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PayPalAs an unintentional side effect of Valve's latest sales event, the Steam Grand Prix, it seems a lot of users have begun cleaning out their Steam Wishlists.
Why? Well, it gives you the chance to win an item from your Steam Wishlist but only from the top three slots, it's not random. Valve's rules are pretty clear on how it all works but it still seems to have caused a lot of wishlist deletions. Removing games doesn't actually improve your chances, but likely will affect your future purchases of games you're no longer following as a result of it.
I don't think it's just that though, it's likely also a result of more people also now remembering that they've wishlisted a ton of games, some they're not likely to buy but either way it's not good news for smaller developers.
As an example of this, Raymond Doerr developer of Rise to Ruins (an awesome indie city-builder) shared this image on Twitter to show just how many are being removed:
You can obviously see how clear it is and that it started around the Summer Sale. They're not alone in this, tons of indie developers are seeing the exact same thing, my Twitter feed is absolutely full of developers talking about it over the last few days, some seem quite concerned by it. From what I've seen, it's quite normal to see a drop around these events but nothing like it is currently. Steam Wishlists can be one of the deciding factors on whether an upcoming game will see many sales and whether an already released game will continue to live on. When a lot of indie developers are already struggling, this is obviously not great.
Sounds like for many indie developers, the Steam sale hasn't been too kind to them with many seeing quite a drop compared to previous sales too. I spoke personally with David Stark, developer of Airships: Conquer the Skies, who said:
Looking at the stats for the first day of the sale of my game, Airships: Conquer the Skies, I noticed that for every copy sold, around three other people simply deleted the game from their wishlist. Clearly, some players are just taking the opportunity to tidy up their wishlists, but talking to other devs and players on Twitter, it seems that at least people are misunderstanding how the Grand Prix sale promotion works, and are deleting all but the most expensive games from their lists, in the hope of reaping the maximum reward. I really don't think this was Valve's intent, but it's unfortunate, especially as long-tail sales for games really rely on wishlists.
I also spoke with Tom Vian of SFB Games, developer of titles like Detective Grimoire and Haunt the House: Terrortown who allowed me to share their image too showing the same thing for their titles:
Certainly seems like something awry here.
Going further into it, J. Kyle Pittman, co-founder of Minor Key Games (Slayer Shock, Eldritch, Super Win The Game + more) also shared this image:
When I asked Pittman how that compared to previous years, keeping in mind they're another developer that's been through many years of sales, they said:
Previous summer sales have looked similar to the one from May. Some deletions but mostly purchases and additions. Last year’s holiday sale was about 50/50. This is the first time in history that deletions have exceeded purchases and additions by a wide margin.
Another who didn't want to be named, who I've followed for multiple years also said "I've never seen anything like it, we rely on Wishlists for so many reasons, it's a disaster". Plenty more like this, this one, also this one and so on. That's not many examples, sure, but keep in mind I follow thousands of developers (and getting permission to quote takes a long time in some cases) and not a single one has said anything good about what's happening. Every image I've seen, is showing the same issue—oh dear.
Another factor in all this, is that more people might possibly be heading over to the Epic Games Store. I know, I know, I've mentioned Epic Games and it's likely to cause a riot somewhere but stick with me a moment. Epic Games also only recently kicked off their own Mega Sale, so the timing of that likely hasn't helped things. Same with GOG and Humble Store, but Epic Games likely have a bigger pull than those two put together.
Tough times to be an indie game developer indeed. Being discovered on Steam seems like it's getting a lot tougher as time goes on, as thousands more are released on Steam each year, which may end up pushing out a lot of smaller developers. There's also been a ton of talk about Steam changing their algorithms, which has also reduced a lot of traffic to some developers.
Not only that, I've also seen numerous developers post about how Steam has been emailing wishlist sale notifications to a vastly smaller percentage of users than usual, in some cases around only 10% of emails have gone out compared to previous years.
Something to remember though, is that it's not Valve's job to market every game possible. Realistically, that's the job of the developer and publisher, Valve just provide the store and the tools to help a little along the way. However, when some of these tools start to work against them (even when unintentional) it's obviously not good.
Seems like developers are going to have to get a lot more creative somehow in pushing people towards their Steam pages. If any of it makes you think and you want to help, then perhaps next time you enjoy a game putting up a little review on Steam will help. Oh, and stop removing games from your wishlist when you don't need to.
Note: After publishing, Valve put out a post to clarify some elements of the game. They also clarified in that post, that you don't need to remove items. Along with this PSA on Twitter, it's clear Valve now knows it caused an issue.
Article was updated after publishing with more info.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
TheSHEEEP 27 Jun 2019
I don't think there is much that could be done about it.
Liam Dawe 27 Jun 2019
I think too much is probably being read into this.Not when every single developer I've spoken to, or seen talk about it in public, is showing that the problem started when the sale started and it's never happened like this before, not even close.
eldaking 27 Jun 2019
But regarding these events in particular: it seems like a really bad side effect of the event. There is the obvious "if we are gifting games should be something people would like" and the benign manipulation of "look at your wishlist, order it, use it". But if people are removing games, that is kind of bad for indies that don't appear as often to you so they might end up ignored.
Best case scenario, people were just reminded to organize their wishlists and the games removed were things they wouldn't be going to buy. Worst case scenario, they removed indie games they might otherwise buy to leave the more "valuable" AAA games to focus on prizes - or just because the event unwittingly calls attention to having a short wishlist with just the most wanted games.
EagleDelta 27 Jun 2019
I think too much is probably being read into this.Not when every single developer I've spoken to, or seen talk about it in public, is showing that the problem started when the sale started and it's never happened like this before, not even close.
But at the same time, correlation != causation. The simple fact is that people probably spend more time in the wishlist during sale time and that alone could be the cause of the increase in wishlist deletions. I recently removed a ton of games that I no longer had interest in from my wishlist. Had nothing to do with the sale, I just realized I had a lot of games I'll never get to even if I did buy them. I can't be the only one.
Schattenspiegel 27 Jun 2019
If they really want to have more exposure they should ask Valve to do the flashsales every few hours of the olden days again during they big sale events.
Since they stopped doing that you basically only scan the store once on day one for titles you would potentially like to purchase and leave somewhat bored to ponder over it for a few days, while back then you checked 2-3 times a day to see what's new and hot.
They also should ask for a fast way(one click) to search certain, freely definable prize ranges. That would get them way more exposure then the banner(and stream?! wtf?) cluttered front page.
Liam Dawe 27 Jun 2019
I touched on that in the article actually. Sales always see a small drop but never like this, the entire point of the article.I think too much is probably being read into this.Not when every single developer I've spoken to, or seen talk about it in public, is showing that the problem started when the sale started and it's never happened like this before, not even close.
But at the same time, correlation != causation. The simple fact is that people probably spend more time in the wishlist during sale time and that alone could be the cause of the increase in wishlist deletions. I recently removed a ton of games that I no longer had interest in from my wishlist. Had nothing to do with the sale, I just realized I had a lot of games I'll never get to even if I did buy them. I can't be the only one.
x_wing 27 Jun 2019
By the way (and just in case some valve brain is reading), next time they should give as price the chance to get a full (or partial) refund of one of the games you bought during the sale (of course, return the most expensive one, valve ;)). Also, they should keep giving events point by visiting the discovery queue (as they always did), that's what helps a lot the indies.
Last edited by x_wing on 27 Jun 2019 at 2:27 pm UTC
Ehvis 27 Jun 2019
Anyway, it being the top three was already a good solution of they actually made that very clear. Which they obviously haven't because I thought I read it properly and I still missed it.
Edit: On a practical note they seem to have butchered the team selection a bit. Looks like everybody (that is not me) is automatically selecting the top team.
Last edited by Ehvis on 27 Jun 2019 at 2:34 pm UTC
Dunc 27 Jun 2019
cprn 27 Jun 2019
edo 27 Jun 2019
Liam Dawe 27 Jun 2019
I'll just repeat myself since it's not sinking in..Maybe it is just some collective perception problem? People would be removing things from their wishlist they wouldn't be buying anyway, so the "lost" sale is not really lost, it would never happen. It's just the start of the Steam sales which started midweek, I think it's natural people are still not buying in bulk because the sales still has one week and a half to go -- and frankly, due to the daily sales and some games which only get a discount later, I think it is expected users wait a little to spend their money. It's too early to infer the trends!I think too much is probably being read into this.Not when every single developer I've spoken to, or seen talk about it in public, is showing that the problem started when the sale started and it's never happened like this before, not even close.
This has not happened with any other sale to this level. It's a result of the gamification of the wishlist system with people not quite understanding it.
Do a search for "steam wishlist" and things like that on Twitter and spot all the fires ;)
Comandante Ñoñardo 27 Jun 2019
The trading cards event of the previous Steam sales was much better. I added a lot of steam games to the wishlists of all my steam accounts because of that...
I am not participating in the new event since there is not trading cards.
WorMzy 27 Jun 2019
I'm still playing more games that are supported by the event (Stardew and Two Point), but I'm not expecting to get anything out of it at this point since I didn't join corgi.
Beamboom 27 Jun 2019
So with that in mind, for the first time ever I've deleted pretty much my entire wish-list this summer sales. And it has nothing to do with the Steam GP at all. :D
F.Ultra 27 Jun 2019
Well, if it's any consolation to indie devs reading GoL, my wishlist is a mess. :)
I'm even worse, I've never ever used the whishlist. When I'm in the mood for buying a game I simply go this site and see if GoL have covered anything recently that looks interesting.
RanceJustice 27 Jun 2019
Steam needs a massive overhaul of the Wishlist feature. At the moment I have Wishlist of no less than 230 games! Now, not all of these are games that I know I want badly, or that I want to have gifted to me - even the "ranked order" feature is hopelessly useless at such volume and the way I use the list. I wishlist titles for many reasons from general interest, to waiting for something like Linux support, to actually planning to buy, to waiting for discounts etc.
Steam needs to dramatically change the Wishlist system with a couple things in mind. First of all, to allow users to create MULTIPLE lists, named/flagged as they like. I'd easily split my list into 5+ categories if I could. Next, while I applaud that Steam users can flag their OSes of preference globally, they have to update the system. Last I checked, only those whole SOLELY choose "Linux/SteamOS" as their ONLY checked OS preference will "count" for developers being able to see how many "Linux people" have wishlisted a title for Linux or whatnot. Also anything dealing with heuristics, including top sales/popular/suggested/ etc.. will ONLY be shown for currently available Linux games. This is pretty much useless in my opinion. To the contrary, if a user checks multiple boxes (ie Windows + Linux) I'm not sure what happens; you "see" Windows titles shown in heuristics-related lists again, but apparently your Wishlists are flagged as "Windows people" perhaps? They need to update that feature and separate it out into "Show me and use metrics/heuristics for games with X, Y, or Z OS" versus "Have my OS preference COUNT for sales, wishlists etc... as X, or X AND Y OS". I'd love to say "Show me the standard bevy of Windows + Linux everything titles, but have all my purchases / wishlists / etc COUNT as Linux".
Regarding the sale itself I think its an overall good idea - I like that Steam comes up with a new mechanic for every major sale, while the underlying discounts are still there all the time; giveaways are always nice too. I think earning various rewards by playing games you own and/or are freely available can be a nice touch. For this particular sale I do think they made one mistake in the racing teams - yes, at least as of right now one team is way ahead. It was the one I joined on day 1, but I think one reason its way ahead is because of Valve's "failure to account for memes".
There are 5 "racing teams' named after animals - Hare (understandable name, F1 style car icon), Tortoise (understandable name, van style car icon ), Cockatiel (unusual name, racecar style car icon ), Pig (even more unusual name; offputting outside of Asia, semi-truck style car icon ) and finally Corgi ( Internet meme friendly dog breed perhaps second only to the Shiba Inu, futuristic race car ). Someone should have known that picking "Corgi" over something more generic like "Dog", and not including a "Cat" of any kind in the list means that a lot of people are going to pick it. Corgis are meme-able - they're the dog associated with the Queen of England, Ein from Cowboy Bebop, and there are multiple Corgi battlepets with names like Corgnelius in World of Warcraft. As I said, it could only be made worse if they called it "Shibe / Doge" instead! The other teams really aren't going to compete for member interest! We'll see how things develop as there are many days left in the sale of course, but I think they would have been better off with something like "Tortoise, Hare, Cheetah, Corgi, Unicorn" to get a wider spread of team interest.
Regarding the sale itself and indie games, this is at least for me a great time for indie titles. Games that are often not for sale via legit keysellers (ie greenmangaming, or Humble etc) may be on sale here, along with things like DLC. I buy a lot of indies and whatnot during major Steam sales and I'll often go to my huge 200+ Wishlist and sort it by Discount, checking out what discounts there are and weighing it against the normal price of the game/DLC, how often the game goes on sale, Linux support, and other factors.
Finally, I would urge the staff of GOL to try to avoid giving Epic Games any potential power, especially given it is unearned. I can't imagine them being more desirable than long standing stores like Humble or even GOG (I'm not a huge fan of GOG given their lack of real Linux support. The whole DRM-free thing is more or less a smokescreen in that the games that release on GOG, often also release on Steam - which truly supports Linux and has many other features - and have no more DRM there than they did on GOG!). I certainly hope indie developers will not give up on Steam - that is pretty much the only "platform" for which I buy games thanks to their Linux support and other ethical elements (be it sales by proxy or direct). Epic Store has a lot of money to throw around for their unscrupulous garbage and they ham-up the illusion of "visibility" to indie developers, but its just the illusion of a "small pond", one filled with toxic waste offset by continuous chemical dumping to make it appear blue and clear.
This is not to say Steam can't improve (the Wishlist issues I described above are one start), but I would not like to see developers start dealing with the ethically and technically flaming garbage platform, choosing short term ill-gotten gains for things like exclusivity and whatnot. Calling attention to them is fine, as it will help to light a fire under Steam to improve, but when it comes right down to it I don't want to have to worry about the Linux future of games or things like exclusivity because people start focusing on the Epic store or consoles etc.
Derheim 27 Jun 2019
Too many fish in the sea, really.
I don't think there is much that could be done about it.
I think the market will regulate itself, in the way of market crashes, it's just the the way it is.
How long will we have to wait to see another one? not sure, however I don't think we are too far away from the next one.
Micromegas 27 Jun 2019
pb 27 Jun 2019
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