Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night for Linux has been officially cancelled

QuoteI just can't believe my eyes, given they had over eleven times their original funding goal!

Yes. I know that development is hard and I try to be understanding. However, this requires just one response:

Fuck you, Iga.

Quoting: no_information_here

QuoteI just can't believe my eyes, given they had over eleven times their original funding goal!

Yes. I know that development is hard and I try to be understanding. However, this requires just one response:

Fuck you, Iga.

Apparently that's not even the half of it.

According to this /r/linux_gaming/ post, "It took months for the backers who asked after they canned Vita version, and these pricks haven't even gave complete refunds. They gave like 50% of the backed amout, or 70%, but not everything."

Unless it was "50% of the backed amount, plus a key for another platform" (which I seriously doubt), that's just insult to injury.

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: orochi_kyoJust reading comments on kickstarter page, some people could be right... this middleware could be DENUVO and Im pretty sure their next announcement will be delaying the GOG version or even cancelling it.

That would be strange, given that GOG already lists the game. It means they agreed to release it DRM-free there.

Some games became one year exclusive to Epic Games Store while having Steam Store pages.

What middleware could it be if not Denuvo? If they were actually planning to support all platform, they would have chosen cross-platform tools. That means, it's either Denuvo, or they never intended to support Linux, Mac, Vita, etc. I don't know what is worse. Reading updates on Kickstarter, I always suspected Iga has been spending backers' millions on resting on a yacht with hookers and cocaine.

Look at Hollow Knight. A metroidvania too, 100 times less budget, all Kickstarter promises were delivered, and the game is excellent. But that one is definitely a scam. What version gets cancelled next, Windows or Xbox? They don't even refund.


Last edited by ageres on 31 December 2018 at 3:06 am UTC

Quoting: ageresWhat middleware could it be if not Denuvo? If they were actually planning to support all platform, they would have chosen cross-platform tools. That means, it's either Denuvo, or they never intended to support Linux, Mac, Vita, etc. I don't know what is worse. Reading updates on Kickstarter, I always suspected Iga has been spending backers' millions on resting on a yacht with hookers and cocaine.

My operational assumption until I have more info is that they chose a piece of middleware that was promising Mac and Linux support "soon" when they chose it (probably because the dev team already knew how to work with it), and which has meanwhile failed to deliver said support or dropped it because Proton or other reasons.
Denuvo rarely goes into small project games like this because their baseline initial license fee is reportedly quite high ($15 mil USD) and one only very rarely hears of them willingly negotiating it lower (and even then not lower than $10 to $12 mil USD). Unless they've been picked up for publication by a big AAA publisher, Denuvo seems very unlikely.

I'm surprised some are stupid enough to pay anything to those who make Denuvo, let alone such crazy prices. And no respect for developers who make such garbage.


Last edited by Shmerl on 28 December 2018 at 7:34 am UTC

Quoting: vlademir1My operational assumption until I have more info is that they chose a piece of middleware that was promising Mac and Linux support "soon" when they chose it (probably because the dev team already knew how to work with it), and which has meanwhile failed to deliver said support or dropped it because Proton or other reasons.

They didn't explain what kind of middleware had let them down. How convenient is that their middleware supports Switch so they could add it to their list, right? Anyway, with $5.5M they could have spent some resources on another middleware.

Quoting: vlademir1Denuvo rarely goes into small project games like this because their baseline initial license fee is reportedly quite high ($15 mil USD) and one only very rarely hears of them willingly negotiating it lower (and even then not lower than $10 to $12 mil USD). Unless they've been picked up for publication by a big AAA publisher, Denuvo seems very unlikely.

Where did you get these prices? I never heard what does Denuvo cost, but $15M seems too much. Many games won't even get profitable unless sold at few millions copies.

Also, there is 2Dark, another crowdfunded game which promised DRM-free, Mac and Linux versions, but then its developers consorted with a bad publisher, put Denuvo into the game, cancelled Mac and Linux support as well as DRM-free release and started to sell it overpriced. This case was covered here on GoL: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/2dark-released-without-a-linux-version-despite-promising-it-during-crowdfunding.9299
"Naughty, naughty developers." © GoL 2017.

Quoting: ageres

Quoting: vlademir1My operational assumption until I have more info is that they chose a piece of middleware that was promising Mac and Linux support "soon" when they chose it (probably because the dev team already knew how to work with it), and which has meanwhile failed to deliver said support or dropped it because Proton or other reasons.

They didn't explain what kind of middleware had let them down. How convenient is that their middleware supports Switch so they could add it to their list, right? Anyway, with $5.5M they could have spent some resources on another middleware.

sitch is fucking profitable and with its short life time it already surpassed the instal base of linux and its only going to grow in the next few years.

i'm really pissed off that they droped support for an entire platform instead of an feature, they could at least relase an incomplete version for those who paid + an key to the complete game elsewhere where all the features are supported.
if the feature is an small thing like netplay, i woudnt mind lose it, i dont want to play the multiplayer of an metroidvania-ish game anyway.

Quoting: elmapulsitch is fucking profitable and with its short life time it already surpassed the instal base of linux and its only going to grow in the next few years.

If the devs were so slow so WiiU and Vita died during the development and Switch appeared, that doesn't mean they can break their promises. Linux and Mac bases were profitable enough to raise money on Kickstarter, but not enough for making a port?

God damnit. I wanted this game to make it!
However, I didn't back it... because I barely ever back anything.

Maybe I'm jaded by all the broken 'promises' and butthurt by all the pathetic "apologies".

Maybe I need a proven track record before I spend any of my money on eventual Linux releases, especially from developers who don't normally release games for Linux.

Maybe I'd be content with chucking money towards a Linux friendly dev simply because they care about our preferred operating system.

Maybe these crowdfunding shenanigans are simply 90% hustlers who profit on our innate proclivity to wish for things, and the remaining 10% actually get products to market.


I'll just leave this little snippet from one of my all-time favorite fantasy series The Sword Of Truth by Terry Goodkind. It's worth thinking about. BTW, the TV show was pure excrement, do NOT watch it. Read the magnificently brutal books!

This is the Wizard's First Rule:

Quote“People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.” -- Zedd

Quoting: GuestI emailed them asking for a refund...let's see if something comes about it.

I sent a message for kickstarter about a refund. Will see what their reply will be. If nothing happens will do a chargeback through credit card company.

I haven't been this angry in a long long time. This was to be my last backed kickstarter game ever, and even this was a major disappointment.

Quoting: ShmerlI'm surprised some are stupid enough to pay anything to those who make Denuvo, let alone such crazy prices. And no respect for developers who make such garbage.

I'm pretty keen to pick up both Nier:Automata and Prey, but wouldn't prod either of them with a shitty stick until they ditch Denuvo. I'm not supporting that. Ever.

Edit to add: annoyingly I got the new Metal Gear Solid game via Humble Bundle last month, but won't install it for the same reason, despite a platinum rating in ProtonDB.


Last edited by scaine on 28 December 2018 at 11:32 am UTC

Quoting: ssokolowAccording to this /r/linux_gaming/ post, "It took months for the backers who asked after they canned Vita version, and these pricks haven't even gave complete refunds. They gave like 50% of the backed amout, or 70%, but not everything."

Unless it was "50% of the backed amount, plus a key for another platform" (which I seriously doubt), that's just insult to injury.

That really sucks. I remember when I backed Kingdom Come: Deliverance and they announced they can not deliver the Linux version. (A good game btw. My wife plays it using Proton). Warhorse were very helpful, apologetic and friendly about the refund. They refunded me 100% of the backed amount even though I expected them to not refund the Paypal/Kickstarter fees. This is the way such situations should be handled.

I wonder if Valve success with SteamPlay/Proton made it not worth the effort to develop a Linux release.

Quoting: marcusThat really sucks. I remember when I backed Kingdom Come: Deliverance and they announced they can not deliver the Linux version. (A good game btw. My wife plays it using Proton). Warhorse were very helpful, apologetic and friendly about the refund.

What stops them from making a Wine based official Linux release now?

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: marcusThat really sucks. I remember when I backed Kingdom Come: Deliverance and they announced they can not deliver the Linux version. (A good game btw. My wife plays it using Proton). Warhorse were very helpful, apologetic and friendly about the refund.

What stops them from making a Wine based official Linux release now?

Probably nothing. In the end it may not be worth it for them with it working quite well in Proton. Maybe they could officially "Endorse" the proton version, but I'm not sure how that would work. I think Valve sooner or later will add an indication in the store on whether a game runs with Proton and they could highlight/modify this indication if the dev supports the Proton version instead of Valve (i.e. by testing that updates don't break with Proton on SteamOS).

I only don't buy it again because I only buy games that are officially supported by the dev on Linux - so such an indication would definitely be beneficial for me :)

Quoting: marcusProbably nothing. In the end it may not be worth it for them with it working quite well in Proton.

It may be working well in Wine / Proton without their involvement, but it's a reputation issue. They promised Linux release and blew it. It wasn't exactly their fault, since Cry Engine version they used had low quality Linux support, but now they have a relatively easy way to actually keep their promise, utilizing the very fact that it's working well in Wine.


Last edited by Shmerl on 28 December 2018 at 7:15 pm UTC

Asked for full refund. Here's how they replied:

QuoteHey there xxxx,

Unfortunately ArtPlay and 505 Games are not offering refunds, so we are only able to change your platform. You can provide further feedback to the team directly by posting on the Official Bloodstained Forum or the Bloodstained Discord server. We’re sorry for the trouble; please let us know if you have any other questions.

Bunch of scammers.

Edit:

QuoteNot offering refunds? Well, they sure are not offering me what I was promised and what I payed for. I don't want to give feedback to team via forums or discord, I want either what was promised, or my money back.

QuoteHey xxxx,

If you have further inquiries the best course of action is to talk to Artplay and 505 Games directly through their forums or Discord server. We unfortunately cannot provide the any further assistance from here unless you need us to change the choice of platform.

They clearly have no intention to refund people their money. Smart move to outsource customer "service" to some random company, and make them forward people to forums or other mediums where they can be silently ignored or moderated. This whole thing is starting to look shady af if you think about it. There's like three or four companies all supposedly doing something with the project, yet in three(?) years they've managed to come up with disappointing and unimpressive tech demo (they call it beta) with the millions they got. Nothing else. Sure there was curse of the moon but it was done by Inti (who are more or less known to deliver). I thought it was nice that WayForward joined the crew to fix bugs and polish things up, but maybe they are actually there to deliver something playable (fixing the whole mess?) so that people would not come after everyone with torches and pitchforks.

I've had enough of this crowd funding bs.


Last edited by skry on 29 December 2018 at 7:09 am UTC

Quoting: skryAsked for full refund. Here's how they replied:

QuoteHey there xxxx,

Unfortunately ArtPlay and 505 Games are not offering refunds, so we are only able to change your platform. You can provide further feedback to the team directly by posting on the Official Bloodstained Forum or the Bloodstained Discord server. We’re sorry for the trouble; please let us know if you have any other questions.

Bunch of scammers.

Edit:

QuoteNot offering refunds? Well, they sure are not offering me what I was promised and what I payed for. I don't want to give feedback to team via forums or discord, I want either what was promised, or my money back.

QuoteHey xxxx,

If you have further inquiries the best course of action is to talk to Artplay and 505 Games directly through their forums or Discord server. We unfortunately cannot provide the any further assistance from here unless you need us to change the choice of platform.

They clearly have no intention to refund people their money. Smart move to outsource customer "service" to some random company, and make them forward people to forums or other mediums where they can be silently ignored or moderated. This whole thing is starting to look shady af if you think about it. There's like three or four companies all supposedly doing something with the project, yet in three(?) years they've managed to come up with disappointing and unimpressive tech demo (they call it beta) with the millions they got. Nothing else. Sure there was curse of the moon but it was done by Inti (who are more or less known to deliver). I thought it was nice that WayForward joined the crew to fix bugs and polish things up, but maybe they are actually there to deliver something playable (fixing the whole mess?) so that people would not come after everyone with torches and pitchforks.

I've had enough of this crowd funding bs.

At the moment it's down due to the government shutdown, but if you live in the US I encourage you to file a complaint at the ftc:

https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-consumer-protection

There's probably similar agencies in other countries.


Last edited by emphy on 29 December 2018 at 9:31 am UTC

It's a minor thing, but one action you can take is to "Ignore" 505 Games as a creator on Steam. Provided Valve actually honour the setting, it should prevent any games published by "505 Games" from appearing in your store, either in queues, or recommendations.

No idea if they have visibility of this, but I'm certainly never dropping money on scammers where I can help it, so I've given it a shot.

https://store.steampowered.com/publisher/505Games/lists/

Click on the gear icon on the top right and choose "Ignore Creator".

Sadly, the developer "Artplay" haven't created a content page, so I'm not sure if there's a way to ignore them. If find one, I'll post again.

Quoting: scaineIt's a minor thing, but one action you can take is to "Ignore" 505 Games as a creator on Steam. Provided Valve actually honour the setting, it should prevent any games published by "505 Games" from appearing in your store, either in queues, or recommendations.

No idea if they have visibility of this, but I'm certainly never dropping money on scammers where I can help it, so I've given it a shot.

https://store.steampowered.com/publisher/505Games/lists/

Click on the gear icon on the top right and choose "Ignore Creator".

Sadly, the developer "Artplay" haven't created a content page, so I'm not sure if there's a way to ignore them. If find one, I'll post again.

Good to know. I don't use Steam as anything beyond a backup proof-of-purchase for my Humble Bundle buys and a way to bridge them into GOG Connect, but I did that in case they get stats out of it and it also got me thinking about a site I do use. Given the amount of metadata and filtering offered by IsThereAnyDeal.com, and the existing support for hiding undesired stores, it seems like something ITAD might offer, so I've suggested adding it.

Also, that "Report this Creator" option got me thinking in another direction. It doesn't apply to this kind of issue, but I wonder if there's another way to report them to Valve which might be useful for turning up the pressure on them.

(On that note, since I refuse to give Steam any money, I still have a limited account. If anyone else wants to, nobody has yet pointed this thread at the Kickstarter URL that says this sort of thing is a ToS violation.)


Last edited by ssokolow on 29 December 2018 at 3:36 pm UTC