VK9, the project that aims to support Direct3D 9 over Vulkan has hit another milestone

Quoting: KristianBut if running a game under Wine reduces the FPS say from 150 to 100 or from 200 to 150 the general public will tend to perceive that as an utter failure and totally unacceptable. It will dissuade them from switching and the Linux marketshare will stay low.

Perception is everything.

I highly doubt you'll be able to notice framerate drop from 200 to 150 fps. As you said, perception is everything. So if Wine has some performance hit, but it's above noticeable - who cares.


Last edited by Shmerl on 17 December 2018 at 4:05 am UTC

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensAre there any heavy weight DX9 games?

The Witcher 2 is quite heavy (Windows version is using DX9), but it has an OpenGL wrapped port by Virtual Programming already.

this game runs pretty well on 5yr old cards. if you have an older card, you wont have vulkan

heavy weight DX9 games are nothing for todays cards. even cheap ones like rx570 can handle them easily

Quoting: massatt212he needs to get games running to catch valve eyes, or he can be a scammer or he could just decide to abandon the project, valve needs to see hug progress before supporting him, and their are tones of games that still use DX9

i dont think this means that more games will work, but you could have more FPS.
if they can translate DX9 to VULKAN, they can translate DX9 to OpenGL and thats what proton already does
how many games would profit from VK9? skyrim
are there any other dx9 only games with bad performance?

edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPys83pfjQ
he has 60FPS on ultra with a 1060. VR9 woudlnt help him at all

Their are some games with Graphical Glitches
Like Strider and Darksiders 2 Public Beta

Quoting: KristianI have often seen Linux ports or games running under Wine reduce performance by double digit FPS and/or % and people hailing that as acceptable since performance is still good and they may have an otherwise great point.

But if running a game under Wine reduces the FPS say from 150 to 100 or from 200 to 150 the general public will tend to perceive that as an utter failure and totally unacceptable. It will dissuade them from switching and the Linux marketshare will stay low.

Perception is everything. So it is crucial to get Linux performance as near to Windows performance as possible,if it can be faster even better.

Edit:

If I remember the numbers correctly, The Witcher 2 ports performance was bad enough that it is a way way bigger performance loss than what the general public would accept.

Also another attitude I have sometimes seen is "Oh it is fine that game is not DX11 exclusive, its DX9 mode works fine under Wine" neither the general public nor hardcore gamers share that attitude. They think: "Why should I switch to Linux if that means giving up eyecandy or features?".

Which is why projects such as DXVK are so important.

Afaik, the human eyes cannot percept any change above 30 fps.

Quoting: Jiskin

Quoting: KristianI have often seen Linux ports or games running under Wine reduce performance by double digit FPS and/or % and people hailing that as acceptable since performance is still good and they may have an otherwise great point.

But if running a game under Wine reduces the FPS say from 150 to 100 or from 200 to 150 the general public will tend to perceive that as an utter failure and totally unacceptable. It will dissuade them from switching and the Linux marketshare will stay low.

Perception is everything. So it is crucial to get Linux performance as near to Windows performance as possible,if it can be faster even better.

Edit:

If I remember the numbers correctly, The Witcher 2 ports performance was bad enough that it is a way way bigger performance loss than what the general public would accept.

Also another attitude I have sometimes seen is "Oh it is fine that game is not DX11 exclusive, its DX9 mode works fine under Wine" neither the general public nor hardcore gamers share that attitude. They think: "Why should I switch to Linux if that means giving up eyecandy or features?".

Which is why projects such as DXVK are so important.

Afaik, the human eyes cannot percept any change above 30 fps.

It's highly subjective. In general, humans perceive anything over 25/30 FPS as "continuous" and anything over 60 FPS as "smooth" but most can distinguish between 30 and 60 FPS and quite a few can recognise changes between 60 and 120 FPS. Above that, things get extremely subjective and most people can't see any difference.

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KristianBut if running a game under Wine reduces the FPS say from 150 to 100 or from 200 to 150 the general public will tend to perceive that as an utter failure and totally unacceptable. It will dissuade them from switching and the Linux marketshare will stay low.

Perception is everything.

I highly doubt you'll be able to notice framerate drop from 200 to 150 fps. As you said, perception is everything. So if Wine has some performance hit, but it's above noticeable - who cares.

I think you underestimate how much people care about frame rates. People aren't perfect rational beings. Everything else being equal, if one platform gives you 30-40% better performance than another platform, even if the end result feels very much identical, most people will probably choose the better performing one.

Hell, significantly better performance also (probably) means more efficient use of the hardware, meaning less power usage per rendered frame. That's very important to some people, especially laptop users.

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KristianBut if running a game under Wine reduces the FPS say from 150 to 100 or from 200 to 150 the general public will tend to perceive that as an utter failure and totally unacceptable. It will dissuade them from switching and the Linux marketshare will stay low.

Perception is everything.

I highly doubt you'll be able to notice framerate drop from 200 to 150 fps. As you said, perception is everything. So if Wine has some performance hit, but it's above noticeable - who cares.

My point was about various articles, reviews etc being published. When people read about those kind of numbers they react negatively.

Quoting: KristianMy point was about various articles, reviews etc being published. When people read about those kind of numbers they react negatively.

People always react negatively. Like me, right now. :-).

Quoting: massatt212

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensAre there any heavy weight DX9 games?

The Witcher 2 is quite heavy (Windows version is using DX9), but it has an OpenGL wrapped port by Virtual Programming already.

this game runs pretty well on 5yr old cards. if you have an older card, you wont have vulkan

heavy weight DX9 games are nothing for todays cards. even cheap ones like rx570 can handle them easily

Quoting: massatt212he needs to get games running to catch valve eyes, or he can be a scammer or he could just decide to abandon the project, valve needs to see hug progress before supporting him, and their are tones of games that still use DX9

i dont think this means that more games will work, but you could have more FPS.
if they can translate DX9 to VULKAN, they can translate DX9 to OpenGL and thats what proton already does
how many games would profit from VK9? skyrim
are there any other dx9 only games with bad performance?

edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPys83pfjQ
he has 60FPS on ultra with a 1060. VR9 woudlnt help him at all

Their are some games with Graphical Glitches
Like Strider and Darksiders 2 Public Beta

https://store.steampowered.com/app/235210/STRIDER/
minimum: DirectX: Version 11

Quoting: Cybolic

Quoting: Jiskin

Quoting: KristianI have often seen Linux ports or games running under Wine reduce performance by double digit FPS and/or % and people hailing that as acceptable since performance is still good and they may have an otherwise great point.

But if running a game under Wine reduces the FPS say from 150 to 100 or from 200 to 150 the general public will tend to perceive that as an utter failure and totally unacceptable. It will dissuade them from switching and the Linux marketshare will stay low.

Perception is everything. So it is crucial to get Linux performance as near to Windows performance as possible,if it can be faster even better.

Edit:

If I remember the numbers correctly, The Witcher 2 ports performance was bad enough that it is a way way bigger performance loss than what the general public would accept.

Also another attitude I have sometimes seen is "Oh it is fine that game is not DX11 exclusive, its DX9 mode works fine under Wine" neither the general public nor hardcore gamers share that attitude. They think: "Why should I switch to Linux if that means giving up eyecandy or features?".

Which is why projects such as DXVK are so important.

Afaik, the human eyes cannot percept any change above 30 fps.

It's highly subjective. In general, humans perceive anything over 25/30 FPS as "continuous" and anything over 60 FPS as "smooth" but most can distinguish between 30 and 60 FPS and quite a few can recognise changes between 60 and 120 FPS. Above that, things get extremely subjective and most people can't see any difference.

Thanks for the clarification!

Even if it's not that useful yet, I see this as future-proofing. OpenGL is gradually becoming obsolete. Eventually, driver and other sorts of support will become spotty and we're not going to want to be relying on translating stuff into OpenGL at that time. Better to have this already mature by then, than starting from scratch when the problem starts looking serious.