albeit the little take up. A total of 6.7% of Internet users has been online via Smart TV in 2016, compared to only 1.9% in 2014. The percentage of accessing Internet using TV streaming box increased to 5.6% in 2016, from 4.2% in 2015.

[[PDF]source: MCMC](https://www.mcmc.gov.my/skmmgovmy/media/General/pdf/MCMC-Internet-Users-Survey-2017.pdf)
IAMK Learning Centre article

Before commenting, it's better you read MCMC reports first . I'm human, probably I missed somewhere important infomations.

**************************

Quoting: Purple Library GuyHang on a minute--the article we're discussing around relates to the masses of new Asian Steam users, mostly playing PUBG, in such numbers that (since virtually none of 'em use Linux) they're torpedoing the % share of Linux on Steam. So are you saying all those people don't exist? Surely if them not using Linux is sufficient to seriously drop the Linux share, them using Linux at least as much as everyone else would make it not drop, which I think could reasonably be considered "helping quite a lot".

First, I want to clarify a very simple thing. Asia (the continent) ≠ China, China ≠ Southeast Asia (SEA). I write this because I do not want you to be confused as SEA gaming community are super diverse. To give you perspective, Ragnarok: Online still have players base and that game was launched when I was in primary school AFAIK.

Back to question, first look at concurrence PUBG players (from SteamDB), for last 6++ months. If you look closely, 1/2 of total peak player base already gone. For two reasons:

1. Fortnite
2. PUBG MOBILE

PUBG mobile is free-to-play and on smartphone. Smartphone generally is dominant in Asia. So....

Regarding Linux in general, most school in Malaysia already adopted Chromebook since 2013-2014 (even do the deployment are slow as f**K Malaysian way and also cronyism problems). While generally I (and some of GoL people) do not like Chromebook because of G+++, but for exposure on Linux, it's a good way to promoting Linux.

***********************

Quoting: skinnyrafeSport on mobile - not (yet?). Serious gaming - sure.

Already had. Also, if you've Astro (only satellite tv provider in Malaysia) subscription, you'll get eGG Network channel for free. eGG is e-sport channel (only thing I watched on traditional TV since 2017).

Malaysia Esports League website

EDIT: Fixed a link and added some sentences.


Last edited by tonR on 5 July 2018 at 12:07 am UTC

Considering the initial proposition was that "pulling in users from Asia would probably help quite a lot [to improve Linux gaming]", I don't think the proportion of handheld usage in Asia contradicts that. 30% PC users in Asia still represents more people than the entire population (not gamers or even PC users) of North America and Europe combined. To me, that looks like a significant pool of potential users to try and include.

(According to figures from Wikipedia's List of continents by population

Quoting: SalvatosConsidering the initial proposition was that "pulling in users from Asia would probably help quite a lot [to improve Linux gaming]", I don't think the proportion of handheld usage in Asia contradicts that. 30% PC users in Asia still represents more people than the entire population (not gamers or even PC users) of North America and Europe combined. To me, that looks like a significant pool of potential users to try and include.

Totally agree. But that's the problem. PC/x86 platform is already saturated and starts to decline. And in Asia generally PC = Windows, Windows = PC (until recently everyone already starts to accepted Chromebook considered as PC).

As human, it's hard for us to change our old habit, old perspective, accept new changes or anything that "we used to". That's why promoting Linux is hard. And adding fuel to "Linux is hard", that's lots of stigmatized on Linux for example it cannot rendered Asian characters such as Thai, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic-based and so on.

On bright side, since Windows XP EOL and especially after ransomware attacks, some public and private institution/firms in Malaysia already started experimenting Linux for their office use (according to some friends). IDK what's result but that's a good thing.

Ok guys, off to work...

Quoting: skinnyraf

Quoting: TheSHEEEPThere is just no serious gaming on mobile phones, just casual nonsense and time-wasters making up 90%+ of the mobile "gaming" market.
And it makes sense, of course. There's just not much else to be done with such a tiny screen, doesn't matter how much their capacity increases.

Tell that to my son happily deathmatching in PixelGun on his phone or to thousands of Fortnite players :)

eSport on mobile - not (yet?). Serious gaming - sure.

I feel honestly sorry for your son if he considers PixelGun serious gaming. Not because of mobile, but because of the simplistic nature of the game. Then again, he might just be very young. I know I played lots of shit happily when I was.

You see, there is a reason cross-play between PC and mobile is limited, if allowed at all.
PC players annihilate mobile (and console) players, simply due to better input and average skill level. I could probably duke it out 1vs10 against mobile players and come out winning. I don't see this ever changing if mobile doesn't evolve to the capacity and input capability of a PC with keyboard (or something similar) and mouse - and if mobile ever does reach that, there is no difference any more between it and PC.

And because of this, PC gaming will always stay relevant to the people interested in more than just casual stuff and esports of simplistic games.

Quoting: tonR

Quoting: TheSHEEEPIn the west, that myth popped up in the 2000s, but is pretty much debunked by now.
Just because one think is growing like crazy (mobile), doesn't mean the other thing (PC/console) is falling - merely growing smaller.

Look graph images at Malaysian Communications And Multimedia Commission (MCMC) report, "INTERNET USERS SURVEY 2017":

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**Credit To IAMK Learning Center ( iamk.com.my ) for cropping-out this image from MCMC PDF.**

Here's the quote from MCMC report, page 10 and 11

Fully irrelevant.
This is about internet usage. If I was purely interested in internet usage, I also wouldn't bother to buy a PC.
It makes absolute sense that some of those who were primarily using their PC for things easily done on mobile nowadays switch to mobile.

But we're talking about gaming here.
If you can afford a proper big screen and a PC to go with it, you won't buy a tiny-screened mobile device for the purpose of gaming.
Depending on your needs, you'll go for a PC or subsidized PC with questionable input (aka console).


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 5 July 2018 at 9:11 am UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEPI feel honestly sorry for your son if he considers PixelGun serious gaming. Not because of mobile, but because of the simplistic nature of the game. Then again, he might just be very young. I know I played lots of shit happily when I was.

You see, there is a reason cross-play between PC and mobile is limited, if allowed at all.
PC players annihilate mobile (and console) players, simply due to better input and average skill level. I could probably duke it out 1vs10 against mobile players and come out winning. I don't see this ever changing if mobile doesn't evolve to the capacity and input capability of a PC with keyboard (or something similar) and mouse - and if mobile ever does reach that, there is no difference any more between it and PC.

And because of this, PC gaming will always stay relevant to the people interested in more than just casual stuff and esports of simplistic games.

LOL, so you have just stated that the only serious gaming is on PC, because of precision of control. Consoles are not serious, because a K/M will annihilate a controller, and mobile platforms are an absolute joke because of lack of precision of touch screen control.

That's a pretty narrow definition of "serious gaming" and Sony would probably laugh at it. For me, a guy who traveled the whole world to capture all Pokemon was quite a serious gamer - and Pokemon Go is definitely a mobile game. And anyway, Fortnite is crossplay mobile vs Switch vs Xbox One vs PC.

Quoting: skinnyrafLOL, so you have just stated that the only serious gaming is on PC, because of precision of control. Consoles are not serious, because a K/M will annihilate a controller, and mobile platforms are an absolute joke because of lack of precision of touch screen control.

Your reading comprehension seems limited. That is not what I said.

Though mobile platforms certainly are an absolute joke for most games, just look at the latest EA Command & Conquer release and compare that with what that series used to be. If that is not a sad joke, I don't know what it is.
Console vs. PC is really only a difference in input methods. But mobile has a tiny screen, there just isn't much you can do with such a small space that couldn't be done much better if you had a bigger screen.

And obviously, touching a screen can never be as accurate as moving a mouse cursor, restricting the possibilities further.
This is just simple logic.

There are games or even whole genres that can work on all platforms equally well. For example, I really don't get why Hasbro/WoTC do not finally do a real port of MTGO to all platforms. Oh, well...

Quoting: skinnyrafFor me, a guy who traveled the whole world to capture all Pokemon was quite a serious gamer - and Pokemon Go is definitely a mobile game.

Pokemon Go is barely a game. More of a toy.
Just because you can play with something, doesn't make it a game.

Quoting: skinnyrafAnd anyway, Fortnite is crossplay mobile vs Switch vs Xbox One vs PC.

From the Fortnite FAQ itself:

QuoteI’m on PC, when do I play against cross-platform players?

Mobile, PS4, or Xbox players who are in a cross-platform party may appear as enemies in your match.

“Fill” parties are same platform as you.

You will only play against PC players if you are playing Solo on PC.

You should maybe inform yourself before trying to appear clever. Otherwise, the attempt will backfire.
As I said before, cross-platform play is limited for games like Fortnite. And that is for a reason.
It is the same reason why the leading console players for those games often use devices like Xim 4.

This isn't about consoles vs PC, though. With the right input methods, both can be competitive.
After all, what is a console if not a PC in a special outfit?
But the standard for consoles is an input method that is simply inferior when it comes to what is required in a shooter. Hence the cross-platform restrictions.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 5 July 2018 at 3:07 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEPFully irrelevant.
This is about internet usage. If I was purely interested in internet usage, I also wouldn't bother to buy a PC.
It makes absolute sense that some of those who were primarily using their PC for things easily done on mobile nowadays switch to mobile.

But we're talking about gaming here.
If you can afford a proper big screen and a PC to go with it, you won't buy a tiny-screened mobile device for the purpose of gaming.
Depending on your needs, you'll go for a PC or subsidized PC with questionable input (aka console).

Totally disagree. Internet usage is prove where did people (in this case/report Malaysians and foreigners live in Malaysia) spending their time on to computing.

Look closely on rising internet usage of smart TV/Kodi box. Steve Jobs was partially right. Right now, most people considered PC as 'a truck'. Kodi box/smart TV are 'lightweight truck' that fullfilled most average people computing needs.

Not everyone need an full size desktop to most things that you can do it on smartphones, including gaming. PC gaming was started on decline especially post-Android where affordable, powerful and Chinese-branded smartphone flooding on market. Only PC gaming enthusiasts now staying on PC platform. Post-PC especially PC gaming booming right now won't last long. Well, it's not a bubble but saturated market cannot growing anymore.

And....., It's not coincidence with report on mobile gaming will hitting nearly $70 million of US$140 million this year Gameindustry.biz article

EDIT: $70 million, $140 Million are total global market. 50% mobile, 25% console, 24% PC.
(Note to self: Do not write comments on wee morning)

If I'm game developer, I know where's best futureproof platform to publish my games on (and making money). And do not underestimate ARM chipset power and portability of smartphone. People nowadays are always on the move for example, you have to go 'out-station work' away from home for 2-5 days. People do not give a damn on how small their screen as long they can 'gaming' on anywhere without a problem. That's a fact.

If you disagree then better for us to agree to disagree. I'm not looking for argument. Just to state the fact and reality about our future, mobile devices/smartphones. Microsoft looking to unite all their systems (Windows, XBox, W10 Mobile/ARM etc) on single ecosystem (read walled garden). Apple already 1/2 step closer.

Again, not looking for argument. Better we agree to disagree. Let the time tells if we are right or wrong.


Last edited by tonR on 6 July 2018 at 11:08 am UTC

Remember to keep it cool and calm :)

Quoting: tonRNot everyone need an full size desktop to most things that you can do it on smartphones, including gaming.

Really?
So I can just take my smartphone and play Europa Universalis IV? Oh wait, I can't, it couldn't handle the demands and I wouldn't be able to see a thing.
Well, then I could surely play some Spellforce 3 on it! Oh, seems like I can't. Because there is no physical way all that information could fit into one tiny screen without causing eye damage.
What strategy games can be played on mobile are some very simplistic or turn-based ones.
Okay, so maybe no complex strategy games that would require much information on the screen at the same time. What about shooters, then?!
Surely I can play Fortnite or PUBG and compete with PC gamers. Ooops, can't do that, not in solo at least - because the inferior input and smaller screen would put me at a serious disadvantage.
Well, what about games like the new Doom, then, or Shadow Warrior (the 2013/16 ones)? No? Well, damn...
What shooters can be played on mobile are rail shooters or simplified shooters with aim assist. Well, once I'm old and senile, I might be interested in that...

I could go on like this for weeks, but the point is:
You can not just play everything on mobile that you can on PC (and vice versa, though PC is way less limited). It is simply impossible.

Quoting: tonROnly PC gaming enthusiasts now staying on PC platform. Post-PC especially PC gaming booming right now won't last long. Well, it's not a bubble but saturated market cannot growing anymore.

It doesn't have to be growing like crazy, it just has to stay big enough for everyone who's interested to afford producing worthwhile games and hardware.
All the casuals leaving to mobile will only improve the games on PC, or at least thin the herd of terrible games.

Quoting: tonRIf I'm game developer, I know where's best futureproof platform to publish my games on (and making money).

If the only thing you as a game developer would be interested in is making money, then you would have lost your soul and nothing worthwhile would ever come of your work.
Just look at EA. One terrible game after another, with just enough gameplay to keep the mass of casuals hooked.
Not a single great game among them. Number of units sold is simply not connected to quality.

Quoting: tonRPeople do not give a damn on how small their screen as long they can 'gaming' on anywhere without a problem. That's a fact.

People who game just as a matter of passing the time don't give a damn about the screen size, that's for sure.
Just look at this:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/690150/leading-mobile-games-google-play-world-revenue/
Every single one of them a "game" that lives only by providing the most primal of reward mechanisms without any challenge to the player whatsoever.
Just some colourful effects, bling-bling and the illusion of challenge as you need to touch somewhere every now and then. Every PC gamer would fall asleep in less than five minutes.
This might be the future of "passing time", but it sure isn't the future of gaming as a serious hobby and activity. There is no challenge in those games, no world to get immersed in, nothing to learn, nothing to grow with.

I am sorry, but you just sound like those people in the West when the smartphone boom started there 15 years ago.
Or when consoles became a thing.
"PC gaming is dead, consoles/smartphones/whatever are the future!" Bla, bla, bla...
And here we are, 15 years later (which is an eternity in tech time), with more PC games releasing than ever and more of them being sold than ever.
Eh, PC gaming is doing great and will keep on doing so. I couldn't care less how much more well mobile does - it simply doesn't matter.

Quoting: tonRMicrosoft looking to unite all their systems (Windows, XBox, W10 Mobile/ARM etc) on single ecosystem (read walled garden). Apple already 1/2 step closer.

That would surely be wonderful - a common platform for everything, removing the need of ports for the most part -, but I don't see that happening soon.

Don't get me wrong, I do expect that all kind of PC/console/mobile will eventually unify into one thing that can fulfill all purposes. But that probably won't happen in my lifetime (which is hopefully at least 40-50 years still).


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 6 July 2018 at 12:52 pm UTC

Well, I'm agreed to partially agree/disagree with some of your opinions except two statement below.

Quoting: TheSHEEEP1. I am sorry, but you just sound like those people in the West when the smartphone boom started there 15 years ago.
Or when consoles became a thing.

2."PC gaming is dead, consoles/smartphones/whatever are the future!" Bla, bla, bla...
And here we are, 15 years later (which is an eternity in tech time), with more PC games releasing than ever and more of them being sold than ever.
Eh, PC gaming is doing great and will keep on doing so. I couldn't care less how much more well mobile does - it simply doesn't matter.

1. I am genuine believe that mobile devices/smartphone will continue to growth and not saturated yet because....
- portability, most smartphone not lightweight (nearly 200 gram) but it's definitely lighter than laptop.
- performance, some smartphone can outperform laptop that comes with.....
- price, ..... sometimes much cheaper price than laptop.
- tech, new battery tech, folding screen, physical keyboard comeback for some models, etc.
So, smartphones are just enough for most average people computing needs. But for gaming segment (including Linux gaming), I'm kinda have mixed opinion. That's why I partially agree and disagree with your opinion.

2. Yes, PC gaming currently doing excellently. I've never denied that. I'm never said PC gaming is dead.
I'm saying that PC market in general is saturated. Not oversaturated but it is hard for a new player (manufacturer) entering the market with many established brands already conquered PC segment for years. Even established one like IBM ran away years ago.

Again, let's we agree to partially agree/disagree. And again, Let the time again decide. I'm rest my case.

Quoting: liamdaweRemember to keep it cool and calm :)

Please don't lock this thread Liam. Pleaseee.... :(

EDIT: Spelling and grammar corrections.


Last edited by tonR on 6 July 2018 at 1:42 pm UTC

Since some of you mentioned Linux usage in asia, i have to say, you have no idea how market is like in here. Windows is like 'THE' computer for many people. Many dont even know other OSs exist, and they wouldnt use it. Lets say, as an example, my own mother language is Persian (Farsi dialect) and sometime linux feels way behind in terms of support. We have a couple of font, a trash calendar support (dont even get me started) and so on. Many people here who DO give linux a chance will throw it out of the windows (pun?) because of app or language support.

Besides, PUBG.

Quoting: Sudo_halttrash calendar support (dont even get me started)

Well now I'm curious.

Quoting: qptain Nemo

Quoting: Sudo_halttrash calendar support (dont even get me started)

Well now I'm curious.

I assume he means that support for the persian calendar used in Iran and Afganistan is lacking under Linux. I see a couple of dedicated calendar applications like Gahshomar but I wouldn't know how well they integrate into the OS. I also see a Thunderbird persian calendar plugin and apparently Google calendar has support as well. But again, no first-hand experience.

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: qptain Nemo

Quoting: Sudo_halttrash calendar support (dont even get me started)

Well now I'm curious.

I assume he means that support for the persian calendar used in Iran and Afganistan is lacking under Linux. I see a couple of dedicated calendar applications like Gahshomar but I wouldn't know how well they integrate into the OS. I also see a Thunderbird persian calendar plugin and apparently Google calendar has support as well. But again, no first-hand experience.

Thing is, whenever I hear something like this, I wonder, how to put it . . . like, not so many years ago it was like that in English. But it's open source. People, starting mainly in universities and such, built up a software ecosystem and now an awful lot of stuff is pretty dashed good. All this, starting from when Linux was completely a hobbyist OS, not even used in servers, not relevant to anyone's employment really, not capable of doing very much.
All a place like China has to do is take existing desktops and software and man pages and whatnot, and localize 'em; with Chinese writing that's a bigger challenge than its seems, sure, but still, the compilers and spreadsheets and kernel and desktop environments and blah and blah and blah are all already done. And China has masses of high tech university campuses full of students, and they're gonna be using some Linux because it's the OS for servers and the cloud and supercomputers and robotics and often science. So why the hell aren't they fixing it up? Same goes for a place like Iran--educated population, plenty good reasons not to be dependent on US software, source is open, what's the problem?
In short, I understand that Linux is in many places not that polished for the desktop, but why not?!


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 8 July 2018 at 1:23 am UTC

Quoting: Purple Library GuyAnd China has masses of high tech university campuses full of students, and they're gonna be using some Linux because it's the OS for servers and the cloud and supercomputers and robotics and often science. So why the hell aren't they fixing it up?

Same goes for a place like Iran--educated population, plenty good reasons not to be dependent on US software, source is open, what's the problem?

In short, I understand that Linux is in many places not that polished for the desktop, but why not?!

Two simple questions I can tell a very simple answers and a example.

Most governments and corporations in Asia (regardless what style of governance, dictactors or democratics) wanted "eunuchs" graduates not "inventors" graduates because the inventors graduates can and will "take you down" as they are smarter than you. So, they are paranoid.

The example, "big and VIP" persons, politicians (almost every politicians here are rich) and millionaires/billionaires always not sending their children to "local public universities", instead they send their children to overseas (mostly the west) as "local public universities" are their source of eunuchs. They don't want their children to "fucked up" like other kids that they "fucking" with.

I cannot going deeper answer than that.

Also, please do not forcing me or other non or partial - free citizens here to tell more deeper answer than that, as it will never come out good. I (or anyone here) doesn't want go "on vacation" for years because of our comments. I hope you'll understand and be sensible of this "super sensitive" matter (for us). Thank you.

EDIT: Too early pressing send button and my internet connection...... :><:


Last edited by tonR on 8 July 2018 at 3:18 am UTC

Quoting: Purple Library GuySo why the hell aren't they fixing it up? Same goes for a place like Iran--educated population, plenty good reasons not to be dependent on US software, source is open, what's the problem?
In short, I understand that Linux is in many places not that polished for the desktop, but why not?!

Good old chicken and egg. Their community isn't big enough to ease the way for a local community to form. It takes the blood and sweat of enthusiastic hobbyists to get things to the point where the larger public might feel comfortable joining in. Often these hobbyists might be university students with time on their hands, but that requires a cultural, political and social atmosphere that is not downright hostile.

EDIT: This isn't about Iran specifically. I actually saw a small but healthy Farsi localization community years ago, back when I was active in the i18n efforts of a few FOSS projects. The Middle East has changed a lot since then of course.


Last edited by tuubi on 8 July 2018 at 11:09 am UTC