Steam Play recently hit 500 Windows games rated as Platinum on ProtonDB

Quoting: axredneck

Quoting: x_wing... native ports ... Feral ...

Are Feral ports really much more native than playing using Proton?

Of course they are, you won't find any windows dll or PEM executable on a Feral port AFAIK.

Don't know why people puts a library wrapper at the same level as a OS wrapper (or middleware). In the former you can work on micro-optimizations and even refactor a full part of the code if you fell it's necessary, while in the latter you just can hope to get "the best" perform implementation of your API for your current platform.

Also, if you'll keep getting so "technical" in what is and what is not, you can get into the conclusion that even a game that works on a multiplatform engine is not a native.


Last edited by x_wing on 11 January 2019 at 5:15 pm UTC

Quoting: mrdeathjrIn this proton version


Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing

....

^_^

Would you mind putting all your screenshots in a spoiler tag? Scrolling is somewhat exhausting with that much content.

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: axredneck

Quoting: x_wing... native ports ... Feral ...

Are Feral ports really much more native than playing using Proton?

Of course they are, you won't find any windows dll or PEM executable on a Feral port AFAIK.

Don't know why people puts a library wrapper at the same level as a OS wrapper (or middleware). In the former you can work on micro-optimizations and even refactor a full part of the code if you fell it's necessary, while in the latter you just can hope to get "the best" perform implementation of your API for your current platform.

Also, if you'll keep getting so "technical" in what is and what is not, you can get into the conclusion that even a game that works on a multiplatform engine is not a native.

In my opinion the discussion about native vs non-native is somewhat artificial. The important bits are stability, performance and support.

Now it happens that Feral games seem to score really really well on three points. That is partially indeed because having less translation layers may score better in terms of performance, but mostly because they simply know how to do their job. There are a lots of examples where a different approach with a general translation layer like dxvk (where the author also very well knows how to do his job) can yield better results than something that is non-optimally coded "natively" on Linux. So as usually, there is no silver bullet, it all depends on a combination of things.

Please don't get me wrong please, I would prefer a Feral game anytime. But not because they are more native than other Linux games, but because their ports are stable, have support and perform really really well.

PS: Some background info on what Feral is actually doing: Vulkanised 2018 - Porting to Vulkan (Alex Smith - Feral Interactive)


Last edited by jens on 11 January 2019 at 7:27 pm UTC

Quoting: jensWould you mind putting all your screenshots in a spoiler tag? Scrolling is somewhat exhausting with that much content.

Added spoiler for various images but dont all (leave some images)

^_^

Quoting: Kimyrielle

Quoting: einherjarIf I look at the things like exclusives in Epic Store, Discord, Ubisoft heading away from Steam and so on, I don't think that there will be a lot of AAA Titles on Steam....
So proton perhaps won't bring as AAA Titles, because they don't appear on Steam :-(

I am not aware that Epic had an interesting exclusive other than Fortnite itself, which is that current hype game without the store would probably collapse inside 5 mins.

Ubi - either I am missing something, or they still sell their titles on Steam, they just require a link to UPlay to work.

The only larger publishers I am aware of that consistently refuse to sell on Steam are EA and Blizz, and those have been doing so for a long time now.

Ubisoft recently announced that The Division 2 is skipping Steam in favour of the Epic Store, is what they mean.

A trend that will increase as Epic Games throw money around and act like the really good guy. I expect Valve to make multiple interesting moves this year.

Quoting: Kimyrielle

Quoting: einherjarIf I look at the things like exclusives in Epic Store, Discord, Ubisoft heading away from Steam and so on, I don't think that there will be a lot of AAA Titles on Steam....
So proton perhaps won't bring as AAA Titles, because they don't appear on Steam :-(

I am not aware that Epic had an interesting exclusive other than Fortnite itself, which is that current hype game without the store would probably collapse inside 5 mins.

Ubi - either I am missing something, or they still sell their titles on Steam, they just require a link to UPlay to work.

The only larger publishers I am aware of that consistently refuse to sell on Steam are EA and Blizz, and those have been doing so for a long time now.

As far as I read, in the future Ubisoft won't sell new games on Steam: Link (German)
The Division 2 will only be on Epic Store and Uplay....

Is there a way to automatically find games in my steam game library that still need ProtonDB reviews? I'd consider to help that way.

Quoting: constIs there a way to automatically find games in my steam game library that still need ProtonDB reviews? I'd consider to help that way.

If you are logged in ProtonDB, click here

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: XpanderThere are actually more platinum ones as some people report issues with really outdated drivers or have distros that doesn't have file description limits increased to use esync.

Well, hopefully ProtonDB will apply some limits to what entries can do to a rating when they're using rather outdated specs.

or just take GOLD+PLATINUM

DOOM only has GOLD and its whitelisted
all wolfenstein also just have GOLD

i bought some gold games like prey, ryse and batman and they all work OOTB

btw do you know when its posible to install the windows version even if there is a native port?
both metro just suck on my machine and i wanna try them with proton.
or dead island wont start and i also wanna try with proton

Try this: https://github.com/Holston5/Native2Proton

i like 1 click solutions
so no date when steam has it built-in

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: riusmaSteam Play is the new "500+ [incremental] Linux games natively available on Steam" headline! ^_^

Which may be more interesting and valuable to some, since it will include a lot of AAA titles.

The moment Fallout 4 and GTA 5 is fully running without tampering, I'm all over'em babies. :)

GTA V already is working great ootb with SteamPlay, just install the Nvidia 415.25 drivers.

The only issue it has, is that the GTA Online tutorial can't be completed. You can however skip the tutorial and play GTA Online right away.

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: XpanderThere are actually more platinum ones as some people report issues with really outdated drivers or have distros that doesn't have file description limits increased to use esync.

Well, hopefully ProtonDB will apply some limits to what entries can do to a rating when they're using rather outdated specs.

or just take GOLD+PLATINUM

DOOM only has GOLD and its whitelisted
all wolfenstein also just have GOLD

i bought some gold games like prey, ryse and batman and they all work OOTB

btw do you know when its posible to install the windows version even if there is a native port?
both metro just suck on my machine and i wanna try them with proton.
or dead island wont start and i also wanna try with proton

Try this: https://github.com/Holston5/Native2Proton

i like 1 click solutions
so no date when steam has it built-in

Valve have not said yet if they will do this.

Not exatly a Steam Play thing, but EA/DICE Battlefield V, a top AAA game works perfectly on Linux + DXVK + Esync.

On the other hand, a Steam game, i.e. Insurgency:Sandstorm was starting to work perfectly under WINE, then you get kicked out because of BattleEye Anti-Cheat that was lacking some Kernel calls, and this was back in August 2018, and I saw WINE since then focusing on BE's requirement, not sure how far this has been gone, might give it another try under Proton.

Linux has come a long way already, and it seems it might start getting some serious love in the next couple of years.

Praise Lord Gaben.

Quoting: LionheartNot exatly a Steam Play thing, but EA/DICE Battlefield V, a top AAA game works perfectly on Linux + DXVK + Esync.

Is Esync already included in stable, devel or staging Wine?

Does it work together with DXVK?

Anybody remember when we were cheering the 500th Linux title available on Steam? Okay, now imagine the number of Proton/SteamPlay titles available in a few years!

Suck it Epic!

Quoting: jensNow it happens that Feral games seem to score really really well on three points. That is partially indeed because having less translation layers may score better in terms of performance, but mostly because they simply know how to do their job. There are a lots of examples where a different approach with a general translation layer like dxvk (where the author also very well knows how to do his job) can yield better results than something that is non-optimally coded "natively" on Linux. So as usually, there is no silver bullet, it all depends on a combination of things.

Please don't get me wrong please, I would prefer a Feral game anytime. But not because they are more native than other Linux games, but because their ports are stable, have support and perform really really well.

PS: Some background info on what Feral is actually doing: Vulkanised 2018 - Porting to Vulkan (Alex Smith - Feral Interactive)

If a port is well made, you'll always get a better performance than with DXVK + wine.

As the video shows, Feral works on making a port for each game doing a analysis of where they can work to get the best speed up. In fact, it also shows how they tries to understand how the driver works (in the case of the open source drivers) so they choose the right strategy. With this said, is quite idiotic to keep trying to see a Feral port as a non native (you're trying to leave their work at the same level as with DXVK + wine, which is definitely not the case!).

I insist in that we must give priority on supporting this companies that do this native ports. They do extremely low level work that improves a lot Linux distro in general, no to mention the quality you get (at least with Feral has been a guarantee for me).

The equation is simple: if I buy a proton supported game, a windows game developer and Steam gets my money (70% for windows only publisher/dev and 30% for proton devs). But if I buy a native port I know that a Linux dev + Steam gets my money (X% for publisher ,Y% for Linux dev and 30% for proton devs). In the end, is all about where we invest our money, and our goal should be to give as much as we can to the ones that improves our OS.

I bet that Tomb Raider 2013 runs better on wine+dxvk than the abandoned openGL port made by Feral... The same goes for the Metro Redux..
That is why I WANT TO CHOOSE how to play my games on Linux: Windows version via Proton or "Native" version...
C'mon, Valve! I know you can do it!

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: jensNow it happens that Feral games seem to score really really well on three points. That is partially indeed because having less translation layers may score better in terms of performance, but mostly because they simply know how to do their job. There are a lots of examples where a different approach with a general translation layer like dxvk (where the author also very well knows how to do his job) can yield better results than something that is non-optimally coded "natively" on Linux. So as usually, there is no silver bullet, it all depends on a combination of things.

Please don't get me wrong please, I would prefer a Feral game anytime. But not because they are more native than other Linux games, but because their ports are stable, have support and perform really really well.

PS: Some background info on what Feral is actually doing: Vulkanised 2018 - Porting to Vulkan (Alex Smith - Feral Interactive)

If a port is well made, you'll always get a better performance than with DXVK + wine.

As the video shows, Feral works on making a port for each game doing a analysis of where they can work to get the best speed up. In fact, it also shows how they tries to understand how the driver works (in the case of the open source drivers) so they choose the right strategy. With this said, is quite idiotic to keep trying to see a Feral port as a non native (you're trying to leave their work at the same level as with DXVK + wine, which is definitely not the case!).

I insist in that we must give priority on supporting this companies that do this native ports. They do extremely low level work that improves a lot Linux distro in general, no to mention the quality you get (at least with Feral has been a guarantee for me).

The equation is simple: if I buy a proton supported game, a windows game developer and Steam gets my money (70% for windows only publisher/dev and 30% for proton devs). But if I buy a native port I know that a Linux dev + Steam gets my money (X% for publisher ,Y% for Linux dev and 30% for proton devs). In the end, is all about where we invest our money, and our goal should be to give as much as we can to the ones that improves our OS.

I don't know why you got the impression that I would not care for developers/publishers that release for Linux. That is certainly not the case ;). E.g. I'm eagerly awaiting Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I'll buy it on day one directly from Feral at full price (well except when there is a discount in Feral's store on day one ;))

What I don't mind is the technical aspect how a game is made for Linux as long as it runs fine on my machine (my response was mostly about this) and that it is visible that I'm a Linux player. I have enjoyed Rise of the Tomb Raider and F1 2017 from Feral, but equally enjoyed GTA5 and now Dark Souls 3 using Steam Play. In case of the latter two I ensured that I buy and play from the Linux Steam version to make sure that they appear as Linux purchases in the Steam statistics.

Regarding your last paragraph, the development of DXVK certainly also contributed to the quality of the graphics stack on Linux.


Last edited by jens on 12 January 2019 at 6:15 pm UTC

Quoting: Comandante Ñoñardo

Quoting: constIs there a way to automatically find games in my steam game library that still need ProtonDB reviews? I'd consider to help that way.

If you are logged in ProtonDB, click here

Thanks, though there are quite a lot of games that actually have a native version in that list ("include native" is unchecked)

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Kimyrielle

Quoting: einherjarIf I look at the things like exclusives in Epic Store, Discord, Ubisoft heading away from Steam and so on, I don't think that there will be a lot of AAA Titles on Steam....
So proton perhaps won't bring as AAA Titles, because they don't appear on Steam :-(

I am not aware that Epic had an interesting exclusive other than Fortnite itself, which is that current hype game without the store would probably collapse inside 5 mins.

Ubi - either I am missing something, or they still sell their titles on Steam, they just require a link to UPlay to work.

The only larger publishers I am aware of that consistently refuse to sell on Steam are EA and Blizz, and those have been doing so for a long time now.

Ubisoft recently announced that The Division 2 is skipping Steam in favour of the Epic Store, is what they mean.

A trend that will increase as Epic Games throw money around and act like the really good guy. I expect Valve to make multiple interesting moves this year.

Well, it'll increase if people actually go to the Epic store and buy things. If the first few big Epic exclusives sell way less than they would've predicted, I'm thinking there's gonna be some slinking back to Steam with tail between legs.