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PayPalWhile this might not be specific to Linux gaming, it's still something interesting I've wanted to talk about. Metro Exodus from 4A Games and Deep Silver has jumped ship from Steam to the Epic Store.
I waited for the situation to become clear before saying anything on this, as it got a little…ugly.
Last night, the team behind Metro Exodus announced the change saying that "the digital PC version of Metro Exodus will now be available to purchase solely through EpicGames.com". In their official announcement, nothing about it being a timed exclusive was mentioned and so a lot of people were left quite unhappy.
This led Valve, to actually put out a statement on the Steam store page, which reads:
Notice: Sales of Metro Exodus have been discontinued on Steam due to a publisher decision to make the game exclusive to another PC store.
The developer and publisher have assured us that all prior sales of the game on Steam will be fulfilled on Steam, and Steam owners will be able to access the game and any future updates or DLC through Steam.
We think the decision to remove the game is unfair to Steam customers, especially after a long pre-sale period. We apologize to Steam customers that were expecting it to be available for sale through the February 15th release date, but we were only recently informed of the decision and given limited time to let everyone know.
Soon after this, the Metro team put up an announcement on Steam where it does actually mention that Metro Exodus will come back to Steam "after 14th February 2020". To do this so close to release, feels really off.
I've seen a lot of arguments both for and against the Epic Store across the net, with wildly varying opinions on each side of the argument. For gamers, competition between stores can be a really good and helpful thing and we all know Steam could do with a little competition. Valve have dragged their heels on so many things over the years, I firmly hope this is a good kick up their backside to do better.
However, the way Epic is going about it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. I don't think forcing and annoying people into using another launcher is a good way to go, at all. Rather than compete on customer service, value for money, features and so on Epic are forcing people to look at them. For developers, the short-term gain might be good but do they really, honestly, expect the free to play Fortnite audience which is Epic's bread and butter to translate into sales for AAA games? I've become a lot more sceptical of this recently and I think it's largely the reason Epic is throwing money around to try and force a change.
As Epic Games continue throwing money at developers and publishers, I expect things to get even uglier as the year goes on. For us, it's not a good thing, as time and time again Epic Games have shown how little they care about Linux (we're not even on the damn roadmap) and that's sad as we will be the ones losing out.
For Valve, the more they lose like this the quicker they will need to react. I'm going to end up sounding like a broken record here, but they need to seriously get back into their own IP. Half-Life, Left 4 Dead, Portal and so on. Especially after Artifact basically failed them, although they again said they're "Still in it for the long haul" in the most recent update to it.
Not just that, reducing their cut from developers may be inevitable too, it would certainly show they understand the market is changing considering how many developers feel Steam's 30% cut isn't worth it. The most recent "GDC State of the Industry report" showed that only six percent of developers thought Valve were doing enough for it. I don't think Valve need to match Epic on the cut either given how popular Steam already is, even a 5% reduction could be massive for smaller developers.
Linux gamers might think differently on that point though, since Valve help to fund various open source projects and that would likely reduce their ability or enthusiasm to do so. We're not a big enough audience for them to put more of their eggs in our basket—yet.
No matter what happens, I can't imagine Valve just rolling over and allowing Epic to set up shop on their lawn. I'm very curious to see what they have up their sleeves. A competitive Steam is good for everyone!
At least by the time Metro Exodus comes back to Steam, we will see if they made any sort of decision on Linux support (as they currently won't say—likely a no). If not, that's a long time for Steam Play to mature for those who use it.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Nevertheless Jan 30, 2019
Quoting: johndoeQuoting: NeverthelessEpic analysed Steam well. Maybe that's why Valve removed Steamspy's foundation lately.
Epic managed to make Valve look naive and greedy, they speak of openness and fairness, but their methods are quite the opposite.
I cannot remember reading that Valve removed SteamSpy - i think they still want to improve it.
But yes - I think also that taking 30% is way TOO MUCH.
They did not remove it, they restricted open information about Steam accounts, which was the foundation of SteamSpy. And of course they could have done that purely out of privacy reasons..
I must admit, I don't really know if 30% ist too much. I only know 30% is more than 12%, and Valves services are different than Epics services. I can also read the differences between:
Valves Privacy Policy Agreement
https://store.steampowered.com/privacy_agreement/english/
and Epic Games Privacy Policy
https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/privacypolicy
"How We Use and Share Information
...
To develop, deliver, and improve our products, services, and other offerings, some of which may be offered in partnership with other parties;
To manage and customize advertisements or promotional offers;
... "
This is interesting and might answer some questions why 12% are enough to Epic. Of course it might not. That it's in their privacy policy does not mean they really do it, and if they do, to what extent. But Epics busyness has to be sustainable and right now they're throwing money at developers.
All I really want to say is, life is very often a bit more complicated than the comparison of two numbers.
Nevertheless Jan 30, 2019
Quoting: liamdaweQuoting: NeverthelessEpic analysed Steam well. Maybe that's why Valve removed Steamspy's foundation lately.Valve adjusted stuff that messed with it back in April last year and nothing recently I am aware of, which was mostly a side-effect of Valve's new privacy features. SteamSpy relying on public profile info wasn't great to begin with.
Yes it's quite possible that the removal of Steamspy's data basis was coincidental with privacy interests. One thing I still find interesting:
Valve sits on a really big pile of datamining opportunity, which they seem to use for the optimization of their own operations and sales only. They even left some user account information out in the open, which was farmed and used by SteamSpy to publish it in a readable form. Valve left a lot of financial opportunity unused, because they were not interested in selling user data, and the one who collected the publicly open data is the same person who developed the Epic store, which brags with a revenue of just 12% and tells us in their privacy policy they might sell user information ("To develop, deliver, and improve our products, services, and other offerings, some of which may be offered in partnership with other parties").
Of course I don't know who is hen or egg, Epic or Steamspy. It just stands out.
Last edited by Nevertheless on 30 January 2019 at 8:28 am UTC
Edit: Comments are open again, let's not have GOL full of completely offtopic war politics. Not up for debate, take it elsewhere, this is not the place.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 30 January 2019 at 9:03 am UTC
Quoting: TobyGornowMaybe the Orange box was the wrong example ( still an exclusive, You could install Half life 1 without Steam ), take Yakuza 0 instead : you cannot buy it physically, in any way, even if you could you'll be kindly invited to connect on Steam. You can buy it on Humble or elsewhere, sure... and activate it on Steam. In any case, you'll end up on Steam. That's why I said it's time that Valve gets a taste of his own medicine, there is a lot of exclusive on Steam that are not Valve's IP.
That's the publisher's fault for not releasing it anywhere else. That's completely different from what Epic is doing. Other devs release their games on multiple stores.
Quoting: SalvatosI doubt Valve would let any publisher sell thousands of keys without taking their cut, no matter if the keys come in a box or an e-mail.It's hard to say for certain. There is a game named Far-Out which was removed from Steam because the developer paid for reviews. I don't remember the exact specifics, but I believe the developer came clean to Valve about what he had done, and the game was subsequently delisted. He may have also been banned from publishing any future games on Steam; I'm not certain. He still sells Steam keys (which must have been generated prior to the game being delisted) on itch.io (he also used to sell Steam keys for the game through G2A and G2Play, but it appears he is down to a few remaining keys left). Under these circumstances, I doubt Valve received a portion of the sales after the game was no longer available for purchase on Steam.
TobyGornow Jan 30, 2019
Quoting: kuhpunktQuoting: TobyGornowMaybe the Orange box was the wrong example ( still an exclusive, You could install Half life 1 without Steam ), take Yakuza 0 instead : you cannot buy it physically, in any way, even if you could you'll be kindly invited to connect on Steam. You can buy it on Humble or elsewhere, sure... and activate it on Steam. In any case, you'll end up on Steam. That's why I said it's time that Valve gets a taste of his own medicine, there is a lot of exclusive on Steam that are not Valve's IP.
That's the publisher's fault for not releasing it anywhere else. That's completely different from what Epic is doing. Other devs release their games on multiple stores.
Same thing dude, Yakuza is tied to Steam as much as Exodus is tied (temporarily) to Epic store, that's simple exclusivity for me, Valve made us and dev captive for too long, today your a big publisher you have to put your catalog on Steam otherwise you'll sell peanuts.
And in Epic case, they just made a cash proposition to Deep silver that was accepted, it's just fair business against a competition using the same tools and again no emotions in business. I repeat it : Deep Silver should suffer a massive boycott of their games but it won't happen, people are sheep waiting to be shaved and then put down. Epic is not at fault here, they are just competing against an enemy in an almost monopolistic position and they need big guns in order to do it. Valve is not a Care Bear, they deserve some hard competition.
Last edited by TobyGornow on 30 January 2019 at 9:38 am UTC
Quoting: TobyGornowSame thing dude, Yakuza is tied to Steam as much as Exodus is tied (temporarily) to Epic store, that's simple exclusivity for me, Valve made us and dev captive for too long, today your a big publisher you have to put your catalog on Steam otherwise you'll sell peanuts.
It's not the same thing. They just chose to go there and use Steam, while you can still buy the game at many other stores.
And I'd be happy for other stores to get Yakuza without the Steam-connection. THQ is doing that for example. You can buy Darksiders 3 pretty much everywhere, which is something Valve promotes.
Nevertheless Jan 30, 2019
Quoting: TobyGornowQuoting: kuhpunktQuoting: TobyGornowMaybe the Orange box was the wrong example ( still an exclusive, You could install Half life 1 without Steam ), take Yakuza 0 instead : you cannot buy it physically, in any way, even if you could you'll be kindly invited to connect on Steam. You can buy it on Humble or elsewhere, sure... and activate it on Steam. In any case, you'll end up on Steam. That's why I said it's time that Valve gets a taste of his own medicine, there is a lot of exclusive on Steam that are not Valve's IP.
That's the publisher's fault for not releasing it anywhere else. That's completely different from what Epic is doing. Other devs release their games on multiple stores.
Same thing dude, Yakuza is tied to Steam as much as Exodus is tied (temporarily) to Epic store, that's simple exclusivity for me, Valve made us and dev captive for too long, today your a big publisher you have to put your catalog on Steam otherwise you'll sell peanuts.
And in Epic case, they just made a cash proposition to Deep silver that was accepted, it's just fair business against a competition using the same tools and again no emotions in business. I repeat it : Deep Silver should suffer a massive boycott of their games but it won't happen, people are sheep waiting to be shaved and then put down. Epic is not at fault here, they are just competing against an enemy in an almost monopolistic position and they need big guns in order to do it. Valve is not a Care Bear, they deserve some hard competition.
Compare it to the only supermarket in town. It has a good relationship with other, smaller stores in the neighborhood, and it even develops stuff usable by them too. Still it might be the only store who sells bananas in the whole area you live in. When someone else opens up a supermarket next to it and claims the whole banana market for itself (say for the next year, prunes is forever), you really think that's the same?
Last edited by Nevertheless on 30 January 2019 at 9:57 am UTC
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.....(.(....(....(..../.) ..)..EPIC STORE...(..(.\....).....)....).)....
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-> https://steamcommunity.com/games/412020/announcements/detail/1691566844144954098
Last edited by KuJo on 30 January 2019 at 9:57 am UTC
Quoting: devnullWonder what happens if one bought the game on Epic's store and activated it later on steam? Valve would lose out on some cash while still being on the hook for infrastructure support.
How would that even work? It's not like you're getting a Steam key on EGS.
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