Valve have now pushed out all the recent beta changes in Steam Play's Proton to everyone

Quoting: FeistHowever, if there´s even the *slightest* chanse that one or more of them will get a native port at some point, I´d naturally abstain from buying until I can buy native.

You can't go wrong with my five-year rule. Set a shorter “quarantine” period if you can't wait that long. :)

I have to admit though, I am tempted by a few titles that will almost certainly never have native ports. The fact that Proton counts as a Linux sale makes a difference, I think. It doesn't help the porters obviously, so like you I'll still give games that have any chance of being ported a wide berth (I'm a fan of driving games, and Codemasters have been a fairly safe bet in the past, for example), but I feel less bad about handing over money to the likes of Bethesda now that they'll know it's not just another Windows sale.

Steam Play <3

With this I bought games that I hadn't played for years:

-Bioshock;
-Bioshock 2;
-Borderlands;
-Cuphead;
-GTA San Andreas;
-The Last Remnant;
-Spore;
-The Witcher -Enhanced Edition-;
-Worms Armageddon;
-Worms Ultimate Mayhem.

All working perfectly with my Desktop NVIDIA!

I'm still selecting more games to buy

Many thanks to those responsible for this! Continue!

Quoting: GuestNo Feral port, no money. At some point, we need to support those who support us, dude. I love the Tomb Raider reboot games but won't play Shadow without a native port, unless 3 or more years pass and Feral decides not to port it.

This.

They've already ported the first two games, so it's pretty likely they'll port the third game at some point... I don't like the fact that they're (the reboot "Tomb Raider" games) not on GOG.com, but I'll absolutely buy the other two games because Feral look after us, so the least I can do is look after them, by purchasing a full-price copy of the second and third games (with only rare exceptions, I refuse to purchase Linux games at a discount)(unfortunately, I was still-booting when I bought the first game though!).


Last edited by Cyba.Cowboy on 15 September 2018 at 7:12 am UTC

Quoting: ewertonuriasSteam Play <3

With this I bought games that I hadn't played for years:

-Bioshock;
-Bioshock 2;
-Borderlands;
-Cuphead;
-GTA San Andreas;
-The Last Remnant;
-Spore;
-The Witcher -Enhanced Edition-;
-Worms Armageddon;
-Worms Ultimate Mayhem.

All working perfectly with my Desktop NVIDIA!

I'm still selecting more games to buy

Many thanks to those responsible for this! Continue!

Worms Armageddon is working perfectly for you? In fullscreen? I couldn't even switch resolution from default one (640×480)...

Quoting: Cyba.Cowboy

Quoting: GuestNo Feral port, no money. At some point, we need to support those who support us, dude. I love the Tomb Raider reboot games but won't play Shadow without a native port, unless 3 or more years pass and Feral decides not to port it.

This.

They've already ported the first two games, so it's pretty likely they'll port the third game at some point... I don't like the fact that they're (the reboot "Tomb Raider" games) not on GOG.com, but I'll absolutely buy the other two games because Feral look after us, so the least I can do is look after them, by purchasing a full-price copy of the second and third games (with only rare exceptions, I refuse to purchase Linux games at a discount)(unfortunately, I was still-booting when I bought the first game though!).

In theory I agree with you guys. Feral is a company, that we owe most of the AAA titles. We need to support them as much as possible.
But...
Without clear agenda of releases it's not ok to expect from us that we're not going to buy new games, that just works, because they may have port in next 2 or 3 years.
We need to adapt to new reality, so as Feral.
I also don't like "No Tux, no Bucks" approach for Proton titles at the moment. Valve invested money in Proton / Wine / DXVK. Now very often I read that people are going to use Steam Play only for titles that they already have in their libraries. Personally I think this is the worst approach that you can imagine. Of course while testing Proton that's fine, but when it's released, only buying new titles that are meant to be run on Proton will generate real money return for Valve's investment.
Sure, we can buy 3 years old titles to achieve that, but very often 10 titles that are 3-5 years old will cost less than just released game.

So maybe it's good idea to buy few titles that are not so old and run well with Proton instead of writing everywhere "No Tux, no Bucks".

Quoting: wojtek88

Quoting: Cyba.Cowboy

Quoting: GuestNo Feral port, no money. At some point, we need to support those who support us, dude. I love the Tomb Raider reboot games but won't play Shadow without a native port, unless 3 or more years pass and Feral decides not to port it.

This.

They've already ported the first two games, so it's pretty likely they'll port the third game at some point... I don't like the fact that they're (the reboot "Tomb Raider" games) not on GOG.com, but I'll absolutely buy the other two games because Feral look after us, so the least I can do is look after them, by purchasing a full-price copy of the second and third games (with only rare exceptions, I refuse to purchase Linux games at a discount)(unfortunately, I was still-booting when I bought the first game though!).

In theory I agree with you guys. Feral is a company, that we owe most of the AAA titles. We need to support them as much as possible.
But...
Without clear agenda of releases it's not ok to expect from us that we're not going to buy new games, that just works, because they may have port in next 2 or 3 years.
We need to adapt to new reality, so as Feral.
I also don't like "No Tux, no Bucks" approach for Proton titles at the moment. Valve invested money in Proton / Wine / DXVK. Now very often I read that people are going to use Steam Play only for titles that they already have in their libraries. Personally I think this is the worst approach that you can imagine. Of course while testing Proton that's fine, but when it's released, only buying new titles that are meant to be run on Proton will generate real money return for Valve's investment.
Sure, we can buy 3 years old titles to achieve that, but very often 10 titles that are 3-5 years old will cost less than just released game.

So maybe it's good idea to buy few titles that are not so old and run well with Proton instead of writing everywhere "No Tux, no Bucks".

Valve doesn't care which or how many games you buy, they only care how much you spend. They get the same cut either way if you spend $60 on one Windows game or 6 ten-dollar Linux games. The purpose of Proton isn't to drive sales per se, it's to make Linux a more credible threat to Microsoft. If Proton emboldens someone to uninstall Windows, or to just use it less, or to try Linux for the first time, those are all big returns on Valve's investment, even if they never buy another Windows game.

I'm not necessarily saying you should never buy newer Windows games to play on Proton -- it's up to everyone to choose how strict they wanna be about supporting Linux devs -- I'm just saying you don't need to overthink "repaying" Valve for Proton.

Quoting: Smoke39

Quoting: wojtek88

Quoting: Cyba.Cowboy

Quoting: GuestNo Feral port, no money. At some point, we need to support those who support us, dude. I love the Tomb Raider reboot games but won't play Shadow without a native port, unless 3 or more years pass and Feral decides not to port it.

This.

They've already ported the first two games, so it's pretty likely they'll port the third game at some point... I don't like the fact that they're (the reboot "Tomb Raider" games) not on GOG.com, but I'll absolutely buy the other two games because Feral look after us, so the least I can do is look after them, by purchasing a full-price copy of the second and third games (with only rare exceptions, I refuse to purchase Linux games at a discount)(unfortunately, I was still-booting when I bought the first game though!).

In theory I agree with you guys. Feral is a company, that we owe most of the AAA titles. We need to support them as much as possible.
But...
Without clear agenda of releases it's not ok to expect from us that we're not going to buy new games, that just works, because they may have port in next 2 or 3 years.
We need to adapt to new reality, so as Feral.
I also don't like "No Tux, no Bucks" approach for Proton titles at the moment. Valve invested money in Proton / Wine / DXVK. Now very often I read that people are going to use Steam Play only for titles that they already have in their libraries. Personally I think this is the worst approach that you can imagine. Of course while testing Proton that's fine, but when it's released, only buying new titles that are meant to be run on Proton will generate real money return for Valve's investment.
Sure, we can buy 3 years old titles to achieve that, but very often 10 titles that are 3-5 years old will cost less than just released game.

So maybe it's good idea to buy few titles that are not so old and run well with Proton instead of writing everywhere "No Tux, no Bucks".

Valve doesn't care which or how many games you buy, they only care how much you spend. They get the same cut either way if you spend $60 on one Windows game or 6 ten-dollar Linux games. The purpose of Proton isn't to drive sales per se, it's to make Linux a more credible threat to Microsoft. If Proton emboldens someone to uninstall Windows, or to just use it less, or to try Linux for the first time, those are all big returns on Valve's investment, even if they never buy another Windows game.

I'm not necessarily saying you should never buy newer Windows games to play on Proton -- it's up to everyone to choose how strict they wanna be about supporting Linux devs -- I'm just saying you don't need to overthink "repaying" Valve for Proton.

In general we agree. But you talk now only about long time plan.

We, as Linux gamers, do not apply to long time plan, as we are already on board, Microsoft decisions won't hurt the marketshare we provide.

So there are 2 ways that we can support Valve at the moment:
1) Buy games on Steam directly. No matter if it is Linux native, proton based, EON wrapped, wine wrapped version.
2) Talk to our friends and recommend them to try Linux.

My problem is, that I personally won't do #2 as it was always problematic for me. There were several issues - I convinced teacher in my family to switch to Ubuntu.
After one month she was complaining about not working copy / paste, printing in Word under Wine which was a blocker (seriously).
My girlfriend had problems with Photoshop. Few colleagues resigned because of missing games (all this was around 2013 when I was doing final switch).

So I recommend we do buy games :)

Quoting: Smoke39The purpose of Proton isn't to drive sales per se, it's to make Linux a more credible threat to Microsoft. If Proton emboldens someone to uninstall Windows, or to just use it less, or to try Linux for the first time, those are all big returns on Valve's investment, even if they never buy another Windows game.

The obvious purpose of Proton is to push Steam Machines and SteamOS... If all (or the majority of) Windows games "just work" under SteamOS, then there's even less reasons for Steam users to be using a Microsoft Windows-based operating system and more reason for them to be using SteamOS - which means more direct control/influence of PC gamers by Valve Software.

Realistically, SteamOS in its current state is a solution suitable only for Linux fanboys... With Proton, well it's potentially something that could compete directly with PCs and every console on the market.

That's an awfully big slice of the gaming pie that any company with half a brain would like a piece of...


Last edited by Cyba.Cowboy on 15 September 2018 at 3:50 pm UTC

I love Proton! I really hope the developers are able to see how many Linux users are enjoying Proton. Yay, Skyrim and Neverwinter (the MMO- yes, NWN Enhanced is amazing, as well, but it works native, which is great, but that's not what this conversation is about, so...)!

I have also started checking out the free to play games that I couldn't play before. Path Of Exile is pretty damn cool, if you're into MMORPG-types. It has a very Diabloesque look and feel to it.

Quoting: lucifertdark

Quoting: Dunc

Quoting: lucifertdark32bit Prefixes for those games that absolutely need it.
.NET working in 64bit prefixes if possible, we wouldn't need 32bit prefixes that way.

Definitely. .NET's a big sticking-point for a lot of games. And it really shouldn't be.

QuoteNo more 0byte downloads every time I fire up Steam.

I was getting a lot of those for a couple of months before Proton dropped. Whether it's related or not, I don't know. But they do need to figure out a better way of updating Proton itself.

QuoteAn easier way to configure prefixes than Winetricks, or a proper gui for it that makes sense.

I don't know if that'll happen, given that the whole point is to make it seamless so you don't have to configure anything.

Something in the Beta channel, to help users try out and suggest fixes, wouldn't be a bad idea though. But I expect Valve probably assume that anyone doing that kind of thing already knows how Winetricks works.

Thinking about it, perhaps they could find a way to integrate what Winetricks & Winecfg do into Steam directly but keep it under an advanced settings menu that only shows up if you choose the Proton Beta.

OK, I'm just imagining this backend data-gathering thing. Like, they do what you're saying there, right? And then they have a database so when anyone uses the options it (leaving them anonymous) records what options people tried for what games and how long they played after. So then, like, you'd create this information base where you could tell what people tried that resulted in them actually playing the game and you could record that as like a default thing that the next iteration of Proton could do to make the games work.

Quoting: wojtek88

Quoting: ewertonuriasSteam Play <3

With this I bought games that I hadn't played for years:

-Bioshock;
-Bioshock 2;
-Borderlands;
-Cuphead;
-GTA San Andreas;
-The Last Remnant;
-Spore;
-The Witcher -Enhanced Edition-;
-Worms Armageddon;
-Worms Ultimate Mayhem.

All working perfectly with my Desktop NVIDIA!

I'm still selecting more games to buy

Many thanks to those responsible for this! Continue!

Worms Armageddon is working perfectly for you? In fullscreen? I couldn't even switch resolution from default one (640×480)...

Quoting: Cyba.Cowboy

Quoting: GuestNo Feral port, no money. At some point, we need to support those who support us, dude. I love the Tomb Raider reboot games but won't play Shadow without a native port, unless 3 or more years pass and Feral decides not to port it.

This.

They've already ported the first two games, so it's pretty likely they'll port the third game at some point... I don't like the fact that they're (the reboot "Tomb Raider" games) not on GOG.com, but I'll absolutely buy the other two games because Feral look after us, so the least I can do is look after them, by purchasing a full-price copy of the second and third games (with only rare exceptions, I refuse to purchase Linux games at a discount)(unfortunately, I was still-booting when I bought the first game though!).

In theory I agree with you guys. Feral is a company, that we owe most of the AAA titles. We need to support them as much as possible.
But...
Without clear agenda of releases it's not ok to expect from us that we're not going to buy new games, that just works, because they may have port in next 2 or 3 years.
We need to adapt to new reality, so as Feral.
I also don't like "No Tux, no Bucks" approach for Proton titles at the moment. Valve invested money in Proton / Wine / DXVK. Now very often I read that people are going to use Steam Play only for titles that they already have in their libraries. Personally I think this is the worst approach that you can imagine. Of course while testing Proton that's fine, but when it's released, only buying new titles that are meant to be run on Proton will generate real money return for Valve's investment.
Sure, we can buy 3 years old titles to achieve that, but very often 10 titles that are 3-5 years old will cost less than just released game.

So maybe it's good idea to buy few titles that are not so old and run well with Proton instead of writing everywhere "No Tux, no Bucks".

I think if you want to continue "no Tux, no bucks" approach that's fine. Steamplay isn't, directly, about us anyway. Those of us who are Linux gamers already and Steam customers already were going to buy games on Steam and we were going to spend more or less whatever we were going to spend. There are plenty enough games already on Linux that there would be nothing stopping us from blowing that budget. It doesn't matter to Valve if we spend $X buying native Linux games or spend $X buying games we can play using Steamplay, they get $X * 30% either way.
It doesn't even matter to Valve in immediate dollar terms whether Windows users can readily switch to Linux or not. Same deal--they spend $ on Windows, they'd spend the same $ on Linux.
So to be spending money on Steamplay, their objectives have to be strategic--hedging against the prospect of Windows stores killing their business, the possibility of getting a bunch of extra money from sales on console-like Steam Machine thingies running Linux, stuff like that. The fact that it makes existing Linux customers more pleased with Steam is a very minor perk, and whether those existing Linux customers decide to diversify their game portfolio to Windows titles matters not at all.

But it might matter to actual game developers at least a little bit, and game porters such as Feral. So there remains a point to "no Tux, no bucks" and there's no tactical downside, so for those who are willing to continue with that attitude I think that's a fine thing. I myself am probably in that category kind of accidentally--I'm far from a hard core gamer, I currently own more Linux native games than I can play, have more Linux native games on my wishlist than I can buy, and most of my knowledge of other games I might buy or put on my wishlist in the future comes from reading GoL so I'm largely unaware of all the Windows-only titles I ought to want. So no Tux, no awareness I should spend bucks. I'm fine with that.