Valve have some serious competition, with the Epic Games Store being announced

It's nowhere near a real issue yet for Valve.
But with more successful competition on the store side it can get some very quick.

If Steam really goes down the drain there is at least the hope that Valve gets back developing fantastic games again. So many good Valve games have not being developed just because Steam was/is such a damn cash cow.

So Epic might allow us to give them our money? <3

I hope they bring Fortnite for Linux. Especially kids like that. Canadian children, too.

Overall my feelings are meh, and until Epic shows they have an interest in Linux gaming by porting titles like Fortnite over then from my perspective they are just another CDProjekt Red minus the DMR free titles. The one concern I do have is if Epic manages to make an impact it could hurt Linux gaming as Valve might decide it better to drop or lower Linux support in order to be competitive.

I think people need to look outside the bubble for a moment. Look at what happened with Steam, we didn't think it was really coming and it eventually did. At that time, Valve also had nothing on Linux.

Why are people instantly counting Epic out, when the situation is the same? Like I said in the article, there's no other "open" platform left - it's got to be Linux.

Not read all the post so forgive if already been pointed out.

I give some reasons why some are counting them out(Me included)

I remember this game called UnrealTounament 3 that we were apparently getting on our platform! Am still waiting despite Ryan had finished the port, yes I was one of those fools that had bought it too.

There Unrealengine which is now usable on linux mostly down to the community still has no launcher/store UI

Then there's what appears to be their most successfully game to date, Forteninght! and guess what, no linux client.

So liam you can understand why most are writing them off.

But lets be real here, it's well known that Epic is near as damnit a MS studio and has for a number of years.

Hope am wrong and they do support linux but I'll not hold my breath!

The *only* ambiguous point in Epic's announcement is the "other open platform" point. Add to this, Sweeney's last tweet and it becomes obvious that Epic is plain and simple messing with Linux users. As much as I had a some hope in 2014, not showing *any* kind of support for more than 4 and a half years has destroyed the little trust I had put in them after they had previously cancelled a nearly finished UT3 port from Icculus.
I can see absolutely zero reason to be so shady on the subject unless they're trying to hide that they don't care for a platform. I believe that there may have been some interest in Linux in the beginning of the development but that has vanished the moment Tim Sweeney stopped freaking out about the Windows store.

It is most likely that the Linux build of UE4 was targeting professional applications such as machine learning (like the one shown in yesterday's demo by Nvidia). They never had plans to release a single game on Linux and probably will never do. Let's not forget that their flagship game, Fortnite, is available on 7 different platform, 5 of which are Unix based. At this point, not shipping the game to Linux is very intentional.

I would like so much to be proven wrong. I would like so much for Epic to show support like they did when they released UT99 with a Linux version. If this is some sort of marketing move, it is the dumbest one I've seen but I don't think it is one. They didn't announce Linux support simply because they don't want to support Linux at all.

I do consider the Unreal Engine to be one of the most advanced pieces of tech ever created but their current stance regarding our platform is dishonest and disgusting.

Yeah, no way.

If it isn't on Steam or GOG I'm not interested. I started pirating games on C64 - started buying games because Steam is such a great platform for me. I'll never lose or damage the discs, don't have to keep track of boxes or manuals. I have over a thousand games in my Steam library, but if publishers want to keep making their own stores I have no problem pirating again. Already looks like I won't be able to get Elder Scrolls 6 via Steam so guess what? I have a VPN, I'm not gonna buy it. Steam provides a service I find valuable, GOG has inspired my love for their resurrection of old games, and for being DRM free. What do these other publishers have to offer but scattering my library of games across more platforms, more passwords and logins, less consolidation, more bugs. NO! I won't buy it, I'll just pirate.


Last edited by wit_as_a_riddle on 4 Dec 2018 at 10:16 pm UTC

[quote=Pikolo]

I was under the impression that MacOS isn't supported in SteamPlay. Has that changed, or was Mac support something they intended to work on after DXVK worked well on Linux?

Nothing has changed so far, in fact they have been removing Mac references from the Proton documentation that were once there.

I also don't see the point.
- Apple deprecated OpenGL, which to this date is the only API for which working D3D7-9 implementations exist, and their implementation is too old to support D3D11.
- Apple does not support Vulkan, none of the VK->Metal translation layers are able to run DXVK yet, and even if they did, performance would probably be terrible in most cases.
- Apple dropped support for 32-bit toolchains, and seem to be making it harder to run 32-bit stuff in general. Really bad news for Windows games because pretty much everything released before 2015 is 32-bit only, and even some modern games are 32-bit.

SteamPlay originally just referred to Steam's "Buy on one OS, own on all" feature. That covers Mac, in fact it was launched with the Mac version.


Last edited by Kristian on 4 Dec 2018 at 10:40 pm UTC

Count me at the other living creature in the galaxy who did not know what fortnite is.

i do not know Epic's boss well but i have read people calling windows an "open" platform compared to -for example- iOS or any walled garden. So, no i am not sure at all he means Linux.

Besides some of the tweeted quotes seem to indicate he is clueless about Linux. Not hostile, but clueless.

Their announcement distinguishes between "PC, Mac and Android" on the one hand hand and "other open platforms" on the other hand. So it is almost certainly not referring to Windows, since that is likely covered by the "PC" bit of the first part.

[According to Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/12/epic-undercuts-steam-with-new-store-that-gives-devs-more-money):

Sweeney told Ars that the company plans to "start small" and will "sometimes fund developers to release games exclusively through the store"

Heh, that's not a promising start.

I like that tweet

https://twitter.com/retroremakes/status/1070080659887144961

For me its just another store without linux support. This means less games on steam and less linux games for us. And all this nice proton stuff is useless if games are published on other stores.

Yeah, no way.

If it isn't on Steam or GOG I'm not interested. I started pirating games on C64 - started buying games because Steam is such a great platform for me. I'll never lose or damage the discs, don't have to keep track of boxes or manuals. I have over a thousand games in my Steam library, but if publishers want to keep making their own stores I have no problem pirating again. Already looks like I won't be able to get Elder Scrolls 6 via Steam so guess what? I have a VPN, I'm not gonna buy it. Steam provides a service I find valuable, GOG has inspired my love for their resurrection of old games, and for being DRM free. What do these other publishers have to offer but scattering my library of games across more platforms, more passwords and logins, less consolidation, more bugs. NO! I won't buy it, I'll just pirate.

So you're entitled to Elder Scrolls 6 for free cause it's not on Steam?

Now, for the second part: in fact, GOG does have regional pricing which most of the time is the same as on Steam™.

No, most of the time it's not. Mostly because Steam sets prices in local currency, while GOG keeps everything in USD.

Well, now, this is simply a lie.
GOG neither keeps everything in USD (value-wise) nor enforces USD as a currency.

Sorry, it's not. Do the same test for any country of latin america... For third world countries, the Steam store is hundred of miles away from GoG.

https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/212184449-What-payment-methods-and-currencies-do-you-accept-and-where-

I like that tweet

https://twitter.com/retroremakes/status/1070080659887144961

Um, most of that kind of went right over my head. What's so great and different about Epic's store other than the lower cut?

That explains the recent Valve royalty cut...

Valve is very greedy and lazy. And sadly they don't show signs of improving. They will only really try to change their ways when it is too late, as is always the case...

you say that after all they did for linux (client, steamOS, wine/proton, dxvk, mesa) for free

Well, they're doing it because it benefits them. Yes, it's of benefit to the general GNU/Linux community too, but I wouldn't quite say "free" (Valve would expect something to come of it, or they wouldn't invest). Subtle difference, but important: and no flame wars, this is a good showcase of how a company can invest in open source software for their own benefit, without trampling on user rights.

Anyway, Valve have done plenty of shady things as well. Let's not forget the paid mod fiasco. They've steadily reduced their own effort in managing their own marketplace (trying to make it community run basically means they don't have to do anything except gather the cash). That point is going to stir a few emotions I'm sure, but it's good business sense really: get others to do the work for you. I wouldn't put it quite to the extreme of greedy and lazy, but neither are Valve going to put in more effort than they have to.

Oh, and Valve do try improve because they know that if they don't, the success with Steam that they've had won't last. They've been working to give themselves a direction, a way out of stagnation. I think there's even a video of Newell saying that somewhere.

Please please please people don't read this as attacking (quite often people do). I'm not. Valve aren't golden heroes, but neither are they murky villains. They're just doing good business, and obviously GNU/Linux is, or Valve believes has the potential for, good (desktop) business.

i dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

I like that tweet

https://twitter.com/retroremakes/status/1070080659887144961

I don't understand what he's trying to get at. He just seems to be vaguely asserting that things are bad and need to change over and over again. What exactly does he think Valve is doing wrong? What is this "power difference" and "antagonism" he's referring to? What does he think Epic is going to do better?

I was under the impression that MacOS isn't supported in SteamPlay. Has that changed, or was Mac support something they intended to work on after DXVK worked well on Linux?

Nothing has changed so far, in fact they have been removing Mac references from the Proton documentation that were once there.

I also don't see the point.
- Apple deprecated OpenGL, which to this date is the only API for which working D3D7-9 implementations exist, and their implementation is too old to support D3D11.
- Apple does not support Vulkan, none of the VK->Metal translation layers are able to run DXVK yet, and even if they did, performance would probably be terrible in most cases.
- Apple dropped support for 32-bit toolchains, and seem to be making it harder to run 32-bit stuff in general. Really bad news for Windows games because pretty much everything released before 2015 is 32-bit only, and even some modern games are 32-bit.

Apple are really trying hard to be useless for gaming, huh?


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 5 Dec 2018 at 12:30 am UTC

i dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

(previous quotes snipped to keep text smaller)
So I was trying to be particular: it's not always about direct sales income. Valve started on GNU/Linux because Microsoft was forcing their hand - they used to it to more or less show that they're not reliant on Microsoft. Valve have also slowly been building up an infrastructure that allows them to move away entirely and run on their own (with a bit of extra funds if they need it immediately). They can play a long game, and "Proton" is pretty clear about their intentions: run the games, but don't rely on Windows.

This is, as I say, just good business. No, not big bucks (right now) with GNU/Linux, but it is a safeguard. That alone has probably stopped Microsoft pulling a few shenanigans of their own, and actually ended up ensuring that Valve haven't been screwed over.

And yeah, absolutely it's a big effort overall, but more importantly there's been some fairly practical investments: drivers, Vulkan, developer days, etc. Ok, perhaps Steam Machines wasn't a wise investment, but not everything can be (I'm sure they learned a lot, and I'm also sure they could afford the mistake).

I guess I have a different approach to many others. I don't see them as champions, I see them as good business people who don't like being under Microsoft's thumb. It also changes certain expectations: a champion I would expect to open source their game management client (aka Steam), but good business people I wouldn't.
....but, I will say they're working with the GNU/Linux community, and they're reaping rewards from it, so we should all point to Valve as an example of how a company should behave.

but isnt MS thumb also a problem for origin, uplay, gog, etc?
lets say MS cuts everybody out tomorrow. origin, uplay, steam, gog, etc
do you think PC gamers would switch to linux, or are they all buying a console?

For me its just another store without linux support. This means less games on steam and less linux games for us. And all this nice proton stuff is useless if games are published on other stores.

why would developers make it epic exclusive? you can buy ubisoft titles on steam and uplay. you can buy witcher on gog and steam and play it with proton
even if vavle does everything wrong in the future, it will take some years to "destroy" steam
and proton is still open source. maybe gog builds a wrapper thing with it for their games. (now that im thinking about. maybe some piracy sites already work on that, lol)
i wouldnt fear about that now

I guess I have a different approach to many others. I don't see them as champions, I see them as good business people who don't like being under Microsoft's thumb. It also changes certain expectations: a champion I would expect to open source their game management client (aka Steam), but good business people I wouldn't.
....but, I will say they're working with the GNU/Linux community, and they're reaping rewards from it, so we should all point to Valve as an example of how a company should behave.

but isnt MS thumb also a problem for origin, uplay, gog, etc?

Ultimately it is. Maybe they're just not as long-term-thinking businesspeople as Valve. But the other thing is that Valve is by far the market leader in the space; Valve has the luxury of worrying about Microsoft. The others would like to be able to worry about Microsoft, but they're busy needing to worry about Valve, and each other.