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PayPalWhile this might not be specific to Linux gaming, it's still something interesting I've wanted to talk about. Metro Exodus from 4A Games and Deep Silver has jumped ship from Steam to the Epic Store.
I waited for the situation to become clear before saying anything on this, as it got a little…ugly.
Last night, the team behind Metro Exodus announced the change saying that "the digital PC version of Metro Exodus will now be available to purchase solely through EpicGames.com". In their official announcement, nothing about it being a timed exclusive was mentioned and so a lot of people were left quite unhappy.
This led Valve, to actually put out a statement on the Steam store page, which reads:
Notice: Sales of Metro Exodus have been discontinued on Steam due to a publisher decision to make the game exclusive to another PC store.
The developer and publisher have assured us that all prior sales of the game on Steam will be fulfilled on Steam, and Steam owners will be able to access the game and any future updates or DLC through Steam.
We think the decision to remove the game is unfair to Steam customers, especially after a long pre-sale period. We apologize to Steam customers that were expecting it to be available for sale through the February 15th release date, but we were only recently informed of the decision and given limited time to let everyone know.
Soon after this, the Metro team put up an announcement on Steam where it does actually mention that Metro Exodus will come back to Steam "after 14th February 2020". To do this so close to release, feels really off.
I've seen a lot of arguments both for and against the Epic Store across the net, with wildly varying opinions on each side of the argument. For gamers, competition between stores can be a really good and helpful thing and we all know Steam could do with a little competition. Valve have dragged their heels on so many things over the years, I firmly hope this is a good kick up their backside to do better.
However, the way Epic is going about it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. I don't think forcing and annoying people into using another launcher is a good way to go, at all. Rather than compete on customer service, value for money, features and so on Epic are forcing people to look at them. For developers, the short-term gain might be good but do they really, honestly, expect the free to play Fortnite audience which is Epic's bread and butter to translate into sales for AAA games? I've become a lot more sceptical of this recently and I think it's largely the reason Epic is throwing money around to try and force a change.
As Epic Games continue throwing money at developers and publishers, I expect things to get even uglier as the year goes on. For us, it's not a good thing, as time and time again Epic Games have shown how little they care about Linux (we're not even on the damn roadmap) and that's sad as we will be the ones losing out.
For Valve, the more they lose like this the quicker they will need to react. I'm going to end up sounding like a broken record here, but they need to seriously get back into their own IP. Half-Life, Left 4 Dead, Portal and so on. Especially after Artifact basically failed them, although they again said they're "Still in it for the long haul" in the most recent update to it.
Not just that, reducing their cut from developers may be inevitable too, it would certainly show they understand the market is changing considering how many developers feel Steam's 30% cut isn't worth it. The most recent "GDC State of the Industry report" showed that only six percent of developers thought Valve were doing enough for it. I don't think Valve need to match Epic on the cut either given how popular Steam already is, even a 5% reduction could be massive for smaller developers.
Linux gamers might think differently on that point though, since Valve help to fund various open source projects and that would likely reduce their ability or enthusiasm to do so. We're not a big enough audience for them to put more of their eggs in our basket—yet.
No matter what happens, I can't imagine Valve just rolling over and allowing Epic to set up shop on their lawn. I'm very curious to see what they have up their sleeves. A competitive Steam is good for everyone!
At least by the time Metro Exodus comes back to Steam, we will see if they made any sort of decision on Linux support (as they currently won't say—likely a no). If not, that's a long time for Steam Play to mature for those who use it.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Quoting: gradyvuckovicIt's pretty simple for me.
I already have a Steam account.
I already have over 200 games in Steam.
I have no desire to see Steam suffer, because any threat to Steam is a treat to my game library.
Steam is run by Valve. Valve heavily supports Linux, more so than any commercial entity would while thinking rationally and I am infinitely grateful to them as a result.
Exclusives aren't competition, exclusives are the opposite of competition. I refuse to be forced to use a platform due to exclusives.
I wouldn't buy a game from a store that doesn't even have a native Linux client, even if I was interested in shopping elsewhere.
What cut Valve takes from devs is irrelevant to me, as Steam's prices are usually better than what I get in retail stores, they run frequent specials with great discounts.
Steam's service is fantastic imo, and I am not on board with the mindset of 'Everything needs to be redesigned every 2 years to stay cool', that's not actually user friendly at all. If something is already great, it doesn't need to be redesigned, it just needs to be refined and Valve have been refining Steam for a decade. It's almost perfect the way it is.
Fortnite needs to die as soon as possible to cut off Epic's source of revenue, I can't believe I use to think they were an OK company.
Great post. I can't believe @Shmerl is holding his/her(?) tongue over this thread so well, because of course not only is the shoe on the other foot (exclusives outside of Steam), but also you've raise the excellent point that a threat to Steam/Valve is indeed a threat to your carefully horded (and paid-for) steam library. We're just renting those titles (permanently) rather than owning them.
Is Epic running the same gig? Or can you download a DRM-free version of their titles for play without the need for the Epic launcher? Knowing Epic, I'd expect both a forced launcher AND draconian, bullshit DRM on everything. In fact, isn't Metro getting the Denuvo treatment now too?
Shmerl's probably cackling away at the irony of us Steam users realising that Steam's DRM threatens those precious libraries. Okay, probably not. Shmerls always struck me as a fairly mature dude. I'd be cackling away though, if I didn't have nearly 800 (!) titles on Steam right now and precious few are DRM-free from Humble, GOG, or Itch.
I am buying more Itch titles these days though. Love those guys. Especially love the fact that you can overpay on that platform if you choose. Not so much of a fan that they apply VAT at the end of the transaction though. I wish they'd tidy that up.
Mohandevir Feb 1, 2019
Quoting: scaineQuoting: gradyvuckovicIt's pretty simple for me.
I already have a Steam account.
I already have over 200 games in Steam.
I have no desire to see Steam suffer, because any threat to Steam is a treat to my game library.
Steam is run by Valve. Valve heavily supports Linux, more so than any commercial entity would while thinking rationally and I am infinitely grateful to them as a result.
Exclusives aren't competition, exclusives are the opposite of competition. I refuse to be forced to use a platform due to exclusives.
I wouldn't buy a game from a store that doesn't even have a native Linux client, even if I was interested in shopping elsewhere.
What cut Valve takes from devs is irrelevant to me, as Steam's prices are usually better than what I get in retail stores, they run frequent specials with great discounts.
Steam's service is fantastic imo, and I am not on board with the mindset of 'Everything needs to be redesigned every 2 years to stay cool', that's not actually user friendly at all. If something is already great, it doesn't need to be redesigned, it just needs to be refined and Valve have been refining Steam for a decade. It's almost perfect the way it is.
Fortnite needs to die as soon as possible to cut off Epic's source of revenue, I can't believe I use to think they were an OK company.
Great post. I can't believe @Shmerl is holding his/her(?) tongue over this thread so well, because of course not only is the shoe on the other foot (exclusives outside of Steam), but also you've raise the excellent point that a threat to Steam/Valve is indeed a threat to your carefully horded (and paid-for) steam library. We're just renting those titles (permanently) rather than owning them.
Is Epic running the same gig? Or can you download a DRM-free version of their titles for play without the need for the Epic launcher? Knowing Epic, I'd expect both a forced launcher AND draconian, bullshit DRM on everything. In fact, isn't Metro getting the Denuvo treatment now too?
Shmerl's probably cackling away at the irony of us Steam users realising that Steam's DRM threatens those precious libraries. Okay, probably not. Shmerls always struck me as a fairly mature dude. I'd be cackling away though, if I didn't have nearly 800 (!) titles on Steam right now and precious few are DRM-free from Humble, GOG, or Itch.
I am buying more Itch titles these days though. Love those guys. Especially love the fact that you can overpay on that platform if you choose. Not so much of a fan that they apply VAT at the end of the transaction though. I wish they'd tidy that up.
I can't say if it applies for a lot more titles than this, but I'm able to launch Steam's Witcher 3 without even launching Steam, as a standalone game, just with Wine+DXVK and the Witcher.exe launcher. All is not doom and gloom in an hypothetical Steam failure. That's what I was doing before Proton. You just need to keep a backup of those games. Is this what you are referring to?
Quoting: scaine...you've raise the excellent point that a threat to Steam/Valve is indeed a threat to your carefully horded (and paid-for) steam library. We're just renting those titles (permanently) rather than owning them.Outstanding point... Good question about Epic, and I agree with you that given their history, draconian is what we could probably expect on DRM...
Is Epic running the same gig? Or can you download a DRM-free version of their titles for play without the need for the Epic launcher? Knowing Epic, I'd expect both a forced launcher AND draconian, bullshit DRM on everything.
Quoting: iiariQuoting: scaineIs Epic running the same gig? Or can you download a DRM-free version of their titles for play without the need for the Epic launcher? Knowing Epic, I'd expect both a forced launcher AND draconian, bullshit DRM on everything.Outstanding point... Good question about Epic, and I agree with you that given their history, draconian is what we could probably expect on DRM...
I only checked the free Subnautica, so I don't exactly have a big sampling size. But the Launcher is the only way to download the game. After it is downloaded, it is installed in a separate directory, it didn't launch from there directly. I checked the launch command when it was started from the launcher and that shows that it passes on the user and authentication hash to the game as command line options.
chris.echoz Feb 1, 2019
Quoting: MohandevirQuoting: scaineQuoting: gradyvuckovicIt's pretty simple for me.
I already have a Steam account.
I already have over 200 games in Steam.
I have no desire to see Steam suffer, because any threat to Steam is a treat to my game library.
Steam is run by Valve. Valve heavily supports Linux, more so than any commercial entity would while thinking rationally and I am infinitely grateful to them as a result.
Exclusives aren't competition, exclusives are the opposite of competition. I refuse to be forced to use a platform due to exclusives.
I wouldn't buy a game from a store that doesn't even have a native Linux client, even if I was interested in shopping elsewhere.
What cut Valve takes from devs is irrelevant to me, as Steam's prices are usually better than what I get in retail stores, they run frequent specials with great discounts.
Steam's service is fantastic imo, and I am not on board with the mindset of 'Everything needs to be redesigned every 2 years to stay cool', that's not actually user friendly at all. If something is already great, it doesn't need to be redesigned, it just needs to be refined and Valve have been refining Steam for a decade. It's almost perfect the way it is.
Fortnite needs to die as soon as possible to cut off Epic's source of revenue, I can't believe I use to think they were an OK company.
Great post. I can't believe @Shmerl is holding his/her(?) tongue over this thread so well, because of course not only is the shoe on the other foot (exclusives outside of Steam), but also you've raise the excellent point that a threat to Steam/Valve is indeed a threat to your carefully horded (and paid-for) steam library. We're just renting those titles (permanently) rather than owning them.
Is Epic running the same gig? Or can you download a DRM-free version of their titles for play without the need for the Epic launcher? Knowing Epic, I'd expect both a forced launcher AND draconian, bullshit DRM on everything. In fact, isn't Metro getting the Denuvo treatment now too?
Shmerl's probably cackling away at the irony of us Steam users realising that Steam's DRM threatens those precious libraries. Okay, probably not. Shmerls always struck me as a fairly mature dude. I'd be cackling away though, if I didn't have nearly 800 (!) titles on Steam right now and precious few are DRM-free from Humble, GOG, or Itch.
I am buying more Itch titles these days though. Love those guys. Especially love the fact that you can overpay on that platform if you choose. Not so much of a fan that they apply VAT at the end of the transaction though. I wish they'd tidy that up.
I can't say if it applies for a lot more titles than this, but I'm able to launch Steam's Witcher 3 without even launching Steam, as a standalone game, just with Wine+DXVK and the Witcher.exe launcher. All is not doom and gloom in an hypothetical Steam failure. That's what I was doing before Proton. You just need to keep a backup of those games. Is this what you are referring to?
CD Project Red have been vocal about not believing DRM is a good tool, so they don't add it to their games ( although I find it ironic that they only write their games for platforms that themselves are DRM-encumbered ).
There is no requirement for Steam Developers to use any form of DRM, and the actual DRM function provided by Valve is, by their own admission, very weak. Their advice to developers is not to bother with the DRM functions, but just to embed Steam features that need an authenticated account.
I would expect that a high proportion of your Steam titles could be easily recovered if the service disappeared, so long as you have kept a copy, since you may no longer be able to download. I'm not clear how you would prove your rights though.
Mohandevir Feb 1, 2019
Quoting: etonbearsI would expect that a high proportion of your Steam titles could be easily recovered if the service disappeared, so long as you have kept a copy, since you may no longer be able to download.
Just an educated guess: Chances are that they are the same games that are playable in offline mode, and there are quite a lot of them.
Last edited by Mohandevir on 1 February 2019 at 7:38 pm UTC
Quoting: MohandevirQuoting: etonbearsI would expect that a high proportion of your Steam titles could be easily recovered if the service disappeared, so long as you have kept a copy, since you may no longer be able to download.
Just an educated guess: Chances are that they are the same games that are playable in offline mode, and there are quite a lot of them.
Probably more, depending on how each game works. If necessary, you can work out what game does and replace the bits you don't want. Machine code is not easy to read, but it is perfectly transparent. It can be reversed to assembler trivially, and to higher level call structures with a little more work. Stepping through the code with debugging and profiling tools allows you to find the parts you don't want to execute and overwrite with a jump instruction to where you wish to continue. Sometimes all you need to do is replace a dynamic library with an equivalent with do-nothing function calls. This would be the case for anything just requesting steam services as authentication/DRM.
The inability to truly obfuscate software is why malware and piracy are so rampant, and why DRM is nothing more than a delaying tactic.
Quoting: iiariQuoting: scaine...you've raise the excellent point that a threat to Steam/Valve is indeed a threat to your carefully horded (and paid-for) steam library. We're just renting those titles (permanently) rather than owning them.Outstanding point... Good question about Epic, and I agree with you that given their history, draconian is what we could probably expect on DRM...
Is Epic running the same gig? Or can you download a DRM-free version of their titles for play without the need for the Epic launcher? Knowing Epic, I'd expect both a forced launcher AND draconian, bullshit DRM on everything.
http://i.imgur.com/4sa1Ln6.jpg
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18mzcn/i_asked_steam_support_what_happens_to_my_games_if/
Quoting: GuestAnd now the Dev(s) from Metro are saying that the next Metro if there is a sequel probably wont come to PC when the sales are low. Sooo....there will be a PC version because lets be real everyone will buy it. NOW everyone is like bah epic and boycott but in the end they will buy it. Its always the same.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/412020/discussions/0/1780513643852520184/
I don't think the developer's opinion translated very well. What I think they said was, IF ALL PC PLAYERS took the view of the screaming Steam fans, spewing bile at the developers, and refuse to buy Metro Exodus, then there would be no point in releasing any future game on the PC, since there would be no sales. It was not a threat.
The developer then says that they do not believe all PC players are as closed-minded as those complaining and fans will buy the game. You also seem to think most people will buy the game, even if they complain.
While I would prefer all games to be available in as many formats and outlets as possible, I find the aggressive and threatening attitude displayed by some gamers over not getting exactly what they want, when and how they want it, to be deeply disturbing. It is not the way to persuade other parties to your point of view, and is not the way anyone would behave in relation to physical retailing.
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