Popular retro-inspired FPS DUSK still coming to Linux, due sometime next year

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: GuestCan someone explain why these "retro" games look worse than Quake, the actual first big 3D FPS?

This is ridiculous. Making a Quake mod in a Quake source port would immediately look better than this.

Quake being the first actual big FPS? Well, I guess if you ignore Doom... but Doom is pretty hard to ignore.

Well to be fair, he did say first big "3D" fps

I never really understood the argument of Doom not being 3D, yeah it accomplishes the effect in a bizarre and limited manner, but the end result is a world space which is perceivably three dimensional.
I could probably argue that Quake isn't 3D either and that it's just a bunch of triangles being dynamically warped on screen

Well yeah, doom played in a 3 dimensional way.. but the walls, the ceiling, the floor, the gun models, the enemy models.. All 2D based

Where as Quake used actual 3D rendering of the enemy models, gun models ect.

In the end I'd still describe Doom as being 3D as even the True 3D graphics of Quake are an illusion formed by algorithms. Now it's much more complicated and close to life, but it's still justa bunch of 2D triangles being streched, warped, and overlapped on your screen to produce 3D environment and entities.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: GuestCan someone explain why these "retro" games look worse than Quake, the actual first big 3D FPS?

This is ridiculous. Making a Quake mod in a Quake source port would immediately look better than this.

Quake being the first actual big FPS? Well, I guess if you ignore Doom... but Doom is pretty hard to ignore.

The same assets in a different engine ain't gonna look any better, you're just gonna be artificially limiting yourself to the source port's quirks, hard-coded mechanics, and a probably rather limiting level editor.
Could a Quake source port even have an unlocked y-axis without modification of the source code? I dunno, but it sounds a lot easier to pull of in Unity either way.

I don't ignore DOOM, i play it all the time, but ignore the 3D part and just pretend DOOM is a true 3D game...sigh.

Then make different assets on a tested engine....Ion Maiden??

...unlocked y Axis in quake? huh?

Making different assets on a tested engine? Ion Maiden is the only commercial game I can think of that uses the Eduke32 engine while I could think of hundreds of games which use Unity, I'd say Unity is far more tested than the engine Ion Maiden uses. Also Unity undoubtedly has better documentation as well and that can make all the difference terms of ease of use for the developer. That's all beside the point though, making different assets in a different engine ain't gonna change the developer's artistic skills, unless the dev chooses to hire a proper artist than no matter what engine he uses it'll all likely look pretty bad.

Yeah, in Dusk while your in midair the camera's y-axis is unlocked allowing the player to do midair flips, It's rather fun and unique.

What ratio would you give to stable Unity games vs Buggy mess? Unity is not known for well programed, compatibility and performance.
Now, how many tens of mods does Eduke32 support? the documentation appears to be good enough for anyone to just mod that game and be much more creative than "Professional" Unity game makers.

Unity having a lot of buggy and amateur games on it is a bi-product of it's ease of use and good documentation, unlike Eduke32 every little problem you may have or feature you want to implement in Unity all can be resolved by a quick google search and a youtube tutorial, that factor attracts a lot of amateur game developers who don't know what they're doing thus resulting in larger amounts of mediocre games, but on the flip side it saves a good developer a lot of time with its rather small learning curve thus resulting in rather amazing products like Cities Skylines and Cuphead.
I just don't think Eduke32 is flexible enough, everything you make in it is just gonna be a glorified Duke Nukem mod and implementing unique game mechanics and graphical effects may be far more effort than its worth. Personally I wouldn't use Eduke32 as I'd have to learn how to use Mapster32, why would I want to learn how to make environments in this software I've never used when I could just utilize my extensive knowledge of Blender and get a better product in less time?

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: GuestCan someone explain why these "retro" games look worse than Quake, the actual first big 3D FPS?

This is ridiculous. Making a Quake mod in a Quake source port would immediately look better than this.

Quake being the first actual big FPS? Well, I guess if you ignore Doom... but Doom is pretty hard to ignore.

Well to be fair, he did say first big "3D" fps

I never really understood the argument of Doom not being 3D, yeah it accomplishes the effect in a bizarre and limited manner, but the end result is a world space which is perceivably three dimensional.
I could probably argue that Quake isn't 3D either and that it's just a bunch of triangles being dynamically warped on screen

Well yeah, doom played in a 3 dimensional way.. but the walls, the ceiling, the floor, the gun models, the enemy models.. All 2D based

Where as Quake used actual 3D rendering of the enemy models, gun models ect.

In the end I'd still describe Doom as being 3D as even the True 3D graphics of Quake are an illusion formed by algorithms. Now it's much more complicated and close to life, but it's still justa bunch of 2D triangles being streched, warped, and overlapped on your screen to produce 3D environment and entities.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: GuestCan someone explain why these "retro" games look worse than Quake, the actual first big 3D FPS?

This is ridiculous. Making a Quake mod in a Quake source port would immediately look better than this.

Quake being the first actual big FPS? Well, I guess if you ignore Doom... but Doom is pretty hard to ignore.

The same assets in a different engine ain't gonna look any better, you're just gonna be artificially limiting yourself to the source port's quirks, hard-coded mechanics, and a probably rather limiting level editor.
Could a Quake source port even have an unlocked y-axis without modification of the source code? I dunno, but it sounds a lot easier to pull of in Unity either way.

I don't ignore DOOM, i play it all the time, but ignore the 3D part and just pretend DOOM is a true 3D game...sigh.

Then make different assets on a tested engine....Ion Maiden??

...unlocked y Axis in quake? huh?

Making different assets on a tested engine? Ion Maiden is the only commercial game I can think of that uses the Eduke32 engine while I could think of hundreds of games which use Unity, I'd say Unity is far more tested than the engine Ion Maiden uses. Also Unity undoubtedly has better documentation as well and that can make all the difference terms of ease of use for the developer. That's all beside the point though, making different assets in a different engine ain't gonna change the developer's artistic skills, unless the dev chooses to hire a proper artist than no matter what engine he uses it'll all likely look pretty bad.

Yeah, in Dusk while your in midair the camera's y-axis is unlocked allowing the player to do midair flips, It's rather fun and unique.

What ratio would you give to stable Unity games vs Buggy mess? Unity is not known for well programed, compatibility and performance.
Now, how many tens of mods does Eduke32 support? the documentation appears to be good enough for anyone to just mod that game and be much more creative than "Professional" Unity game makers.

Unity having a lot of buggy and amateur games on it is a bi-product of it's ease of use and good documentation, unlike Eduke32 every little problem you may have or feature you want to implement in Unity all can be resolved by a quick google search and a youtube tutorial, that factor attracts a lot of amateur game developers who don't know what they're doing thus resulting in larger amounts of mediocre games, but on the flip side it saves a good developer a lot of time with its rather small learning curve thus resulting in rather amazing products like Cities Skylines and Cuphead.
I just don't think Eduke32 is flexible enough, everything you make in it is just gonna be a glorified Duke Nukem mod and implementing unique game mechanics and graphical effects may be far more effort than its worth. Personally I wouldn't use Eduke32 as I'd have to learn how to use Mapster32, why would I want to learn how to make environments in this software I've never used when I could just utilize my extensive knowledge of Blender and get a better product in less time?

Because if you are making a retro inspired/looking game, using these open engines gives you a far more authentic feeling than the vast majority of retro looking games that are released in modern engines. By using eduke32 Ion Maiden get both a unique look and authenticity. By using ID tech engine source ports, the games get authentic retro look and are still able to have different game mechanics. The Dark Mod was made from an engine used for a shooter for example. The retro look comes from using the era appropriate limitations with some new benefits such as higher resolution. Low resolution Pixel art textures look hideous when filtering is used (Quake is an obvious example where the filtering just washes away details) and when modern photo-realistic lighting is used. It falls into the Uncanny Valley.

If you took all the same assets from Quake and ported them over to Unity they'd still look the same, you can combat a lack of authenticity with a firm understanding of the technical limitations the original had. Plus I'd argue that a lot of source ports offer so much visual enhancements compared to the original that most authenticity via limitations is lost.

Bah, none of this even matters, I don't care if DUSK is piss ugly, it's fun and that's all that matters.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: GuestCan someone explain why these "retro" games look worse than Quake, the actual first big 3D FPS?

This is ridiculous. Making a Quake mod in a Quake source port would immediately look better than this.

Quake being the first actual big FPS? Well, I guess if you ignore Doom... but Doom is pretty hard to ignore.

Well to be fair, he did say first big "3D" fps

I never really understood the argument of Doom not being 3D, yeah it accomplishes the effect in a bizarre and limited manner, but the end result is a world space which is perceivably three dimensional.
I could probably argue that Quake isn't 3D either and that it's just a bunch of triangles being dynamically warped on screen

Well yeah, doom played in a 3 dimensional way.. but the walls, the ceiling, the floor, the gun models, the enemy models.. All 2D based

Where as Quake used actual 3D rendering of the enemy models, gun models ect.

In the end I'd still describe Doom as being 3D as even the True 3D graphics of Quake are an illusion formed by algorithms. Now it's much more complicated and close to life, but it's still justa bunch of 2D triangles being streched, warped, and overlapped on your screen to produce 3D environment and entities.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Botonoski

Quoting: GuestCan someone explain why these "retro" games look worse than Quake, the actual first big 3D FPS?

This is ridiculous. Making a Quake mod in a Quake source port would immediately look better than this.

Quake being the first actual big FPS? Well, I guess if you ignore Doom... but Doom is pretty hard to ignore.

The same assets in a different engine ain't gonna look any better, you're just gonna be artificially limiting yourself to the source port's quirks, hard-coded mechanics, and a probably rather limiting level editor.
Could a Quake source port even have an unlocked y-axis without modification of the source code? I dunno, but it sounds a lot easier to pull of in Unity either way.

I don't ignore DOOM, i play it all the time, but ignore the 3D part and just pretend DOOM is a true 3D game...sigh.

Then make different assets on a tested engine....Ion Maiden??

...unlocked y Axis in quake? huh?

Making different assets on a tested engine? Ion Maiden is the only commercial game I can think of that uses the Eduke32 engine while I could think of hundreds of games which use Unity, I'd say Unity is far more tested than the engine Ion Maiden uses. Also Unity undoubtedly has better documentation as well and that can make all the difference terms of ease of use for the developer. That's all beside the point though, making different assets in a different engine ain't gonna change the developer's artistic skills, unless the dev chooses to hire a proper artist than no matter what engine he uses it'll all likely look pretty bad.

Yeah, in Dusk while your in midair the camera's y-axis is unlocked allowing the player to do midair flips, It's rather fun and unique.

What ratio would you give to stable Unity games vs Buggy mess? Unity is not known for well programed, compatibility and performance.
Now, how many tens of mods does Eduke32 support? the documentation appears to be good enough for anyone to just mod that game and be much more creative than "Professional" Unity game makers.

Unity having a lot of buggy and amateur games on it is a bi-product of it's ease of use and good documentation, unlike Eduke32 every little problem you may have or feature you want to implement in Unity all can be resolved by a quick google search and a youtube tutorial, that factor attracts a lot of amateur game developers who don't know what they're doing thus resulting in larger amounts of mediocre games, but on the flip side it saves a good developer a lot of time with its rather small learning curve thus resulting in rather amazing products like Cities Skylines and Cuphead.
I just don't think Eduke32 is flexible enough, everything you make in it is just gonna be a glorified Duke Nukem mod and implementing unique game mechanics and graphical effects may be far more effort than its worth. Personally I wouldn't use Eduke32 as I'd have to learn how to use Mapster32, why would I want to learn how to make environments in this software I've never used when I could just utilize my extensive knowledge of Blender and get a better product in less time?

Because if you are making a retro inspired/looking game, using these open engines gives you a far more authentic feeling than the vast majority of retro looking games that are released in modern engines. By using eduke32 Ion Maiden get both a unique look and authenticity. By using ID tech engine source ports, the games get authentic retro look and are still able to have different game mechanics. The Dark Mod was made from an engine used for a shooter for example. The retro look comes from using the era appropriate limitations with some new benefits such as higher resolution. Low resolution Pixel art textures look hideous when filtering is used (Quake is an obvious example where the filtering just washes away details) and when modern photo-realistic lighting is used. It falls into the Uncanny Valley.

If you took all the same assets from Quake and ported them over to Unity they'd still look the same, you can combat a lack of authenticity with a firm understanding of the technical limitations the original had. Plus I'd argue that a lot of source ports offer so much visual enhancements compared to the original that most authenticity via limitations is lost.

Bah, none of this even matters, I don't care if DUSK is piss ugly, it's fun and that's all that matters.

you are focussing to much on the assets. What about the lighting and the engine physics?
VKQuake is pretty much authentic. It even adds the software rendering effects that the GL version didn't do.

I'm ignoring the lighting and physics because Unity doesn't force you to implement those things. You can just do a simple diffuse pass for the lighting and you could easily completely ignore Unity's physics engine and implement a simpler one by following a quick tutorial.