Reddit seems to be buzzing with information from SteamDB (full credit to them for finding it) showing indications that Valve might be adding support for compatibility tools to enable you to play games on operating systems they weren't designed for, like Wine.
I won't copy all of it, but a few interesting bits do certainly stick out like the string named "Steam_Settings_Compat_Info" where the description reads "Steam Play will automatically install compatibility tools that allow you to play games from your library that were built for other operating systems.".
There's also "Steam_Settings_Compat_Advanced_Info" which reads as "You may select a compatibility tool to use with games that have not been tested or verified to work on this platform. This may not work as expected, and can cause issues with your games, including crashes and breaking save games."
Valve do also have a Valve Compatibility Manifests and Valve Compatibility Manifests for Beta Testing set of packages that show up on SteamDB.
That certainly sounds like something Wine related, perhaps with a sprinkle of something like DXVK, don't you think? However, it could even just be DOSBox, a Valve-sponsored tool or anything—we simply don't know enough at this point.
Having the ability to use tools like Wine from within the native Linux Steam client, is actually something that has been requested for a long time by quite a number of people. It could certainly make using Wine less of a hassle for Steam games. If so, it might even give developers a better idea of how many people are on different operating systems if it showed up in their statistics when someone's using such a feature.
It might even be quite a smart business move for Valve, as it might push more people to buy games that have a decent enough rating through one of these compatibility tools.
It could all end up being nothing, so take it with your usual pinch of salt. Even if it does end up being a real feature, it could be quite a long way off too. I'm only posting it because I personally found it quite interesting, I'm pretty sceptical about it for a number of reasons, but doesn't stop it being somewhat exciting too.
What are your thoughts?
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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isnt that what vulkan should be? vulkan was made to bring games to other OS.
id software told us how easy it is to port doom to linux. maybe someone can ask feral interactive how much work it would be to port RotTR/mad max from the LINUX VULKAN version to a Windows VULKAN version. that would be very interesting
Vulkan is not a SDK, is just a graphic API. Unfortunately, porting an application to another OS is not just about the graphic API.
Don't get too exited people, it could be nothing.
of course, but all engines need to support this SDK
it is more likely that all engines suppport vulkan, because vulkan is open
and as far i know it should be easier/make less trouble porting a game from one OS to another
i mean vulkan already exists and it has proven, that it works great on linux and windows. (big) game studios just need to use it instead of DX
something new means back to the beginning
0 Likes
qptain Nemo Aug 15, 2018
Tbh i prefer to play old games on Wine than Windows 10 because they all work much better. I even need to do more fixes to work proper on Windows 10Any specific examples? I'd appreciate them for future talking points.
I am actually looking forward to playing some old windows games hassle-free -- Rock of Ages, Burnout Paradise and the Final Fantasy series that I already bought but haven't touched since I went full Linux and had no time to dick around setting them up.Burnout Paradise pretty much just works. Just tested it again in my pretty messed up main prefix and it's Gold on WineHQ. Pretty sure it should work in clean prefixes out of the box.
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TheRiddick Aug 15, 2018
It could work but developers would need to participate at least by saying they allow it for their titles, and are willing to pass on tech support questions to valve and whoever is helping valve.
Allowing DXVK for example to just work on everything is asking for trouble because you need to at least proof test things first on both AMD/NVIDIA GPU's so people don't constantly get issues.
Allowing DXVK for example to just work on everything is asking for trouble because you need to at least proof test things first on both AMD/NVIDIA GPU's so people don't constantly get issues.
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Userwithaname Aug 15, 2018
I do hope this becomes a thing. I always feel a slight sense of guilt when starting up my Wine Steam install, knowing that Valve is keeping track of the OS it is running on. I'm not getting hyped just yet tho.
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no_information_here Aug 15, 2018
I could see this as a "community" driven thing, like the Steam Controller profiles. Pick one of several community-designed Wine setups for this game! No official support, just like for Steam Controller profiles.
Valve likes to offload its work to the customers.
I think it could actually work, even without much Dev support.
Valve likes to offload its work to the customers.
I think it could actually work, even without much Dev support.
1 Likes, Who?
Hey guys; this doesn't specifically target linux OS.
Actually this sounds more like a compatibility tool to keep old windows games running in modern microsoft OSes.
As far as I know, many people complained about microsoft's latest OS entry lack of compatibility with very old game.
Actually this sounds more like a compatibility tool to keep old windows games running in modern microsoft OSes.
As far as I know, many people complained about microsoft's latest OS entry lack of compatibility with very old game.
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Actually this sounds more like a compatibility tool to keep old windows games running in modern microsoft OSes.
Valve can invest in Wine on Windows to do that. Which in turn will benefit Wine anyway.
Last edited by Shmerl on 15 August 2018 at 6:40 am UTC
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If they were able to make Wine a completely transparent layer that required no tweaks whatsoever then this would be utterly fantastic.
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This could be very good, if it's a customized install for each game - preferably with workshop integration so you can one click install all the tweaks and settings that will make a game run without affecting you system otherwise.
That would be great, because honestly that is my biggest beef with wine currently, having to use a special dev version with a bunch off .patch files and a hand full of extra programs to make a game potentially run, all of which inevitably messes up wine for your other games.
But I more or less expect it to just install plain wine and offer to attempt to run windows games with that, which would suck :(
That would be great, because honestly that is my biggest beef with wine currently, having to use a special dev version with a bunch off .patch files and a hand full of extra programs to make a game potentially run, all of which inevitably messes up wine for your other games.
But I more or less expect it to just install plain wine and offer to attempt to run windows games with that, which would suck :(
1 Likes, Who?
I just spent half an hour on this well crafted post and it was wiped out by my log in timing out. [shrugs]
It's not all the work, but AFAIK it's the lion's share of it. It has to be done from scratch. That's where Vulkan comes in and cannot be understated as being the key to the future.
Dude, admire the zeal, but chill. Should all gamers be treated equally on Steam? Why? We're not equal. There's lots more of them. Lots and lots and lots more. There are more Apple users than Linux users, and Apple makes technology for people that can't figure out technology. Last count has us at .5%. Not five percentage points, or a whole percentage point, but half of a percentage point. Now the number of Linux users that dual boot to game on Windows is probably half to three quarters of us because WINE is a hassle. But that makes us still less than 5% of Steam. Probably less than 3%. The fact that Valve even has a Linux storefront makes no short-term sense from a corporate financial standpoint. It's clear evidence of favoritism towards us. Linux is on Steam because Gabe Newell HATED Windows 8, and realized that so did everybody else. So he decided to start planting seeds for the day when Microsoft finally went off the rails and started pushing it's userbase around so badly that they actually jumped ship. We're almost there.
WINE, DXVK, and Lutris are miracles and gifts from the gaming gods, but they are also a chore to configure, they often don't run right, and cause performance penalties. But here's the thing, DOOM(2016) and other Vulkan rendered games run great because WINE just sends the Vulkan function calls straight to the graphics drivers. Vulkan is the future of Linux gaming because it's the future of WINE gaming. And I think that someone at Valve had that thought, and that's possibly why we have DXVK and now possibly WINE integrated into Steam. Imagine it, playing a game in WINE+DXVK and all you did was type "sudo dnf install steam" into the command line. Imagine it being that seamless. Maybe that's a pipe dream, but also maybe that's the plan.
We've been trying this FOSS thing for twenty years. It feels like we're actually going backwards now. The SteamOS push by Valve actually got us a bunch of AAA ports that we never would have gotten otherwise. We don't even get all the indie sales, and it makes way more economic sense for them to provide native Linux installs. We're even losing Linux support for titles every now and again that had it, like we did with Banner Saga.
This is a way to get rid of dual booting so that we can get accurate counts of just how many Linux gamers there are. It's also the only way to get around the fact that 80% of the titles on Steam will never have a Linux port. Ever. As for new titles, I think that actually depends more on Sony right now than Valve. If the Playstation uses Vulkan, we win. The outcome is that binary. Once a game is done in Vulkan the graphics stuff does not have to be redone for another OS. It just plugs in. Vulkan was designed to do that. That means a lot of Windows titles will come from the Playstation to Windows running Vulkan, which will run as seamlessly in WINE as DOOM and Wolfenstein do. And that's the end of Microsoft, because as soon as we don't need DirectX we don't need Windows.
That means we're free.
Vulkan is not a SDK, is just a graphic API. Unfortunately, porting an application to another OS is not just about the graphic API.
It's not all the work, but AFAIK it's the lion's share of it. It has to be done from scratch. That's where Vulkan comes in and cannot be understated as being the key to the future.
[LONG QUOTE THAT"S COMPLETELY CORRECTEverything Nemo said. /\this guy/\.
1) SOMEONE has to support every game that runs on Linux. Valve, or the game's dev, doesn't matter, but official support is a requirement of course. There should not be a "run in Wine" or anything like that, because all gamers should be treated equally on Steam, and Linux gamers shouldn't feel like they're lesser gamers in any way. It's either supported, or it's not.
2) Valve HAS to communicate this clearly to gamers, and the way of doing that right now is with the supported platform/OS icons. Valve should simply continue this and show a Linux/SteamOS icon when a game is supported on Linux, whether it runs through Wine or a Wine bottle or native it doesn't matter, it's the support that matters.
Dude, admire the zeal, but chill. Should all gamers be treated equally on Steam? Why? We're not equal. There's lots more of them. Lots and lots and lots more. There are more Apple users than Linux users, and Apple makes technology for people that can't figure out technology. Last count has us at .5%. Not five percentage points, or a whole percentage point, but half of a percentage point. Now the number of Linux users that dual boot to game on Windows is probably half to three quarters of us because WINE is a hassle. But that makes us still less than 5% of Steam. Probably less than 3%. The fact that Valve even has a Linux storefront makes no short-term sense from a corporate financial standpoint. It's clear evidence of favoritism towards us. Linux is on Steam because Gabe Newell HATED Windows 8, and realized that so did everybody else. So he decided to start planting seeds for the day when Microsoft finally went off the rails and started pushing it's userbase around so badly that they actually jumped ship. We're almost there.
WINE, DXVK, and Lutris are miracles and gifts from the gaming gods, but they are also a chore to configure, they often don't run right, and cause performance penalties. But here's the thing, DOOM(2016) and other Vulkan rendered games run great because WINE just sends the Vulkan function calls straight to the graphics drivers. Vulkan is the future of Linux gaming because it's the future of WINE gaming. And I think that someone at Valve had that thought, and that's possibly why we have DXVK and now possibly WINE integrated into Steam. Imagine it, playing a game in WINE+DXVK and all you did was type "sudo dnf install steam" into the command line. Imagine it being that seamless. Maybe that's a pipe dream, but also maybe that's the plan.
We've been trying this FOSS thing for twenty years. It feels like we're actually going backwards now. The SteamOS push by Valve actually got us a bunch of AAA ports that we never would have gotten otherwise. We don't even get all the indie sales, and it makes way more economic sense for them to provide native Linux installs. We're even losing Linux support for titles every now and again that had it, like we did with Banner Saga.
This is a way to get rid of dual booting so that we can get accurate counts of just how many Linux gamers there are. It's also the only way to get around the fact that 80% of the titles on Steam will never have a Linux port. Ever. As for new titles, I think that actually depends more on Sony right now than Valve. If the Playstation uses Vulkan, we win. The outcome is that binary. Once a game is done in Vulkan the graphics stuff does not have to be redone for another OS. It just plugs in. Vulkan was designed to do that. That means a lot of Windows titles will come from the Playstation to Windows running Vulkan, which will run as seamlessly in WINE as DOOM and Wolfenstein do. And that's the end of Microsoft, because as soon as we don't need DirectX we don't need Windows.
That means we're free.
6 Likes, Who?
Duke Takeshi Aug 15, 2018
Well... Somebody is funding DXVK and the Developer refuse to accept donations, so...
This.
I also think that this is a great thing. And necessary if Valve wants SteamOS to become the most relevant platform for Gaming in the long term (which is obviously their aim, as they are putting a huge amount of resources into it). The first step for them was creating SteamOS and Steam machines, also giving all valve games native Linux support was important. Now they'll try to push compatibility with other non-native Linux games to the maximum. But let's be honest, this won't make everyone who has a windows machine suddenly turn into a Linux freak and change OS.
Therefore I think the final step will be to have some of their own major titles release as SteamOS/Linux/Steam machine exclusives; let's say Half-life 3 and/or Portal 3 (we know Valve turned back to produce games on their own recently). They did the same thing with steam when they released Half-life 2: Everyone thought "why do I have to install this weird steam software with it. I hate this!" but since many people loved the first part of the game (and rightly so) they installed steam anyway to play its successor. Imho this was the birth of Steam and the foundation of Valves power in the gaming industry. Why shouldn't it work a second time?
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I don't like it and think it can potentially endanger Linux as a gaming platform. Sure Wine can be a quick and dirty way to bring in some more Linux users, but for how long? Don't most users want official/native and competitive support? Note with "most users" I don't have current Linux users on my mind, but those who you would introduce to Linux. In my experience most users, with a few exceptions, will laugh loudly at you if you bring up Wine to the discussion because Wine can never provide the same experience as a gaming studio who really care for the customers platform.
For years we've seen a steady increased interest for Linux from gaming studios and if they see a viable option to never support a platform or even drop their support because current Linux users are just as willing to pay for Wine-gaming, that interest may drop as a rock.
With all that said, it can still work, but Valve really needs to be extremely careful. They cannot give the two options equal treatment, there must be some very obvious disadvantages to the users. Some bold disclaimers. Better if the Wine option is hidden somewhere deep in the settings. Only then there can be a hope that gaming studios will still see a incentive to give real support for Linux.
For years we've seen a steady increased interest for Linux from gaming studios and if they see a viable option to never support a platform or even drop their support because current Linux users are just as willing to pay for Wine-gaming, that interest may drop as a rock.
With all that said, it can still work, but Valve really needs to be extremely careful. They cannot give the two options equal treatment, there must be some very obvious disadvantages to the users. Some bold disclaimers. Better if the Wine option is hidden somewhere deep in the settings. Only then there can be a hope that gaming studios will still see a incentive to give real support for Linux.
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Heresy, I tell you.
If many people buy the game, they already got your money. No further action required. The only good thing that can come from this is more people switching to Linux, but even then if they are perfectly happy with the compatibility layer (they won't be) it does not encourage any further porting efforts.
If few people buy the game, it's expensive - they will not port it.
If many people buy the game, it's profitable - they will port it.
If many people buy the game, they already got your money. No further action required. The only good thing that can come from this is more people switching to Linux, but even then if they are perfectly happy with the compatibility layer (they won't be) it does not encourage any further porting efforts.
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Finally I wonder if the DXVK human doesn't get paid by someone after all. The workload is impressive for a free project without payment. If Valve hasn't already hired the person, they should think about it. And Lutris?
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It seems like a short term benefit, with a potential long term downside. If you make it easy to just run the games in compatibility mode, most devs might just consider that good enough and not bother with a native port.
OS/2's windows 3.x and Win32S support was believed to be part of why fewer apps were ported to OS/2, and at the same time, the fact that MS kept intentionally breaking Win32S support on OS/2 made it a poor experience for a lot of the users, which drove users away from the platform.
We'll see though how it turns out.
OS/2's windows 3.x and Win32S support was believed to be part of why fewer apps were ported to OS/2, and at the same time, the fact that MS kept intentionally breaking Win32S support on OS/2 made it a poor experience for a lot of the users, which drove users away from the platform.
We'll see though how it turns out.
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https://twitter.com/thexpaw/status/1029627718344888321?s=19
Looks like it's for Mac, according to the SteamDB guy it was from an OSX binary.
Looks like it's for Mac, according to the SteamDB guy it was from an OSX binary.
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https://twitter.com/thexpaw/status/1029627718344888321?s=19
Looks like it's for Mac, according to the SteamDB guy it was from an OSX binary.
Makes sense if they are preparing for the deprecation of OpenGL.
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Think about it though, if they're going to have some kind of compat layer support...why be Mac only :)https://twitter.com/thexpaw/status/1029627718344888321?s=19
Looks like it's for Mac, according to the SteamDB guy it was from an OSX binary.
Makes sense if they are preparing for the deprecation of OpenGL.
1 Likes, Who?
Think about it though, if they're going to have some kind of compat layer support...why be Mac only :)https://twitter.com/thexpaw/status/1029627718344888321?s=19
Looks like it's for Mac, according to the SteamDB guy it was from an OSX binary.
Makes sense if they are preparing for the deprecation of OpenGL.
It's a start. And Valve has always supported Mac, so it makes sense for them to try and fix an upcoming problem for a lot of games in their store. If it is this, then they're probably looking at including something for OpenGL -> Metal, which should be a lot easier than to try and support Windows on Mac/Linux. As you have found out yourself, things are a lot more erratic in that department and it would currently be a support nightmare.
But who knows. They may have much bigger plans indeed.
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Think about what you're saying though. If they are going that route, they can't just hook up a tool to convert OpenGL to Metal, it would still need something like Wine to handle literally everything else the game would be doing ;)Think about it though, if they're going to have some kind of compat layer support...why be Mac only :)https://twitter.com/thexpaw/status/1029627718344888321?s=19
Looks like it's for Mac, according to the SteamDB guy it was from an OSX binary.
Makes sense if they are preparing for the deprecation of OpenGL.
It's a start. And Valve has always supported Mac, so it makes sense for them to try and fix an upcoming problem for a lot of games in their store. If it is this, then they're probably looking at including something for OpenGL -> Metal, which should be a lot easier than to try and support Windows on Mac/Linux. As you have found out yourself, things are a lot more erratic in that department and it would currently be a support nightmare.
But who knows. They may have much bigger plans indeed.
1 Likes, Who?
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