Just like what happened with Darwin Project only recently, it seems Paladins is no longer playable on Linux with Steam Play.
Late last month, I wrote an article and made a video showing off just how well Paladins was working on Linux thanks to Steam Play. Here we are again, only a couple weeks later and it's now a complete dud, with it almost instantly kicking me (and confirmed by others) out of games. You might get in for a few seconds, but with 100% reproduction it will kick you pretty quickly back to the main menu.
Back when previously writing about such an issue, I did make it clear with a note about how "with multiplayer titles and Steam Play there's nothing stopping the developer adjusting their anti-cheat which could end up locking-out Linux gamers".
It's a real shame, as both myself and my Son enjoyed playing Paladins and apart from a few issues which were also present on Windows, it worked beautifully with some really great performance.
While Steam Play has opened the door to a lot of titles not officially available on Linux, it's not quite the answer to everything as some like to repeatedly claim. This is obviously going to be a repeating problem with multiplayer games, so for now, I would honestly just keep away from any game using Easy Anti-Cheat with Steam Play. I will repeat what I said when I spoke about Darwin Project, I think Valve should really note on store pages what anti-cheat systems are used to help gamers make informed decisions.
What will be interesting, is that Valve said they will be rolling out "Steam Trust" in their post about some changes coming to Steam. Perhaps if more developers use Valve's own tools when they're available, this might not be such an issue since you would expect Valve's own tools to work with Steam Play.
I've reached out to Easy Anti-Cheat, again, to see if they would like a constructive chat about it. They didn't reply last time, so hopefully they will this time.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Everything started to consistently break after Epic bought EAC.
14 Likes, Who?
stretch611 Feb 9, 2019
valve needs to fix this problem.make the games think it is running in windows or something because alot of games are broken because of this drm crap.i have to use windows due to games not working.when it gets fixed ill ditch it for good.Valve does have a whitelist of games for SteamPlay. It is quite tiny compared to the actual games that do work with Proton.
I do not think Paladins was ever on that list.
5 Likes, Who?
Doesn't Valve already have their own anticheat solution, VAC?
2 Likes, Who?
valve needs to fix this problem.make the games think it is running in windows or something because alot of games are broken because of this drm crap.
That's simply not possible. Even VMs running a legitimate copy of Windows can be detected. There is software on Windows that simply refuses to run in a VM.
The problem is basically that anti-cheat software is actually doing its job. It's supposed to detect things in the system that can change stuff in the game that give players an advantage. But Wine in itself is the biggest tamper you can imagine, it literally has access to everything the game does. If it would get unnoticed by an anti-cheat system, it would simply mean the system is broken.
The best fix would be if these systems would not be necessary at all. Unfortunately a small percentage manage to ruin that for everyone. Which leaves the second best option, have the anti-cheat code be aware of Wine and accept it. I think many actually are. It certainly looks like EAC can accept Wine just fine because most EAC protected games have had stretches where it worked. Which makes me think it is considered a "weaker" setting which is then changed at some point leaving non-functional on wine.
Anyway, enough speculation on my part.
8 Likes, Who?
Who cares. That game is dumb as hell. I try it to check how well steamplay work and believe me that was the most boring experience.
0 Likes
That's simply not possible. Even VMs running a legitimate copy of Windows can be detected. There is software on Windows that simply refuses to run in a VM.
As far as i know that is mainly down to Hardware-IDs.
I know of a few examples that check for the CPU-ID and block accordingly. If you "fake" your KVM to a "real" CPU-ID it works flawlessly.
For the rest, i completely agree with you. It is a real shame that some devs won't even go through the miniscule effort to make sure their DRM/AntiCheat won't block wine/proton after it is reported to them. Devs with this attitude don't deserve our money for sure.
1 Likes, Who?
Who cares. That game is dumb as hell. I try it to check how well steamplay work and believe me that was the most boring experience.Yeah, who cares about a popular game with currently over 16 thousand people playing no longer working for us.
16 Likes, Who?
Who cares. That game is dumb as hell. I try it to check how well steamplay work and believe me that was the most boring experience.
Yeah well thats your opinion. While it wasn't anything brilliant it was good fun and not boring at all for me. Quick to get in, have like half an hour to hour of fun and then close it.. simple. free, ran amazingly performance wise and was fun.
Last edited by Xpander on 9 February 2019 at 1:35 pm UTC
3 Likes, Who?
valve needs to fix this problem.make the games think it is running in windows or something because alot of games are broken because of this drm crap.i have to use windows due to games not working.when it gets fixed ill ditch it for good.Valve does have a whitelist of games for SteamPlay. It is quite tiny compared to the actual games that do work with Proton.
I do not think Paladins was ever on that list.
Too bad Valve hasn't publicly released the whitelist. It would make it easy to point people to games that should work.
3 Likes, Who?
UltraAltesBrot Feb 9, 2019
Doesn't Valve already have their own anticheat solution, VAC?Yes, but not all devs decide to use it: Using it binds your product to Steam and sometimes the principles of VAC (delayed bans to catch as many cheaters as possible at once, ..) don't suffice the devs/publishers goals of fighting cheaters.
Many players even demand BattlEye, EAC, PunkBuster or whatever, because they think it's more efficient. For example the Counter-Strike pro players community ESEA has their own seemingly rather invasive anti-cheat solution to combat cheaters.
3 Likes, Who?
Your mind is sick if you want to shoot other players with a gun. That is why Skyrim, Rift and Final Fantasy XIV are better games than those FPS games. My kid did want to have a real gun and I did build a fps gaming computer. I hope my kid have learned some empathy when my kid dies in games.So... shooting people in-game is sick but slicing people up with swords and axes and setting them on fire or poisoning them is perfectly okay?
Alrighty, it's a good that you have a solid grasp of what is bad and what is not.
Last edited by Samsai on 9 February 2019 at 3:45 pm UTC
19 Likes, Who?
GustyGhost Feb 9, 2019
Who cares. That game is dumb as hell. I try it to check how well steamplay work and believe me that was the most boring experience.Yeah, who cares about a popular game with currently over 16 thousand people playing no longer working for us.
Appeal to Popularity. This same logic might lead one to believe that Disney-Star-of-the-year's musical numbers is objectively good music.
Disclaimer: I take no position on whether Paladins is "good" or "bad", however. The real lesson in these situations is that whenever you run software designed for other platforms through translation layers and emulators, it serves only to endorse the continued dominance of non-free standards.
6 Likes, Who?
I get what you're saying, but you likely got my overall point too. I played it, my son played at, other people in our own community played it and thousands of others enjoy it. I was directly replying to the idiotic "who cares" point.Who cares. That game is dumb as hell. I try it to check how well steamplay work and believe me that was the most boring experience.Yeah, who cares about a popular game with currently over 16 thousand people playing no longer working for us.
Appeal to Popularity. This same logic might lead one to believe that Disney-Star-of-the-year's musical numbers is objectively good music.
Disclaimer: I take no position on whether Paladins is "good" or "bad", however. The real lesson in these situations is that whenever you run software designed for other platforms through translation layers and emulators, it serves only to endorse the continued dominance of non-free standards.
2 Likes, Who?
The best fix would be if these systems would not be necessary at all. Unfortunately a small percentage manage to ruin that for everyone. Which leaves the second best option, have the anti-cheat code be aware of Wine and accept it. I think many actually are. It certainly looks like EAC can accept Wine just fine because most EAC protected games have had stretches where it worked. Which makes me think it is considered a "weaker" setting which is then changed at some point leaving non-functional on wine.I would much rather have a few opponents cheat than run anti cheat software that spy on me.
2 Likes, Who?
Who cares about yet another Windows game not running on Linux? As if it is the only one…
By now we are basically swimming in good native games, so why bother spending your time on some Windows title which developers don't even care about Linux?
P.S. And the "But… But… But it is sooooo popular with my classmates!!!" argument is just lame. As it was stated before, "Appeal to Popularity" is a common logic pitfall.
P.P.S. I know I'm also using a logic trick, basically "I personally do not care so every one else should not care" statement thinly veiled as a question. But it is no worse than "Many people care so you also should care" approach. :)
Last edited by Alm888 on 9 February 2019 at 4:56 pm UTC
By now we are basically swimming in good native games, so why bother spending your time on some Windows title which developers don't even care about Linux?
P.S. And the "But… But… But it is sooooo popular with my classmates!!!" argument is just lame. As it was stated before, "Appeal to Popularity" is a common logic pitfall.
P.P.S. I know I'm also using a logic trick, basically "I personally do not care so every one else should not care" statement thinly veiled as a question. But it is no worse than "Many people care so you also should care" approach. :)
Last edited by Alm888 on 9 February 2019 at 4:56 pm UTC
0 Likes
The other night I watched a few youtuber Rust sessions, and one video session involved two hardcore players taking on a clan of Rust players who were hacking the game / cheating. These hardcore duo were so good that they were still griefing the cheaters to the extreme, but you could see that these hackers were using aimbot technology so that they'd get headshots constantly.
The cheaters would get Banned by the countermeasures in place, but would then keep returning with a new player login, grab their clan weapons and continue taking on the non-cheating hardcores. I personally can see the need for this type of technology, but at the same time, it would be good if it wasn't configured indiscriminately knocking out edge-cases like Linux players using Proton.
Here is the hacker griefing session to which I was referring.
Last edited by g000h on 9 February 2019 at 7:10 pm UTC
The cheaters would get Banned by the countermeasures in place, but would then keep returning with a new player login, grab their clan weapons and continue taking on the non-cheating hardcores. I personally can see the need for this type of technology, but at the same time, it would be good if it wasn't configured indiscriminately knocking out edge-cases like Linux players using Proton.
Here is the hacker griefing session to which I was referring.
Last edited by g000h on 9 February 2019 at 7:10 pm UTC
2 Likes, Who?
Mblackwell Feb 9, 2019
valve needs to fix this problem.make the games think it is running in windows or something because alot of games are broken because of this drm crap.i have to use windows due to games not working.when it gets fixed ill ditch it for good.Valve does have a whitelist of games for SteamPlay. It is quite tiny compared to the actual games that do work with Proton.
I do not think Paladins was ever on that list.
Too bad Valve hasn't publicly released the whitelist. It would make it easy to point people to games that should work.
It's a bit odd, but you can look here for it though:
https://steamdb.info/app/891390/
1 Likes, Who?
Kimyrielle Feb 9, 2019
By now we are basically swimming in good native games, so why bother spending your time on some Windows title which developers don't even care about Linux?
Last time I checked, the number of big-budget games on Linux was not really stunning, and we seem to get LESS these days than 2-3 years back. Some genres are still missing completely (the number of good MMORPGs having a native client is still zero).
In all honesty, without WINE I probably would still play more in Windows, than Linux.
On-topic: While I can understand the need to combat cheaters, I never felt comfortable installing intrusive Anti-cheat software. I wish game devs came up with intelligent methods to detect cheating -behaviour- instead of the tools used to make it possible. Ideally, games should be designed from the ground up to make cheating impossible, so that EAC and Co wouldn't be needed. Security as an afterthought (and that's what Anti-Cheat software is) has never worked well anywhere.
3 Likes, Who?
Last time I checked, the number of big-budget games on Linux was not really stunning, and we seem to get LESS these days than 2-3 years back. Some genres are still missing completely (the number of good MMORPGs having a native client is still zero).Well, last time I checked my libraries, I still had several dozens of bought but not yet played games. And last time I checked general (read: Windows) gaming news sites they were full of whining about how "lootboxes", "pay-to-play" (not even "-to-win", LOL), and overblown "open world" design have basically ruined modern (so called "AAA") gaming. ;) In general
In all honesty, without WINE I probably would still play more in Windows, than Linux.
( big-budget /= (good .OR. fun) ):)
Don't even remember when I last time had Windows on my home PCs. :)
3 Likes, Who?
I think the company is shooting itself in the foot. While count of Linux players is not high, they still bring money (by some statistics much more per player than Windows users). I think Blizzard had some issues with WoW and OW, yet they managed to update their anti-cheat to work with Wine.
Linux has some selection of games, but some genres are under-represented and many genre leaders are not on Linux at all. For example Overwatch - there isn't many similar games at all, so you can't really find an alternative even on Windows. I did try Paladins for like 20 hours and Smite for many more (hundred at least). But Paladins seemed to be quite bland to me, majority of characters not really that interesting, some felt unfinished (probably b/c animations?) and their looks not matching, overall it felt quite rubber-bandy compared to OW (maybe an issue with EU servers?). Smite, well, only game mode I was interested in playing (arena?) was not supported by developers even though it was most popular one, so I left after some time (had some fun for free, can't complain).
To the security of games being afterthought, well, maybe, but if constructing special client and mainly server costs times more (if possible at all), then it is logical to make a game with checking main cheating tools rather than investing to development of new tech costing tons of money and in the end players not seeing anything for higher price of a game (which is purely hypothetical, since gamers are not willing to pay more, so publishers would have to cut it from their money). I think vast majority of people are severly underestimating how difficult is to build a fast multiplayer action game and what hoops have to jumped through for it to feel good = responsive, you can't trade game performance for "proper" security, because who would want to pay for old-looking game with simple mechanics? I was quite stunned by all the stuff what is going on under the hood, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3aieHjyNvw.
Linux has some selection of games, but some genres are under-represented and many genre leaders are not on Linux at all. For example Overwatch - there isn't many similar games at all, so you can't really find an alternative even on Windows. I did try Paladins for like 20 hours and Smite for many more (hundred at least). But Paladins seemed to be quite bland to me, majority of characters not really that interesting, some felt unfinished (probably b/c animations?) and their looks not matching, overall it felt quite rubber-bandy compared to OW (maybe an issue with EU servers?). Smite, well, only game mode I was interested in playing (arena?) was not supported by developers even though it was most popular one, so I left after some time (had some fun for free, can't complain).
To the security of games being afterthought, well, maybe, but if constructing special client and mainly server costs times more (if possible at all), then it is logical to make a game with checking main cheating tools rather than investing to development of new tech costing tons of money and in the end players not seeing anything for higher price of a game (which is purely hypothetical, since gamers are not willing to pay more, so publishers would have to cut it from their money). I think vast majority of people are severly underestimating how difficult is to build a fast multiplayer action game and what hoops have to jumped through for it to feel good = responsive, you can't trade game performance for "proper" security, because who would want to pay for old-looking game with simple mechanics? I was quite stunned by all the stuff what is going on under the hood, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3aieHjyNvw.
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