Valve officially confirm a new version of 'Steam Play' which includes a modified version of Wine

Quoting: AppelsinPS: I would, however, very much like to be proven wrong! :D

I don't think you are wrong, I think that Microsoft is late. Vulcan is already well-developed product with a strong corporate backing (Valve) that seems to be more adopted than DX12. The only way Microsoft might fight this is making proprietary extension for Vulcan. Any drastic change on side of their API will drastically change current ecosystem, unless they damage their own product so they don't work on whatever emulator you are running them. But then, this is gamble as this might as well go against them.

As for SteamPlay, great news! I think that we will see a shot up of linux percentage due to under-reporting! Valve can then come and claim that this big increase is because of these particular changes and claim it as victory, which might start an avalanche. But might not, depends how Valve will handle it.


Last edited by Colombo on 22 August 2018 at 8:24 am UTC

Quoting: GuestYou are just spreading FUD so you can lower the Linux HYPE.

A HYPE is never a good thing because after thar 100% of the time comes disappointment and all who cry "Huzzah for Valve!!!!111" and "Oh, Glorious Gabe Almighty!!!!1111" will find out nothing changed and ordinary Windows™-user still doesn't give a fsck about SteamOS.

Quoting: GuestYou might as well be a Microsoft employee at this point...

And, considering how you are propagating this Proton™ thing, you may be Valve®'s employee… :S:

Quoting: Guest1)They have nothing to fear. At best a court can force Valve to disable proton for the US. At the most. Microsoft may pursue legal battles but they will eventually lose all of them and will lose tons of money and PR in the process.

You can not lose what you don't have. Some SteamOS™ fanboys getting even more pissed off? Oww, scary! The Average Windows User will not care in the slightest.

Quoting: Guest2)Constant and rapid API changes will completely destroy software on windows as well.... They will be shooting themselves in the foot if they go that way. The hillarious(sic) thing will be that if they keep doing that Linux will end up having better compatibility and be an easier platform to develop and maintain for, which will lead more people to Linux...

Constant and rapid API changes are what Microsoft® does (.NET, GDIPlus, DDE, UWP and so on) and so far all of its feet are with it. It will implement its own in-house compatibility layers for Microsoft Store which will make games compatible only with it and not Steam™ (in fact it already did,; see UWP). And in the meantime while Valve®'s shop stays crippled Microsoft® will advertise it as the Only True Store. Average Joe wouldn't care where to get his new game (from torrents, of course! :P ).

You can not beat Microsoft® in its own game. Lots of companies tried. So far almost none survived (well, IBM technically hobbled away after "OS/2" fiasco). And guys like "Be Incorporated" ("BeOS") were independent OS suppliers. Valve® just sits on the shoulder of Windows™.

I've been wondering if that means that ARMA3 will now ditch eON and use this to get up-to-date between versions…

Normally I'm more than content to hide in the shadows of forums and comment sections, but I believe this news is exciting enough for me to come out of the woodwork for.

Exciting to me is actually not the newfound possibilities immediately opened up by this work, but rather what it implies for the long-term going forward. As others have mentioned, this is a very clear indication of Valve's Linux support (for those who needed such confirmation) and seems to spell out more to come.

What really excites me is that this implies Valve is likely continuing things already in motion and attempting to ensure that, were MS to push forward a lockdown strategy, a backup plan involving Linux will be available. I believe these "things in motion" will be the efforts such as the FreeSync changes in the kernel (which I personally would be very happy for), bug fixes and possibly performance improvements to Mesa (though I don't know how interested Valve are in Mesa anyway), and so on.

As has already been beaten to a pulp by other posters, I have some slight hesitation in regards to future native Linux ports, but I think it's a very great thing that there are now games which are accessible on Linux that certainly were never going to get a port (expecting, of course, that performance improvements and necessary bug fixes may still be something that people wait on for various titles). The transparency and availability of information such as market share should not be underestimated and we've already seen how Valve have been tweaking things to help developers on this end.

I'll definitely be watching changelogs at LKML to see relevant kernel changes that might be coming.

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: Whitewolfe80The code has not been tampered with no code injection has taken place they havent(sic) re written direct x to get it to work so they shouldnt(sic) have any legal grounds.

Yeah, sure. This didn't stop Oracle® from suing Google® for its Java™ API implementation.

Quoting: GuestStop with the FUD. Even if they sue they won't get anywhere. WINE infringes on no copyright, plus it has existed for 2 decades, legally they have lost the right to pursue anything now.

Even if a court ultimately rejects all claims, this can take ages and Valve®'s reputation will be tarnished. And, more importantly, the court can forbid any Valve®'s economical activity in the US of America during the process in order to prevent any possible further violations. By the time Microsoft® will be forced to pay reparation it will be useless because Valve® will be bankrupt.
And please, don't shoot the messager. I don't work for Microsoft®; all I want is for people to stop drinking Valve®'s kool-aid. Why are most people assuming Microsoft® won't retaliate? Be it a legal process or constant and rapid API changes in order to break compatibility? All of the previous Microsoft®'s history suggests otherwise.

Really?!? Not Likely.

IANAL... But...

First, on the unlikely chance that Microsoft files suit... Valve's reputation will NOT be tarnished. While companies are afraid of their suppliers being hit with lawsuits, Valve generally is associated with a consumer product. Consumers are more likely to be ignorant of the lawsuit, and even if they know about it they are more than likely to side with Valve because A) Valve supplies them with what they want, and B) Valve is a small company compared to Microsoft and the David vs Goliath complex comes into play with most consumers. There will probably be a few Microsoft loyalists that would be offended, but they are a drop in the bucket.

Second. You are correct, A lawsuit like this will take ages. It will be years before it will ever finish. The earlier reference Oracle lawsuit is still in the courts going through appeals and has been refiled, what, 3 times now by Oracle, and only the latest one has a small monetary damage. SCO vs IBM over linux copyrights started in 2003, lasted for 7 years, and even re-appeared last year. And yes, it can be possible that Microsoft can stop all infringing products from being distributed by Valve; however it is very unlikely. Microsoft would need to have overwhelming evidence that it will win the case before it even begins. This rarely happens, and is even less likely in a case that would be as complex as this one would be. It did not happen in either the Oracle Case or the SCO Linux case.

Third, and I am not sure how this affects the process, but I am sure any possible case would bring it up in court... In 2001, as part of the settlement deal between the US Govt and Microsoft; Microsoft agreed to share its application programming interfaces with third-party companies for five years. Microsoft's obligations under the settlement, as originally drafted, expired on November 12, 2007. However, Microsoft later "agreed to consent to a two-year extension of part of the Final Judgments" dealing with communications protocol licensing, and that if the plaintiffs later wished to extend those aspects of the settlement even as far as 2012, it would not object. In the case of Oracle, infringement was based on the API naming, not the underlying code. Here Microsoft was forced to share its API interface so that same claim is unlikely to work on any APIs published during the settlement compliance period. Though any API created after the settlement was over would probably be treated differently. However, remember, IANAL.

Any Microsoft lawsuit against Valve would require a lot of work with questionable results. And remember, Microsoft is still a de facto monopoly... There is a chance Valve can counter sue on the grounds that Microsoft is using its monopoly power to take over software distribution. Another long shot, but in a case this complex they have just as much of a chance of winning as Microsoft does.

Quoting: Ketil

Quoting: kalinYou are not serious right ? While there is less then 1% linux gamers self respecting publisher never will put money and effort to do anything for linux. Especially when the community is full with outraged retards and haters that constantly make death threats, I still remember witcher 2. The issue with linux gaming is not the porting but the support. It doesn't make sense. For that reason just be thankful to Valve for supporting us even when it doesn't make sense, even when people preferred gog for some reason.

For small studios who cannot reuse the effort on a larger scale, it might not make sense financially, but Valve is big enough that even 1% of their users make them a lot of money. Their work isn't restricted to a few games in a limited set of genres, but to a lot of games in all genres, so even if the cost is high, it will pay for itself if enough Linux users buy more games from steam as a result of it.

Will it pay for itself? Time will tell. I can only speak for myself, but I am sure I will buy more windows games if this works well. I also suspect some developers might will consider supporting Linux officially through steam play as well.

Totally wrong. With that effort they can make a lot more money while servicing the real market.
The only reason they doing it is that they don't want to put all their eggs in single basket. They hope that their effort will help linux to grow. It is important to note that if linux grow big valve and any game publisher/studio will not start to make more money because the number of gamers will be approximately the same.
Again be thankful to valve, they spend money on us because they believe in us. Believe in Valve


Last edited by kalin on 22 August 2018 at 8:48 am UTC

Quoting: ColomboVulcan(sic) is already well-developed product with a strong corporate backing (Valve) that seems to be more adopted than DX12. The only way Microsoft might fight this is making proprietary extension for Vulcan(sic).

We can only hope Vulkan prevails it the end but so far I'm not convinced this already happened. I've been monitoring news (in my country) regarding DX12 vs. Vulkan on the "General Purpose" gaming news sites (i.e. Windows™-centric) and so far an average Joe constantly hears about DirectX™ 12 while there is almost no news regarding Vulkan. The Vulkan news I've found, ironically, were panic-inducing ones (regarding Nvidia's new ray-racing features only working in DirectX™ and not in Vulkan).

The biggest shot in the foot Microsoft® made was "DirectX™ 12 Windows™ 10 lock-in". :D

I doubt MS will sue. Let's not forget that MS has invested a lot of effort into building bridges with the Linux community in the past few years. They have ported Ubuntu to Windows, open-sourced .NET, brought SQL server to Linux and even joined the Linux Foundation as part of their effort to promote the Azure platform.

Suing Valve would result in a massive backlash from the Linux community and destroy all the good-will that MS has built with Linux. Frankly, they would be shooting themselves in the foot.


Last edited by peterp771 on 22 August 2018 at 8:53 am UTC

I tried Nier Automata but it won't launch and shows an information window that said "Can't stablish connection with the server". Happened to anyone else?

Quoting: scaineI'm most concerned that this encourages devs to simply do DX again and is the death of Vulkan.

DXVK is there to translate from DX to Vulkan, and it's a key element for Proton to work, if there are more Dx titles means DXVK, and by effect, Vulkan are necessary so I find it unreasonable to think this would diminish Vulkan?