You can now easily run the Epic Store on Linux with Lutris, Epic suggests applying for a grant

Quoting: kneekoo

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI gave you a paragraph explaining how I feel there's a duty to be nice to people, as opposed to the lack of such a duty towards companies. Your response of

QuoteNot to speak too ill of normal fellow human beings? Wow, you must be popular with people who don't aim to please you. Forgive my sarcasm

Was basically accusing me of being nasty to people, precisely the opposite of my point, which was, to show the same confidence in my statements you do in yours, perfectly clear. [...] your misinterpretation led you to go ad hominem, which I haven't done with you.
It was an unpleasant thing to say. I would be happy if you retracted it. And doing so would be consistent with your repeated claims to niceness and constructiveness.

Have you re-read what I asked you to, to confirm that I didn't say that you (the people on this website) badmouthed Valve? Because sometimes I'm not specific enough and my words can be interpreted in various ways, but in that case I see no reason to believe that by "the Linux community" I meant this community specifically.

And I quoted you when I made that statement. Here are your words, in bold, to understand why I paraphrased (not attacked) you:

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI have some responsibility with normal fellow human beings to give them some benefit of doubts, to not speak too ill of them, to take into account their point of view and so forth. That responsibility does not extend to corporations and is seriously diminished when it comes to their executives while in an official capacity.

Your own words imply that you speak ill of people, just not too ill. How else can that be understood? Because if you don't speak ill of people, why would you even say "not too ill"?

The context is entities that act like dicks. When companies do it, I have no responsibility to give them the benefit of the doubt etc. With people, I do. But in your case, I'm running low on doubt. Really, how hard is this and why is it so incredibly important to you that when you badmouth me it shouldn't be allowed to count as badmouthing?
It seems to me you're operating a double standard; your own behaviour doesn't have to measure up to your admonishments. While lecturing on good conduct, you sneer at me, then talk down to me for pointing it out. Your own conduct doesn't become good just because your wording is glib.


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 25 April 2019 at 7:28 am UTC

Thank you lutris guys to give me the possibility to not install Epic Game Store client.

Mr Sweeney took away my ability to vote with my wallet by taking away the games he bought from the penguin, but now you gave it me back. And I choose to not support his anti consumer and anti pc gaming initiative.

Quoting: kneekoo

Quoting: scaineNo one is "shaming" Epic for not releasing the client on Linux. Where are you getting that from?

I put a link on shaming, to the forum post that got a lot of likes.

Your link isn't to a single comment - you can do that from the toolbar in the comment itself (one to the left of the "quote" button). You linked to a page of comments.

Regardless, I didn't see anything that qualified as shaming.

Honestly, I disagree with pretty much almost everything you've written on this topic. That happens, and it's a shame when we can't see eye to eye, or influence each other in any way, but there it is.

Quoting: scaineYour link isn't to a single comment - you can do that from the toolbar in the comment itself (one to the left of the "quote" button). You linked to a page of comments.

The link is to an actual comment, the one starting with "Well, this is absolutely something I was happy to leave on Windows, but on a technical level hats off to the clever folk who figured that out. Also shame on Epic Games. It's a bloody Electron app, which means 98% of the application is just HTML"

I wonder if kneekoo understands the word "shaming" used here more harsh than other people. They are having an electron up, which is portable by very nature, so "shame on you, Epic!" is nothing to harsh, I think.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyThe context is entities that act like dicks. When companies do it, I have no responsibility to give them the benefit of the doubt etc. With people, I do. But in your case, I'm running low on doubt. Really, how hard is this and why is it so incredibly important to you that when you badmouth me it shouldn't be allowed to count as badmouthing?
It seems to me you're operating a double standard; your own behaviour doesn't have to measure up to your admonishments. While lecturing on good conduct, you sneer at me, then talk down to me for pointing it out. Your own conduct doesn't become good just because your wording is glib.

When you make general statements, like how you speak ill of people and corporations, it helps if you put that in context, like you did just now, so people can't misunderstand that. That's why I clarified some of my original thoughts in later posts, and I asked you to do the same.

Quoting: EikeI wonder if kneekoo understands the word "shaming" used here more harsh than other people. They are having an electron up, which is portable by very nature, so "shame on you, Epic!" is nothing to harsh, I think.

"Shame on you, Epic!" is quite literal and the context of that post was EPIC not making a Linux version of the client which would be easy considering they used Electron. But if they're not ready to support the games on Linux, then making the client available for Linux makes no sense even if it's technically possible. So there's no need to shame them on that business decision, because that's not an anti-consumer practice like exclusives.

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: scaineYour link isn't to a single comment - you can do that from the toolbar in the comment itself (one to the left of the "quote" button). You linked to a page of comments.

The link is to an actual comment, the one starting with "Well...<snip>

Huh, well that doesn't work for me. Kneekoo's link is:

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/you-can-now-easily-run-the-epic-store-on-linux-with-lutris-epic-suggests-applying-for-a-grant.13964/page=2#r152746

But when I click on the "get link" button I get:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/you-can-now-easily-run-the-epic-store-on-linux-with-lutris-epic-suggests-applying-for-a-grant.13964/comment_id=152785

So, the reference is different, and the style is different.

And when I click on Kneekoo's link, I get taken to the top of the article, at page 2 of the comments.

No idea what's happening there.

Quoting: scaineAnd when I click on Kneekoo's link, I get taken to the top of the article, at page 2 of the comments.

No idea what's happening there.

I sometimes get strange scrolling behaviour, probably due to quotes folding afterwards or something like this. When you use his link, go to the URL box and press enter, maybe it will resolve properly?

Quoting: MalThank you lutris guys to give me the possibility to not install Epic Game Store client.

Mr Sweeney took away my ability to vote with my wallet by taking away the games he bought from the penguin, but now you gave it me back. And I choose to not support his anti consumer and anti pc gaming initiative.

A nice way to put it! The only downside is: voting with wallets means only "yes" votes will be counted. This way one of the most frequent arguments in favor of the Epic Shop (including exclusive deals) is: "I don't care!".

Quoting: EikeI sometimes get strange scrolling behaviour, probably due to quotes folding afterwards or something like this. When you use his link, go to the URL box and press enter, maybe it will resolve properly?

Nope - still just a generic page URL for me. I'm on Ubuntu 16.04, latest Chrome. Same behaviour on Kubuntu 18.10, latest Chrome.

I was curious, so I've just tried it on Firefox - it works. So this is a Chrome issue.

Huh, scratch that. I just tried Chrome incognito and it works there too. So it's something to do with my profile, or something related to an add-on I use that isn't switched on with incognito. Probably a greasemonkey script, although the only one I use disables those annoying pop ups that appear when your mouse leaves the browser window... I'm sure you know the ones. Even then, that script is hit or miss, so probably that.

Quoting: NeverthelessA nice way to put it! The only downside is: voting with wallets means only "yes" votes will be counted. This way one of the most frequent arguments in favor of the Epic Shop (including exclusive deals) is: "I don't care!".

I don't think so. CEOs do have an idea of the market size. Epic can't have precise numbers of how many people are boycotting them but they do have an idea of how much of the market they have penetrated with their exclusives. Remember when they were caught browsing in steam files and uploading the content? They don't sell your friend list to Chinese government but they do get an idea of the size and kind of people with one client or another or both of them and their network.

When people that refuse to install their client adds up they'll notice. And it's good they do. The sooner they realize we won't yield the sooner they'll stop being a cancer and adopt a model that is functional to the PC gaming industry. Valve is private company. I dunno what kind of cash reserves they have but assuming they have decent reserves they can fight an attrition war better than Epic. Only that for as long as this nonsense goes on there will be repercussions on the financing of their side projects like VR, linux, proton and so on. Especially since they are already dealing with the Artifact fiasco. And that is bad for all PC gaming since Epic is not compensating with its own PC focused initiatives and, as far as they let us know, they have no intention to ever compensate. For them PC is just one platform like another, they just started their world conquest quest from here because being open makes it more vulnerable to market manipulation. Their short and long term strategy is purely to pass bigger revenues to publishers by sacrificing gamers and with no strings to ensure that part of these revenues publishers get go to actual developers (actually recent news looks like Epic has an issue with its own developers). But PC gaming has a die hard number of informed trend setters and influencers. And there is and there will always be resistance.

Most gamers don't see it and stop at Sweeney proclaims of being the savior of the industry, but Epic is actually charging part of the costs of their attrition war on to them (when they do not absorb transaction costs and offer nearly 0 features that require some kind of cloud maintenance cost). Given how much money Epic has it's unlikely that Valve won't be forced to cut something itself in the medium long run. Which means that in the next years PC will lose competitivity to consoles and any other new player (Stadia and such). And I don't want it.

This is a commercial war for PC gaming. I simply want to do my little consumer part to make this madness stop as soon as possible. And I know at Epic they'll notice a little more now that Epic store can not be installed on linux.


Last edited by Mal on 26 April 2019 at 2:18 pm UTC

Quoting: Mal

Quoting: NeverthelessA nice way to put it! The only downside is: voting with wallets means only "yes" votes will be counted. This way one of the most frequent arguments in favor of the Epic Shop (including exclusive deals) is: "I don't care!".

I don't think so. CEOs do have an idea of the market size. Epic can't have precise numbers of how many people are boycotting them but they do have an idea of how much of the market they have penetrated with their exclusives. Remember when they were caught browsing in steam files and uploading the content? They don't sell your friend list to Chinese government but they do get an idea of the size and kind of people with one client or another or both of them and their network.

When people that refuse to install their client adds up they'll notice. And it's good they do. The sooner they realize we won't yield the sooner they'll stop being a cancer and adopt a model that is functional to the PC gaming industry. Valve is private company. I dunno what kind of cash reserves they have but assuming they have decent reserves they can fight an attrition war better than Epic. Only that for as long as this nonsense goes on there will be repercussions on the financing of their side projects like VR, linux, proton and so on. Especially since they are already dealing with the Artifact fiasco. And that is bad for all PC gaming since Epic is not compensating with its own PC focused initiatives and, as far as they let us know, they have no intention to ever compensate. For them PC is just one platform like another, they just started their world conquest quest from here because being open makes it more vulnerable to market manipulation. Their short and long term strategy is purely to pass bigger revenues to publishers by sacrificing gamers and with no strings to ensure that part of these revenues publishers get go to actual developers (actually recent news looks like Epic has an issue with its own developers). But PC gaming has a die hard number of informed trend setters and influencers. And there is and there will always be resistance.

Most gamers don't see it and stop at Sweeney proclaims of being the savior of the industry, but Epic is actually charging part of the costs of their attrition war on to them (when they do not absorb transaction costs and offer nearly 0 features that require some kind of cloud maintenance cost). Given how much money Epic has it's unlikely that Valve won't be forced to cut something itself in the medium long run. Which means that in the next years PC will lose competitivity to consoles and any other new player (Stadia and such). And I don't want it.

This is a commercial war for PC gaming. I simply want to do my little consumer part to make this madness stop as soon as possible. And I know at Epic they'll notice a little more now that Epic store can not be installed on linux.

I think you're doing the right thing of course! I'm just a bit frustrated to see so many people falling for trojan offers from time to time. It hurts themselves, and it hurts all of us, because it sets standards. Valve and all potential other shops simply might be forced to sell userdata too some day, when Epic succeeds to lure away developers with bigger revenues.
People rarely even know what their behavioural data is worth to the data miners, and what it's used for. They think money from personalized advertizing magically falls out of the sky and pays Google, Facebook, bonus systems like Payback in germany (I don't know what they are called in other countries), and the likes, but the only source of money for the whole economic system is the end consumer. So the price for all spying, datamining, advertizing, manipulation, free software (as in free beer) and services is paid by the consumer anyway, just invisibly. On top of that datamining gives them the means to manipulate us even more effective.
Linux gaming on Steam, GOG, Itch... for me is the chance to pay and play great games, with or without DRM, no further strings attached. I would really like to keep it that way! I gladly give my money to developers directly, but I won't pay someone to spy on me if I can prevent it!