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With the dust settling on the absolute bomb that Valve dropped with the new Steam Play feature, I’ve had a little time now to think about the broader implications. It’s obviously a lot to process and these are just my own personal thoughts.

In the short time Proton has been live, the Linux gaming community has come together in a way that I've not seen in all the years I've been doing this. Looking at the GitHub page for Proton, there's already masses of people submitting issues, mentioning games that work perfectly to add to Valve's whitelist of games, people submitting code to help the project along and so on. There's also a massive document on Google Docs, with people submitting their findings on how games run. Seems like it's off to a rather good start!

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One of the major worries I had initially, which I’ve seen others share, is that this could mean the end of native Linux ports. However, I have a different take on it.

When it comes to the long-term viability of Linux gaming, getting 2 or 3 AAA games natively ported a year is simply not sustainable. While I am absolutely appreciative of the effort and a big fan of the porting studios, we needed something else to complement native ports to help push us forward.

To be clear on something, I’m absolutely all for the famous “No Tux, No Bucks” slogan people like to throw around. It’s a brilliant thing that there’s a lot of enthusiastic people out there sticking to their guns, buying only games that support Linux. A small reality check though: for the vast majority of developers you’re basically pissing into the wind due to our market share. Developers aren’t likely to see enough sales to think it’s truly worth the effort.

Thinking that this will completely kill off ports from Aspyr Media, Feral Interactive and other porters is probably thinking too short-term. In my mind, this could actually help them quite a lot when thinking about the bigger picture.

With this Steam Play move, this could be a massive push for more people to actually play their games on Linux, get more people actually install Linux and so on. This could, at least in theory, give native porting houses a much bigger market to sink their teeth into. After all, the biggest problem we face is market share, what happens if this starts to move it upwards? Like with SteamOS though, let’s keep expectations in check—I don’t expect this to instantly move mountains. However, this seems like a long-term plan that’s thinking ahead and if it does result in more people using Linux for gaming, that will benefit the entire platform—not just gamers.

Think about it: what’s the single biggest issue people have when it comes to sticking with Linux for their gaming requirements? The actual games, duh. If this bridges a gap for all the people that claim “if x game worked on Linux, I would be on Linux” this probably will become a game changer. Especially important, is the fact that this doesn’t require time and effort to configure, like any other Steam game (for the whitelisted games at least) it will be click and play. The value of that, should not be underestimated. To give an example of that, see the below video:

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It’s especially important for all those games people have on Steam that they would otherwise lose access to when moving to Linux. People shouldn’t have to lose their favourite games! Even if it’s only used as a bridge while people move towards purchasing native titles, it’s still an extremely useful feature.

Valve told us directly, that purchases of Windows games played with Proton on Linux will count as a Linux sale. If you missed the update to the previous article, they said this:

Hey Liam, the normal algorithm is in effect, so if at the end of the two weeks you have more playtime on Linux, it'll be a Linux sale. Proton counts as Linux.

So, with any luck, all the people who were already buying Windows games for Wine (and any users coming over to Linux from Windows) will start doing so from within Steam directly. Now if you pick it up to play in Steam Play and a native Linux port comes later (for those times when a release is delayed) you’ve still been counted for Linux gaming—which is truly awesome!

This may help give Linux gaming a more positive outlook in the eyes of developers looking at their sales statistics. That’s quite a big point to reflect on. This might give developers who otherwise ignored Linux some incentive and a push to actually support the platform. If they suddenly start seeing a ton of people buying on Linux, it might start some interesting conversations about actually supporting it officially. Those types of conversations end up creating waves through the entire industry, I've already seen a lot of developers quite excited and hopeful about it all, so it's already making a positive impact on some.

There’s other points to think about too. Linux GPU Drivers and the Vulkan API will be given a much larger testing pool. I imagine this benefiting them greatly. Valve said it themselves in their announcement, that they recommend that developers target Vulkan (as well as telling developers to avoid invasive third-party DRM middleware), so this could be a good way to push Vulkan which is better for all of us since it’s an open API.

However, Valve’s Proton can only do so much for performance and getting a game to work in the first place. What about bugs in the game itself they literally cannot code around to get it working on Linux? What about the masses of online-only games, that have various forms of anti-cheat that Proton/Wine simply cannot handle?

There’s a large number of games that only half work or simply don’t work at all. What about when your favourite game gets an update, which breaks it with Proton? There’s likely many cases that I’m probably not even thinking of, where Valve’s solution simply wouldn’t work or would give a subpar experience.

This is where native ports will still be king. You know what you’re buying will work on Linux and it will give you official support from the developer. When it gets updated, you know it’s still going to work because that’s literally their job to ensure it does. That’s likely the major reason why native ports won’t, or rather shouldn’t, dry up. Valve have to attempt to support a massive, ever-increasing library of Windows-only games and so their resources are going to be spread pretty thin on this. Not to mention that there’s always a chance that Valve could decide to pull back on support in a year or two if they decide it’s not working well enough.

Compare that with a developer putting out a Linux version; obviously they have a much smaller (and likely easier) bit of code to focus on. I would still expect the experience to be superior with a native port, since it’s tweaked specifically for Linux and it’s likely gone through some proper QA. When it comes to games that do require anti-cheat that doesn't (and might never) work with Proton, this could end up being a rather lucrative selection of games for game porters.

Like what happens when any new tech comes out, porting companies will need to adapt to survive. I hope they do, I want them to. The more options we have, the better it is for everyone.

I mentioned drivers briefly earlier. Well, how many times do you think driver issues have held up a Linux port? From what I know, quite often. If we do indeed get better drivers as a result of this, it might also create fewer issues for developers when it comes to doing native ports. We know that some driver developers have been specifically fixing issues with games in Wine, so it sounds like it's been someting ongoing for some time now.

I did speak to Feral Interactive, who told me “Our plans for our future Linux projects haven't changed.”. So we should be able to look forward to continued native Linux ports, including their currently announced Linux ports for Life is Strange: Before the Storm and Total War: WARHAMMER II. I also reached out to Aspyr Media, who declined to give a public comment for us at this time and Virtual Programming did not reply at all.

It remains to be seen what truly happens, but this is probably one of the biggest things to ever happen to Linux gaming. It’s a very interesting time to be both a Linux gamer as well as someone who writes about Linux gaming news.

At the very least, it’s put Linux gaming back on the map for a lot of people. I’ve lost count many times over at the amount of people sending us messages across our various social networks, telling us how excited they are about the possibilities of this.

These are just my own thoughts, I invite any game developer, game engine developer or game porter to write their own post to talk about it. Our submissions are always open and I appreciate having different viewpoints.

Also, as a final note, I find it somewhat amusing that John Carmack said this back in 2013:

Improving Wine for Linux gaming seems like a better plan than lobbying individual game developers for native ports. Why the hate?

To pinch a popular meme—it’s as if Valve said “hold my beer”.

Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Nevertheless Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: liamdawe
Quoting: MaxPower
QuoteSo, with any luck, all the people who were already buying Windows games for Wine (and any users coming over to Linux from Windows) will start doing so from within Steam directly. Now if you pick it up to play in Steam Play and a native Linux port comes later (for those times when a release is delayed) you’ve still been counted for Linux gaming—which is truly awesome!

Except when the Linux version is published by a different company
It still applies to the wider point. You have still counted for Linux. That above all else is probably the most important thing. You can't grow a market that isn't seen.

That was what I didn't like about Wine the most! You purchase a Windows game, have to configure it to work, count as a Windows user, but have no support at all for your platform. Now developers see you as a Linux user, and you'll get your support by Valve. Plus, every incompatibility Valve finds and fixes will help more games to run on Linux. For the first time you can support an early access game of a dev you like, even though there is no Linux version until after early access.
I just hope Valve additionally gives developers of native Linux versions a slightly bigger share for all sold copies of any supported game, regardless of the platform as an incentive... I guess this also would help Feral, Aspire and the likes..
svartalf Aug 24, 2018
Here's a Game Porter's (*waves hand*) take on this.

BRING IT.

WINE by itself is an issue. The problem with part (but not all) of Feral's and other's "ports" has been that they took a similar route that just didn't play nice at least initially.

It was for this reason that we realistically didn't get Witcher 3. There's several others that ended up costing us. The reality is that you're going to, for a while, have companies look at what needs to be done and balk because they don't see a market there.

I know better.

We ALL know better.

But they don't. Therein lies the rub. WINE, by itself, won't give you figures, though, for the stuff that works- they still see Windows SKU's being bought. Period. End of story.

That doesn't help there. It didn't help me. Doesn't help Icculus. Raises costs for the work in question, etc. for all players, Feral Interactive included. Fortunately for some (Myself, Ryan, Feral...) we're still getting traction (Yes...can't say more...under NDA right now...)- but we're still struggling at getting deals when we shouldn't be. Seriously.

Using WINE without feedback to studios? Bad mojo. Until you have some feedback that lets the studio know you're talking Linux or OSX for a title running in that environment. Professionally? I'd love to do away with that abstraction layer- because you ARE emulating to a point. There is a PRICE for that in performance, stability, etc. that will lag behind the Windows game or the title that is properly ported. Some of that got easier. But if you're a studio without chops in Linux or OSX...you either have to hire someone as a direct or consultant (*waves hand*) to make that happen. That costs something.

Without feedback and numbers...how do you justify that expense? Some do by way of John Carmack's old thinking before ZeniMax bought iD out. Your code will be cleaner, tighter. Guaranteed. It's why he did that for the longest time. He got disillusioned, though, from the debacle with Loki Games- which was as much iD's own doing as Loki's there on Quake3:Arena.

Having said all of this...this is actually a bit of an opportunity to upsell our OS. Yes. It will register as a Linux play regardless if you're using Proton or Native titles. Guess what that does for numbers? If it works nearly as well (and my understanding a lot of it does right now for this...) as the Windows setup, you'll get takers leaving Windows forever. Heard as much from people on G+ and Facebook when this got announced. If you have a 10% margin of the market approximately instead of the 1-2% that Steam shows (mainly because of the lower numbers of available titles to run...) then you get studios seeing that magic number that they start contemplating doing their own work or hiring the likes of myself to help them DO it for their games.

Yeah, it "costs" me titles. Big whoop-de-f'ing-do. It'll ultimately get me stuff that'd never have happened before because those "lost" titles were never going to happen in the first place.

Whether this is a win or not remains to be seen- but it's not the horrible thing some make it out to be.


Last edited by svartalf on 24 August 2018 at 5:06 pm UTC
Nevertheless Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: adolson
Quoting: Shmerl
Quoting: adolsonIf I'm a developer, I don't see why I should put any effort into a Linux version.

Because supporting your users is proper. If you don't want to do that - you'd be a bad developer.

Tons of developers already don't support Linux. And now that their games can possibly easily be run on Linux with zero effort on their part, you think they're going to suddenly start to care? Give me a break.

It's best when it doesn't matter if they care anyway! We've come far with (almost) sympathy alone. This initiative (plus the bad ass behaviour of Microsoft) can get Linux gaming more users, which also really get counted. Plus there's still those good devs. We should let them know we didn't forget them because of tons of new Windows games possibilities!
svartalf Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: GuestUntil game devs and/or Valve officially support Proton/Wine releases, it's not safe and doesn't come with those rights, so using it only as a backwards compatibility tool is what we should do. We should encourage developers to release Proton/Wine bottles if this path is the easiest path out of all the other ones available while still providing a bug-free well-performing Linux release. Let's also not forget about all the non-Steam sources of games that could carry such whatever-wrapped/bottled releases, such as GOG.

Considering that it's the distribution/e-pub publisher for this stuff, I think you're going to find that it's supported in some manner. They already said that a Proton ran title will explicitly count as the respective OSX or Linux run when you launch for metrics against the Steam ecosystem. There's your first hint that it's not QUITE like just running under WINE in the first place. I know for a fact that there's a bit of a BIG push for SteamOS/Linux support from Valve, along with one or two other rather large players in the Industry for Linux specific support (and not Proton) in the last year. I know I'm looking at some things because of those pushes.
Maath Aug 24, 2018
I have some friends who do not like where Microsoft has gone with Window 10, and its privacy intrusion and other aspects of it. Being able to access the games they like to play in Linux might just be enough for them to switch. I'm sure there are other people thinking the same thing.
Shmerl Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: svartalfWINE, by itself, won't give you figures, though, for the stuff that works- they still see Windows SKU's being bought. Period. End of story.

Can you elaborate please? Do stores share platform stats with developers and publishers? For instance, GOG clearly collect statistics based on the user agent, so even if you buy something with intent to play in Wine, but do the actual purchase and downloading from Linux (with proper user agent), GOG statistics will register that fact. Do you mean that info is never relayed to developers and that's why they see it as Windows sale?
svartalf Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: Shmerl
Quoting: svartalfWINE, by itself, won't give you figures, though, for the stuff that works- they still see Windows SKU's being bought. Period. End of story.

Can you elaborate please? Do stores share platform stats with developers and publishers? For instance, GOG clearly collect statistics based on the user agent, so even if you buy something with intent to play in Wine, but do the actual purchase and downloading from Linux (with proper user agent), GOG statistics will register that fact. Do you mean that info is never relayed to developers and that's why they see it as Windows sale?

Right now, if you're using WINE, not with a wrapper framework like GoG is using or Proton like Valve is, you have no feedback- even the community provided installers tell the studios NOTHING. You bought a Windows SKU, so it gets LOGGED as one. That user agent in GoG's part lets you track their stuff. Valve has none and you largely have to run, prior to this, as a Windows user for titles that ran right in WINE because you had to run STEAM in WINE to play most of those titles. With Proton, that changed in the same manner GoG is working on trying to get real metrics.

If you don't use either? You're just a Windows SKU purchaser like all the Windows users on anything else under WINE.

Also, if you're not using GoG's agent and just raw-installing stuff (which is still an option...) then you're in that aforementioned space of WINE without tracking.

As for the stores sharing tracking stats? Those are typically public- they share metrics for genres, etc. so that the publishers know what is/isn't making money. They know, typically, whether a Windows SKU is selling over an OSX or Linux one, where there are actual SKUs.


Last edited by svartalf on 24 August 2018 at 5:24 pm UTC
svartalf Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: legluondunetWhat is a dev/editor don't want his game to be playable on Linux? Could he ask Valve to remove SteamPlay compatibility to his game? This could be for several reasons:
- the game does not work well with SteamPlay and he fears that this gives a bad image to his game
- Microsoft or EA doesn't want theirs games could be played on another platform than Windows
- Dev/Editor fears than this give them more work for support.

Yeah, you could have them do that and for that reason- but Valve will be recalcitrant to remove it from the list and you can **ALWAYS** turn off the bars. They left that option open and it's with that there that I'm going to be putzing with a few things this weekend. X-D

As for EA...yeah, they might be one to seek that.

Microsoft? The answer there might surprise most on here. They're going to be inclined to insist upon it working correctly for that title- but not tell them no if it does. They won't care one way or another- it's another sale. They still see it for their purposes as a Windows SKU on their accounting of things.

Dev/Editor/Publisher being concerned- maybe. I can tell you, though, Valve's pushing for SOME sort of SteamOS support at acceptable levels if you're being published on the platform, if at all possible. So, that's going to be a point of contention now that the network effect works in Valve's favor there. If you've got code that doesn't work right in Proton, it could be said that your code is potentially not stable on the Windows side of things, to be blunt. You don't want to go there and you'll try, at least, to sort it out.
Shmerl Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: svartalfRight now, if you're using WINE, not with a wrapper framework like GoG is using or Proton like Valve is, you have no feedback- even the community provided installers tell the studios NOTHING. You bought a Windows SKU, so it gets LOGGED as one. That user agent in GoG's part lets you track their stuff.
<...>
Also, if you're not using GoG's agent and just raw-installing stuff (which is still an option...) then you're in that aforementioned space of WINE without tracking.

By agent I assume you mean their Galaxy client. I mean simply regular HTTP client user agent. When you buy and download from GOG, platform attribution for that transaction is based on user agent.

Common scenario:

1. You buy a Windows game on GOG's site using Firefox on Linux. Your user agent is logged and GOG stores the stat with "purchased from Linux" +1 for that game.

2. You download the game using lgogdownloader or same Firefox from Linux. Your user agent is again logged and GOG stores the stat with "downloaded from Linux" +1 for that game.

This much was explained by actual GOG Linux team developers. Are you saying there is no backwards flow of this info to developers and publishers?


Last edited by Shmerl on 24 August 2018 at 5:41 pm UTC
svartalf Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: Shmerl1. You buy a Windows game on GOG's site using Firefox on Linux. Your user agent is logged and GOG stores the stat with "purchased from Linux" +1 for that game.

2. You download the game using lgogdownloader or same Firefox from Linux. Your user agent is again logged and GOG stores the stat with "downloaded from Linux" +1 for that game.

This is so wrong it's entertaining- this presumes you're using the local client and that you've not altered user agent strings.

Seriously, this is how GoG is doing that? My estimation of them just dropped a smidge because of that. (Hint: It's not even remotely a good way to do this sort of thing)

QuoteThis much was explained by actual GOG Linux team developers. Are you saying there is no backwards flow of this info to developers and publishers?

It's useless information, to be **BRUTALLY** blunt.

What if I download it on Windows (Very possible) and play it on both Windows and Linux, or all three. If you don't think this could possibly happen, you're gravely mistaken. With the model there, that Windows purchase still counted as one.

With a client running Proton, for example, Valve KNOWS it was a Linux run/usage. GoG hasn't a single clue ONE what is being ran for what OS. NONE. They only have what you downloaded it with, which might/might not be the same.

With those metrics, I'd disregard every number GoG hands me because they've no concept, no clue what's really being done other than how it was "purchased" and number of downloads don't get you useful info. iD counted it as SKU sales to whichever OS on Q3:A and there was a 3 week delay for the box sets from Loki because of a logistics f-up. People bought Windows copies and "patched" them to run on Linux. SO...Loki owed 250k in royalties for things not sold, but there was about that same number of Linux titles. iD didn't care- because downloads don't count...only sales or actual direct usage stats like Valve got...and iD didn't get usages because their framework wasn't set UP for it.
Shmerl Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: svartalfSeriously, this is how GoG is doing that?

According to GOG at least. I have no way of verifying it.

See here:

* https://github.com/Sude-/lgogdownloader/issues/135

* https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/8unssh/is_there_any_way_to_indicate_my_os_when_buying/e1h5pfk/

Using user agent is a common practice to determine OS. I don't see why you view it as a problem. It's not perfect, but it's the only way that makes sense for a DRM-free store. All other methods won't even remotely be DRM-free.

There is one other method though, which HB use. Explicit platform preference set by the user. I don't see it as being very different from user agent though. The former is more automated at least.


Last edited by Shmerl on 24 August 2018 at 6:02 pm UTC
svartalf Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: Shmerl
Quoting: svartalfSeriously, this is how GoG is doing that?

According to GOG at least. I have no way of verifying it.

See here:

* https://github.com/Sude-/lgogdownloader/issues/135

* https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/8unssh/is_there_any_way_to_indicate_my_os_when_buying/e1h5pfk/

Using user agent is a common practice to determine OS. I don't see why you view it as a problem.

For a browser stat...yeah. The problem begins with a Wine capable game. I bought with Windows, I downloaded it with Windows.

But...I run it on Linux. You didn't GET the Linux number. WOULDN'T.

The browser isn't what runs the game and it's a blindingly STUPID way to get that usage stat.

Here's another example of how it's so very, very wrong.

I have bought the game on Windows. I now download it for Windows, Linux, and OSX.

But I ran it only on Linux. How do you know that the double-tap for Windows there is valid? Oh, wait, you don't. How do you know that the OSX one is valid? Oh, that's right...again...

And yet another example.

Because of issues with other sites I work with, I've changed my User Agent to be the WINDOWS version of Mozilla instead of the Linux one. I buy, I download. WHICH gets logged?

This doesn't work and if you can't comprehend this...I can't help you. Seriously, I can't and there's nobody else that can either.
Shmerl Aug 24, 2018
QuoteWhat if I download it on Windows (Very possible) and play it on both Windows and Linux, or all three. If you don't think this could possibly happen, you're gravely mistaken. With the model there, that Windows purchase still counted as one.

You can only count what you have control over. GOG don't control what and where you are playing - they are DRM-free. So they can only account for purchasing and downloading, which makes perfect sense.
Shmerl Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: svartalfFor a browser stat...yeah. The problem begins with a Wine capable game. I bought with Windows, I downloaded it with Windows.

But...I run it on Linux.

So don't do that. Download and buy from Linux.
svartalf Aug 24, 2018
And before you remark...most browsers let you change your user agent string...hell, they even PROVIDE you plugins and tools to do with as enhancements to the browser...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/user-agent-switcher/

Just one reason, in concrete, that it's not useful like you think it is.
svartalf Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: Shmerl
Quoting: svartalfFor a browser stat...yeah. The problem begins with a Wine capable game. I bought with Windows, I downloaded it with Windows.

But...I run it on Linux.

So don't do that. Download and buy from Linux.

Sigh. I can't help you and you're part of the problem, to be blunt.
Shmerl Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: svartalfAnd before you remark...most browsers let you change your user agent string...hell, they even PROVIDE you plugins and tools to do with as enhancements to the browser...

Sure, I don't see any problem with that. Same way HB explicitly allow you set any platform (to display stats during bundle sales) and they don't care what platform you are really going to use.

Issue is, many games are sold for many OSes at once (Linux, Windows and MacOS at least). So you bought all 3. What should be measured exactly in a DRM-free store? User agent for purchasing and downloading is a reasonable way. Most will only get one version. Some might get all three. Then the count is even more fun, but purchasing was still be a single transaction so that helps.


Last edited by Shmerl on 24 August 2018 at 6:23 pm UTC
Shmerl Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: svartalfSigh. I can't help you and you're part of the problem, to be blunt.

What kind of problem? Your idea seems to imply that you need DRM and "clients" to determine what OS the game was bought for. That's not an acceptable solution for a DRM-free store. Do you have better ideas?

And you still didn't confirm that developers have access to this info (purchasing / downloading stats). Do they or they do not? GOG refuse to answer this question so we can't determine whether there is a feedback loop.

If they do, then developers can see that their Windows game was purchased on Linux and they can evaluate the amount of such users.


Last edited by Shmerl on 24 August 2018 at 6:18 pm UTC
m2mg2 Aug 24, 2018
A really big problem with native linux ports has been cross platform multiplayer. To some extent if you can't make cross platform multiplayer work native but you can with Proton, Proton makes more since. Seems to me if you want to do a native port, you need to design it that way from the start, including cross-platform multiplayer. If you aren't going to do that you should probably focus on Proton. I think native is better, but if you are only going to half *** i, it isn't. Unfortunately too many devs/publishers have been half ***ing it. Feral is great, but if you make your game with technology that can't do cross platform multiplayer with reasonable effort even Feral can't help you. If Proton can show true Linux usage numbers (remove Wine sales/use from Windows and give them to Linux) and bring some new users maybe it will be enough for some of these companies to stop half ***ing it.
jarhead_h Aug 24, 2018
Quoting: MaathI have some friends who do not like where Microsoft has gone with Window 10, and its privacy intrusion and other aspects of it. Being able to access the games they like to play in Linux might just be enough for them to switch. I'm sure there are other people thinking the same thing.

Everytime that I have ever tried to evangelize for Linux I get one of three excuses for not switching - 1) muh games. 2)muh Photoshop. 3)muh MSOffice. Wine runs all of them to some extent, but it's a real hassle even for people versed in command line fu. The real key to this is not only that Wine works better than ever and is ever improving, but that it's SEAMLESS for the normies. And as things continue to improve month after month year after year the normies will trickle over because they don't want to pay Microsoft so that Microsoft can spy on them and sell the data and don't like that Microsoft controls their computer and can often break it unintentionally.
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