Valve officially confirm a new version of 'Steam Play' which includes a modified version of Wine

Quoting: Guest... Or the next build of Proton could break a previously working game....

You think?

The way I see it, but I may be wrong, on Proton not officially supported games, maybe breakage may happen, but on those that get a "Steam Play stamp", I figure these games will be dealt with just like PlayonLinux does, with a set of configurations that specifies which version of Wine/Proton/DXVK to use. It's a per game basis setup, I figure. Don't you think?

Where there may be bigger issues, is in the case of online games that gets updated weekly/monthly, where some new features included in an upcoming update may make these configurations obsolete... Let's wait and see what Valve has in mind for those use-cases... Still, if developers are carefull in their Windows development and take proton into account... It's not much of an effort, at this point...

Edit: Maybe we'll even see game studios supplying their own Proton configuration files. Impossible?


Last edited by Mohandevir on 22 August 2018 at 4:23 pm UTC

Quoting: MohandevirI don't know if it's been mentionned, this thread is way too long to read through, but Proton might become a Windows programming standard to create a Linux "plug&play" experience. Hiring qualified Linux developpers seem to be a problem for many game studios. If they start programming their Windows build with Proton in mind, they will have to maintain only one build, thus reducing the cost of Linux development. The resulting experience, as per Valve say, should be 1:1 on both platform. Linux will get more quality supported titles this way... I see it as a Win-Win situation.

In a couple of years, if ever Linux gets a 5% to 10% Steam market share and depending on what happens with UWP, we might see true linux native builds of new games, but at the moment, I think it's the best solution for Linux gaming adoption.

That's the view I'm coming round to myself. You have to look at it from Valve's point of view, seeing SteamOS as a platform, rather than ours, simply wanting more native Linux games. I think they're adopting something similar to “embrace, extend, extinguish” against Microsoft itself.

You see, it's easy to look at this and think that it means there'll be no point in developing native games any more, but if Valve can make SteamOS (forget the wider Linux ecosystem for a moment) a more attractive option for playing Windows games than Windows itself - free, maybe eventually more stable, better “quality of life” - even just for 10% of the market, then it's a net win. Just as an example to illustrate the way I'm thinking here, this will make any future generation of Steam Machines infinitely more attractive than the first one, especially once more of the bugs have been ironed out. Once they've gained a foothold in the market, Valve could then deprecate Proton for the next generation.

It's almost like taking a step back in order to be able to make more steps forward in the future.

Quoting: GuestI'm sure I will get attacked for this, but here goes. As per usual, disclaimer, my thoughts are my own and not that of VP, etc..

A big issue here is, does Proton really mean "Linux support" ? I don't think it does. Here's why.

When you get a port to Linux, even if it's by a third party, a lot of work has been done to bring that game over to the platform... even if a D3D wrapper has been used etc (i'm not going to go into the "lazy wrapper" argument). The porter is selling you a product that is certified by them to work with Linux, and has official backing of the original developer/publisher. If something doesn't work, or breaks, there is an official support method available. It is someones job to provide help on getting it working, and to fix that if it doesnt.

With Proton, the original developer and/or publisher doesn't have to do anything - that includes support the game running in any way on Linux. It is effectively the same situation has it has been for years with Wine - if it runs, great.. if not, it's not the original dev/publishers problem. They wont support you. As far as they are concerned, even if you bought on Linux, and it shows up on their ticker that it was a Linux sale, you bought a Windows product, and you are not running it via an officially supported method.

Nor will it be Valve's problem. There is no way they are going to provide support for every issue running every game on Linux. Nor will they be any more able to deal with bugs in those games on Proton than the Wine developers are. It could be years, or never, before you get a fix for a particular game not working. Or the next build of Proton could break a previously working game.

So, while I can see how Valve thinks this is a good thing for getting games on Linux, and getting gamers over to Linux, it in turn has a big impact to those of us who were bringing games over to Linux officially. I don't see how Proton is going to help us with the big issue of getting publishers interested in Linux as a platform... in fact, I see it doing the opposite.

Dude , you were ( VP and Feral ) were porting titles to Linux with % 0.5 market share and people were buying it.

We will still buy when you came out with a good port + some new users will buy them too.

Problem is , VP dropped porting when Steam Machine movement failed. Basically , you and big companies lost interest.

Big companies are not interested with Linux , with that userbase count.

Expanding user base is the only way , even for your third party ports.

Quoting: Comandante Ñoñardo

Quoting: Whitewolfe80I have a question/hypathetical question feral and vp would it not make sense for valve to buy both or one because then if a developer wants a linux port and they want to use feral gabe gets all the cash from point of contract to point of sale minus development overhead which if they bought feral they would gain the rights to use their tools for the port jobs they do. This would 1 create a very skilled linux software house within valve and 2 makes valve able to make linux more attractive to develop on perhaps by lowering the cut valve takes at point at sale for linux ports.

Meh maybe to much theorising there but it is going to be interesting to see what happens regarding Feral and VP i would say aspyr but they gave up on linux ages ago so i gave up on them.

Actually, is not bad the idea of Feral being acquired by Valve...
Acquiring Feral, Valve will acquire IndirectX, the most valuable asset from that company.. And will have a dedicated and qualified team for porting..

yeah was my thinking i guess its down to the money side of things valve arent strapped for cash but would they take up porting as part of its core i dont know but its an interesting question

I'm guessing because it's beta - but the "steam play" settings are not available in big screen mode, you need to exit that and go to the regular setting if you want to change anything.


I'm still on Linux Mint 18.3 ( = Ubuntu Xenial = 16.04 ) I guess I need to upgrade to Linux Mint 19 ( = Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 ) for this to work properly or is it enough to upgrade to Nvidia drivers?

"Proton counts as Linux."

Now that is huge!

OK! I am in a bit of challenge. I have Jagged Alliance - Back in Action Linux version. As everybody knows - it does not work. I would like to try Windows version through Steam Play, but how do I download Windows version? Linux version already uninstalled, Steam Play enabled.

Quoting: dibzB
The not great:

• Crazy Taxi: Loads, but crashes after pressing start.

Weird. Works flawlessly for me. Your system specs?

Quoting: Lcs006OK! I am in a bit of challenge. I have Jagged Alliance - Back in Action Linux version. As everybody knows - it does not work. I would like to try Windows version through Steam Play, but how do I download Windows version? Linux version already uninstalled, Steam Play enabled.

Only way would be to install windows steam client which would by pass steam play.

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: dibzB
The not great:

• Crazy Taxi: Loads, but crashes after pressing start.

Weird. Works flawlessly for me. Your system specs?

I had this earlier with Dishonoured and Skyrim they work but the performance is a lot lower that wine+ lutris however for others with the same 1060 card its flawless the only difference is our processors I have a ryzen 1600 currently both the other users have kabylake i5s, but am not sure thats the reason as more than a few run ryzen 5s in that google docs spreadsheet.

Quoting: GuestSo, while I can see how Valve thinks this is a good thing for getting games on Linux, and getting gamers over to Linux, it in turn has a big impact to those of us who were bringing games over to Linux officially. I don't see how Proton is going to help us with the big issue of getting publishers interested in Linux as a platform... in fact, I see it doing the opposite.

Well, I think Valve's move is more intended for peoples migrating to Linux with a library already full of Windows exclusive games (less dualboot will strengthen Linux marketshare on Steam), and even more intended for their "console-like" experience with Steam Machines (they resolve by this way the chicken and egg problem off not enough Linux gamers / not enough games available)... which is a way to protect their business as always (Steam for Linux and porting efforts of Valve's games with OpenGL benchmarks defeating DirectX were direct response to the risk of Microsoft hurting their marketshare with Windows store). But I think that many Linux gamers from the last years will continue to buy in priority games natively available or properly ported to Linux (at least it's how I will continue to spend my money on games in the near future). :)

Quoting: Guest... unless, of course, some amazing and groundbreaking first-person shooter gets released natively on Vulkan for SteamOS. ;)

What have you got on your mind?! :D

Sorry if this has been asked before - is Proton going to contribute back into Wine generally? I suppose I'm asking if DXVK progress helps Wine more generally?

Amazing. I've read this article 3 times already.

Quoting: chancho_zombieNow we need better Net framework support, IMO a good chunk of the games that don't run it's .Net fault.

Yes, same experience here: Batman, L.A. Noire...need .NET and today there are a lot of issue that block the install on 32 and 64 bits Wineprefix.
Windows media player is also need for Darksiders (remastered or not).

Hmmmmm... Proton on Github that MS owns.

Quoting: Mountain Man"Proton counts as Linux."

Now that is huge!

Yep, that is _the_ most important piece of information for me. Finally there is a chance to get better numbers regarding market/financial share between platforms. I really hope that Linux will rise from the 0.5% to a much more significant percentage. Once the numbers increase developers will keep Linux much more in mind when starting a project.

Regarding Feral, I really hope that they will continue to provide us with a high-quality ports like recently RoTTR or soon LiS:BTS, at least once in a while. I'll certainly continue to buy from their store. Like someone already stated, may be they will end up eventually with even more work. I would love that.

Quoting: scaineSorry if this has been asked before - is Proton going to contribute back into Wine generally? I suppose I'm asking if DXVK progress helps Wine more generally?

They contribute to wine, see https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/86

Quoting: GuestSo, while I can see how Valve thinks this is a good thing for getting games on Linux, and getting gamers over to Linux, it in turn has a big impact to those of us who were bringing games over to Linux officially. I don't see how Proton is going to help us with the big issue of getting publishers interested in Linux as a platform... in fact, I see it doing the opposite.

Gonna have to disagree. This is the chicken versus egg problem and it has to be sorted out one way or another. Valve and GoG can either get together and require linux ports of every new title OR they could go this route. Valve has sunk a bunch of money into this to provide a way out for them that want it, so it's rather obvious that Valve is favoring Linux. In the short term yes, this is going to hurt the odds of Linux ports to major titles, but at the same time it incentivises an increase in use of Vulkan as that makes it easy to run in PROTON. In the long term that grows the user base, and a large user base gets catered to.

We will get one of two outcomes here. 1)We will either get a large enough user base that big devs shift their first their APIs to be more friendly with PROTON and then a shift to native ports to avoid user experience issues.

2) PROTON plays all the games seamlessly from Steam, and eventually is so good that it doesn't matter whether we get a port or not.

The results are the same for practical purposes.

Now that is for new titles going forward, but what about Steam's existing library of titles that WILL NEVER GET A LINUX PORT? Do you think Ubisoft is gonna hand a Feral a contract top port Assassin's Creed and Far Cry? How about EA for anybody that feels like playing Crysis? A whole bunch of my games on Steam don't even work with WINE like Sleeping Dogs, but this push by Valve has the best chance of fixing that.

It will be very awesome if EA follow this example..
If they don't want to port their games to Linux, at least make a Linux Origin client with an embedded compatibility layer like this.