What started as a large article talking to developers about Steam Play required splitting off before it became too big. For now, I give you a chat with the developer of DXVK, Philip Rebohle.
For those that aren't quite up to speed, DXVK is a project that provides a Vulkan-based D3D11 and D3D10 implementation for Wine. It's part of what makes Valve's Steam Play "Proton" work. In simple terms, games built to run on Windows via DirectX can be run with DXVK/Proton, so that they can be played on Linux.
I believe that DXVK and Steam Play are some of the most interesting projects to come out in the last few years, which could possibly help push Linux gaming forward. You can see more of my own thoughts in the previous article. I don't want to ramble on too much about what's already said, so here it is below.
GOL: Firstly, as the developer of DXVK, how did you get started with Vulkan and DirectX?
DXVK: “I've always had an interest in graphics programming and used OpenGL in the past for some hobby projects that never really evolved into anything useful, and started experimenting with Vulkan once it came out.
My first contact with D3D11 was actually when I tried to debug a rendering issue with a D3D11 game on wined3d, but since most of its concepts are very similar to what we have in OpenGL and Vulkan, it wasn't too hard to figure out. Except of course for the parts where Microsoft's documentation is terrible, and there are a lot of those... sorry, I just had to rant about that.”
GOL: What gave you the idea for DXVK? Why did you decide to make it?
DXVK: “It's a combination of being dissatisfied with the performance of wine's own D3D11 implementation, not wanting to dual-boot to Windows anymore, and being inspired by the VK9 project which I had been keeping an eye on for some time. And I really wanted to get one specific game to work.”
GOL: Since you're now contracted by Valve, how did that happen? Must have been quite a shock initially to have Valve approach you?
DXVK: “It wasn't all that spectacular - they contacted me when News made the round that DXVK could run Nier [NieR:Automata] back in late January, and when offered to work full-time on the project after a friendly chat, I couldn't really refuse.
There are a lot of things that probably would not have happened if Valve hadn't been backing the project - such as driver developers fixing their Vulkan drivers for DXVK or reporting bugs, or Vulkan getting a transform feedback extension.”
GOL: Do Valve give you much input in the direction of DXVK or do you continue to work on it freely, simply with the backing of Valve to allow you extra time on it?
DXVK: "There are some things that I probably wouldn't have done without them requesting it, such as adding OpenVR support or focusing on certain games early on, or trying to squeeze more performance out of specific workloads. But I spent most of the time just improving overall game compatibility and performance."
GOL: There have been a lot of people asking about anti-cheat, things like Easy Anti-Cheat, BattlEye and so on where the games won't run in Steam Play/Wine. People seem confused where the problem really is. Is it something Wine needs to solve to support them?
DXVK: "I'm certainly not an expert on anti-cheat or DRM technology, but those that don't work are typically very invasive, access Windows kernel APIs, rely on undocumented APIs, and may prevent debugging. All of that makes it very hard for Wine to support them."
GOL: How has the reception been to DXVK? Has it changed since Steam Play?
DXVK: “Depends on who you ask. People who just wanted to play their games on Linux were generally excited when DXVK started running more and more of their games, part of the wine community isn't exactly happy about it being a separate project, and there are of course those who dislike wine in general, but more on that later.
Has it changed since Steam Play? I don't think so. Things just have calmed down over time. Many of those using Proton now have been using Wine, Lutris, DXVK etc. before, and new users seem to be happy with Proton as a whole, which DXVK is a part of.”
GOL: Any hopes for the future for DXVK? How do you feel about developers concerns with it possibly causing less native Linux ports?
DXVK: “It should hopefully fulfil its purpose and make users who currently dual-boot or run some crazy VM setup for gaming switch to Linux as their primary gaming platform, and maybe attract a few new users altogether.
I genuinely don't know if it'll reduce the number of native ports. Maybe it will, maybe we'll get more ports due to a higher market share, maybe some studios will adopt Vulkan for better compatibility with Proton - anything can happen. And while I'd take a good port over wine any day of the week, there's one thing that everyone seems to forget in this discussion: It increases the number of playable games on our platform, and that just can't be a bad thing.”
Thanks again for having a chat! It's always great to get some background on such important projects like this. I have to agree with Rebohle's ending remark there too, having more games be compatible on Linux is going to be good for us in the long run.
We should have more articles up from other developers in future. Depending on responses this may come in one big feature or a few smaller articles over the next few weeks. We're casting a wide net, so if you're a developer of a game, a game engine, a game porter or anything of the sorts and want to have a chat about Steam Play, do get in touch!
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Curious:
What do the Wine people themselves think? I mean, the actual developers/contributors?
What are the chances DXVK will become part of Wine?
Or to be more general: Other parts of Proton?
Arehandoro Sep 11, 2018
I pretty much have the same opinion that Philip. Looking positive to the Linux Gaming future for now.
I do not have a great deal of knowledge about using Steam Play/Wine to run Window games. I have kept my life simple by only playing Steam games that support Linux. This approach has worked out brilliantly, but I am curious about the compatibility issues with various Windows games.
Which Windows based games are the most notorious for having invasive DRM and anti-cheat technology?
Whereas it all boils down to us using the OS we want to use (which means software makers must support us if we want our computers to be useful) and us wanting as many people as possible to use it (which means the OS must be fit for general use).
We're getting there, but the constant bickering and animosity between the different parts of the open source community is not helping.
And I really wanted to get one specific game to work.
So... which game? :P
There are some things that I probably wouldn't have done without them requesting it, such as adding OpenVR support [...]
Unless I'm mistaken, Beat Saber uses DirectX and OpenVR (for Vive), which means DXVK is part of what allows me to play the game on Linux with Proton. I'm quite happy with Valve's request and your work.
i very much see some publishers and devs going ok so they will use proton to play our games so we have demand
now lets port our next game native now that we know linux users actually want games from us
That's the way I see it as well. Perhaps Valve can convince developers to do the little extra effort to make sure their game works OK with Proton (or, dare I even say, to take Steam Play and Proton into account when choosing middleware and making their game) and then, when Linux market share inevitably grows, developers will say OK, now it makes sense to make a native version.
If these companies are successful and locking down their products, let's be honest the vast majority of regular users won't want to go through the hassle of switching to Linux. Game devs will be forced to sell through the various app stores and Microsoft and Apple will both take big cuts (I think it's 30% at the moment). Valve's business model would die, and they'll either have to shrink considerably and go back to developing games (haha!) , or see the company go under.
Steam play and all the associated Technologies or a way of protecting against that. Sure, Steam Machines weren't that successful, but if Microsoft and Apple start charging huge amounts to use their operating systems and make it impossible to play games you've already bought through Steam, suddenly they're much more viable product. "Hey look guys we've done all the hard work, buy this machine or use this OS and all your Steam games will keep working. Oh also you can also keep buying more games at our steam sale prices!" It's also a huge Boon for tiny developers that wouldn't have any clout to negotiate with Microsoft for a place in the Windows Store.
I really applaud Valve for their efforts, especially in keeping it open source, and think it's a great thing for open source, gaming in general and the Linux community. In the short term it might mean one or two Linux ports don't get made, but in the long-term I think developers will begin to realize the importance of Linux as an open platform resistant against money-grabbing efforts by Microsoft and Apple.
Last edited by dodrian on 11 September 2018 at 5:27 pm UTC
Unless I'm mistaken, Beat Saber uses DirectX and OpenVR (for Vive), which means DXVK is part of what allows me to play the game on Linux with Proton. I'm quite happy with Valve's request and your work.Yep, Beat Saber uses the DXVK+OpenVR combo. It was the game for me to work with, and it was a pain to get it to work because of how VR initialization works. In case of Vulkan, you need to enable certain device and instance extensions, which basically requires initialization to happen in a specific order, but D3D11 doesn't have *any* restrictions on that, so a lot of trickery was required to get it to work.
Curious:
What do the Wine people themselves think? I mean, the actual developers/contributors?
https://www.codeweavers.com/about/blogs/jwhite/2018/8/22/wine-and-steam-a-major-milestone
:)
Unless I'm mistaken, Beat Saber uses DirectX and OpenVR (for Vive), which means DXVK is part of what allows me to play the game on Linux with Proton. I'm quite happy with Valve's request and your work.Yep, Beat Saber uses the DXVK+OpenVR combo. It was the game for me to work with, and it was a pain to get it to work because of how VR initialization works. In case of Vulkan, you need to enable certain device and instance extensions, which basically requires initialization to happen in a specific order, but D3D11 doesn't have *any* restrictions on that, so a lot of trickery was required to get it to work.
I'm really happy that you made this DXVK+OpenVR, im enjoying it a lot! :D thank you so much. Keep going!
Last edited by bubexel on 11 September 2018 at 7:00 pm UTC
It's sad that people would be upset that Proton is a separate project than Wine. Valve has in my opinion done everything right with this. They've hired the actual Wine devs to make changes and made everything 100% open source which allows the Wine devs to backport anything they want into the Wine project. Valve needed this to be a separate project so they wouldn't be hindered by philosophies that differ from their own. They are a business and they need it to work for gaming, not office packages, not utilities, etc. They needed this project to be separate to make leaps and bounds and reach their long-term goals without snags. Whoever is upset about that simply isn't using their heads about how much Valve has done for the Wine project and Linux gaming.I don't think that's what he was saying. I think he was saying people are salty that DXVK is not part of wine although maybe I misunderstood.
It's sad that people would be upset that Proton is a separate project than Wine. Valve has in my opinion done everything right with this....
The very first thing I noticed was a small but vocal bunch arguing about who deserves the credit for this and that. It's petty, and everything being done by Valve is furthering the growth of the Linux user base so I say hail the big company as a hero because it's brought all of the disparate pieces together at their own expense to give us a better deal overall. Valve's goal is to not let Microsoft wall off Windows. Our goal is to grow Linux to the point that we get native ports automatically because we are large enough to cater to. Our goals do not conflict in any way because Valve and Linux both benefit in every outcome.
So who cares who gets the attaboys as long as it gets done?
Unless I'm mistaken, Beat Saber uses DirectX and OpenVR (for Vive), which means DXVK is part of what allows me to play the game on Linux with Proton. I'm quite happy with Valve's request and your work.Yep, Beat Saber uses the DXVK+OpenVR combo. It was the game for me to work with, and it was a pain to get it to work because of how VR initialization works. In case of Vulkan, you need to enable certain device and instance extensions, which basically requires initialization to happen in a specific order, but D3D11 doesn't have *any* restrictions on that, so a lot of trickery was required to get it to work.
I don't know who you are exactly, but whatever part you had in this THANK YOU. This may just seem like just a game thing, but that game thing will open up the world to a future without being dependent on any big tech giant like Microsoft or Apple. We cannot thank any of you enough for that.
Last edited by jarhead_h on 11 September 2018 at 7:39 pm UTC
I'm now playing GTA5 and Assetto Corsa. ROTTR was a beautiful port from Feral and I guess ED is just around the corner too. Magic!
Thank you so much for everyone involved!
PS: I had my doubts with the effects of DXVK in the beginning, fearing that Linux will become more and more invisible behind wine, but now knowing that Proton counts as Linux I'm all in.
Last edited by jens on 11 September 2018 at 7:43 pm UTC
I think, Proton is great.+1
My thanks to everybody who has contributed to this. First of all, the Wine guys, Valve, Mr. Philip Rebohle here and of course all those other people that made this possible.+1
I am really happy with the state of the Linux gaming. However I have one fear though. What is going to happen if Microsoft releases new Windows and they force DX12 on it? Will it be simple to add it to DXVK, because Vulkan and DX12 are similar, or will it be like reinventing the wheel once again?
P.S. Is Philip Rebohle registered on our site as YoRHa-2B?
Patreon
PayPal
See more from me