The Steam Winter Sale is now live, prepare your wallet

I have an unpopular opinion I know, but what would you expect if I actually liked PoE better than BG?

You might not like the standard Sword and Sorcery setting that resembles classic BG a lot more than PoE's High Middle Ages/Early Renaissance fare, and the world is far less bleak and dreary than PoE. That said, the NPC's are more developed than BG, which is more PoE style, and it has a lot of modern Quality of Life improvements. It doesn't do the BG1, PoE thing where you have to cross map after map to reach new locations and has a travel system that's more like Arcanum or Storm of Zehir, but with a neat camping system that rewards having a party with a diverse skillset.

Or you can just watch an LP (but don't read the comments), the entire first act (up to the defeat of the Stag Lord) has no real spoilers and shows a lot of the core gameplay loop but without any of the real awesome moments that you might not want spoiled.

Thanks. I'm not familiar with those other games but I'll definitely watch some gameplay later on, once the fixes have been in long enough to get an up-to-date feel for the game.

All I'll say is that the idea that only certain man-made things qualify as Art is a very recent one in the scale of human history.

Is Linux art?

I said not to get me started. :) But yes, of course.

Art is by nature subjective and yes that includes porn. That doesn't mean all porn is a masterpiece nor that you must agree with someone else's interpretation.

Precisely. As I say, to my mind anything fashioned by humans is art. The question isn't whether it's art or not; it's whether it's skillful art or hamfisted art, powerful art or bland art, art which enlightens or art which degrades... there are many distinctions which could be made between “good” art and “bad” art; it depends on what form that art takes. And, as you say, even those interpretations are, to a great degree (although I wouldn't say entirely), subjective.

(Crikey, this is all getting a bit highbrow for Christmas, isn't it? :) )


Last edited by Dunc on 21 December 2018 at 11:33 pm UTC

(Crikey, this is all getting a bit highbrow for Christmas, isn't it? :) )

You've clearly not seen my neighbours decorations.

Bah, humbug! :)

nwn:ee has crazy good price for those who still don't have it.

That moment when you go to check the sales page, and you already own most of the titles listed. #FeelsBadMan lol.

No. You got it all wrong, as did the previous posters.

Art is NOT about entertainment. Art is about expression, and the transfer of ideas and feelings.

Art is for entertainment too. Comics are Art, and they're made for entertainment. Films are Art, and they are for entertainment. In can clearly find many examples of sculptures and paintings that were made to entertain people and nobody will say they aren't Art.

Thus, not every film is art... For example porn is not "art". Porn is just there so you can get an easy and fast release of sexual pleasure. There is no artistic expression, no feelings or thoughts transfered. Just raw porn.

A great philosophical theatrical play is Art. A clown making balloons on the street for little kids, not art. One is there to transfer thoughts and feelings, the other is there just to waste some time and entertain the brats while their parents can drink their coffee with their friends in peace. LOL.

I believe that you put a very strict personal classification in order to decide what is art and what is not. Anyway, even with you personal way of view it would be very easy to find a game that has a similar quality of camera, script and characters development as any other film that you would consider a masterpiece. Games are a mixed art, just as a film, opera or a play are.

No. You got it all wrong, as did the previous posters.

Art is NOT about entertainment. Art is about expression, and the transfer of ideas and feelings.

Art is for entertainment too. Comics are Art, and they're made for entertainment. Films are Art, and they are for entertainment. In can clearly find many examples of sculptures and paintings that were made to entertain people and nobody will say they aren't Art.

Thus, not every film is art... For example porn is not "art". Porn is just there so you can get an easy and fast release of sexual pleasure. There is no artistic expression, no feelings or thoughts transfered. Just raw porn.

A great philosophical theatrical play is Art. A clown making balloons on the street for little kids, not art. One is there to transfer thoughts and feelings, the other is there just to waste some time and entertain the brats while their parents can drink their coffee with their friends in peace. LOL.

I believe that you put a very strict personal classification in order to decide what is art and what is not. Anyway, even with you personal way of view it would be very easy to find a game that has a similar quality of camera, script and characters development as any other film that you would consider a masterpiece. Games are a mixed art, just as a film, opera or a play are.

It's interesting that as this conversation plays out, I decided to pick up Crossing to the Cold Valley in the winter sale on itch.io on the strength of having quite enjoyed the same dev's Kingdom Ka (which I wrote an article about.

I think there's no question that it's art, even in the fairly restrictive definition given. It transmits feelings and thoughts, it demonstrates artistic expression, and causes the player to think about not only the events of the story but the narrative itself.

It's also a game. I know some folks like to narrow the definition of game unduly in order to act as gatekeepers, defining the things they don't like or approve of as "not games", but I think if you decleare this not a game then you define adventure games out of existence (and visual novels too, in a sense). So if you're not so foolish as to do that, then Crossing to the Cold Valley is indeed an excellent example of game-as-art. And it's hardly alone.

I'm finally getting Helium Rain. I haven't played a space trading type game since Freelancers! I had hoped they would bring Elite Dangerous to Linux at some point, but it never happened...

Consider buying X4: Foundations when the Linux port is finished. Seems to be an amazing game.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting. Bernd says maybe sometime in the first half of 2019 we'll get a beta. Maybe; X-Rebirth was closer to 2 years for a Linux release.

There probably are not enough Linux sales for it to be important to Egosoft, and it doesn't work with Proton or Wine either, so it's a non-starter at the moment.

and it doesn't work with Proton or Wine either, so it's a non-starter at the moment.

Which is interesting, as the early word on Proton was that anything utilizing Vulkan should work with it, and X4 does. Now, I realize it's not quite that simple, but it's disappointing that a 100% Vulkan utilizing game doesn't work with Proton out of the box...

and it doesn't work with Proton or Wine either, so it's a non-starter at the moment.

Which is interesting, as the early word on Proton was that anything utilizing Vulkan should work with it, and X4 does. Now, I realize it's not quite that simple, but it's disappointing that a 100% Vulkan utilizing game doesn't work with Proton out of the box...

Well, Proton/Wine are aimed at transparently running games/software that are coded solely for Windows APIs. I am guessing that Egosoft now have a less Windows-oriented codebase, to make X-platform easier, and this might push it out of the normal envelope that Proton/Wine reliably implement.

There are still large numbers of Windows APIs in Proton/Wine that are empty stubs, and "hosting" windows code on other operating systems will always throw up occasional edge-cases that you don't know about until you encounter an error.

From the reports I have seen, the problems with running under Proton are related to resource location and unpacking, so X4 doesn't get far enough before crashing to assess if Vulkan under Proton works.

I don't think it will take them very long to get their Linux version running once they get to it, but that will not be until the Windows version is largely bug-free at the engine/hardware level. Bernd ( the founder/CEO ) specifically said that the engine coders that would work on the non-windows versions have been given windows bugs as a higher priority.

Bernd ( the founder/CEO ) specifically said that the engine coders that would work on the non-windows versions have been given windows bugs as a higher priority.

Then, from what I'm reading on bugs right now, it might be a while until we see the Linux native version :(. Proton might be our best hope to sample it before then...

I have just (today) grabbed The Bug Butcher on Steam at historical lowest price: 80% discount (£1.11).

Very impressed so far. Great animations, novel enemies, fast and decent game play - and all for an awesome price.

I went for Unforeseen Incidents, Ultimate Chicken Horse and the White March expansions for Pillars of Eternity. I almost got Tyranny, but looking at Steam discussions it looks like Paradox and Obsidian are completely ignoring game-breaking bugs and with Microsoft taking over I don't need more reasons to stay away.

Increased my backlog of games to play with:

• Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun


• XCOM 2 Collection


• Rise of the Tomb Raider


• Deus Ex: Mankind Divided

Just today I purchased these Linux and Proton games for my NEW curated PROTONIC Steam account.

Murdered: Soul Suspect
Wolfenstein: The Two Pack (Wolfenstein: The New Order + Wolfenstein: The Old Blood
Tomb Raider GOTY Edition
Rise of the Tomb Raider™ 20 Years celebration.
Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided - Digital Deluxe edition