Remember the SMACH Z handheld? It's apparently going to be at E3 this year

Quoting: EikeYeah, I understand, not in the bus, but still... IMHO, it's way too much money to play what you can play elsewhere as well. While many people say Zelda alone is worth the price of the Switch.

I don't think Smach Z will be the hit some people are hoping for. It's too expensive and as many of you hint at, the selling point is hard to get.

Personally, when smartphones became a thing, I was hoping for mini-computers. Instead what we got was severely limited, by comparison. Smach Z (and others) are a step in the right direction, IMHO

Quoting: TheRiddick

Quoting: DragunovMore rich people toys...Price is outrageous

yeah that's kinda what I was thinking, I mean you could get a switch for cheaper, aren't Nintendo allowing steam streaming on the switch soon via app?

Remember when Apple rejected the SteamLink app at first? Nintendo is presumably cross-financing the hardware with software sales, so they have even more reason to reject streaming support, unless it requires a pricey subscription.

I'd love it though. I'm currently holding out o buying new games, that are available on Switch, because I plan to buy one eventually and prefer playing in bed. A streaming feature would make it "instant buy" as it would allow me to bridge to playing games from my backlog and PC-only games (assuming controller support), or games where modding is important part of the experience.

Now, if only Nintendo truely arrived in the 21st century, by making cloud-saves a default feature for all games... I'd easily rebuy some games that sit unfinished on my PC to play them in bed or in the garden, but not if the save-games are tied to the hardware with no way to back them up.

Better yet, allow importing PC save-games to the Switch version of games, where technically possible. Sadly, it seems that Nintendo is concerned about such a feature being an attack vector for jailbreaks and playing illicit copies of games.

Quoting: ageres

Quoting: UltraAltesBrotWhy purchase an expensive new device when you already have a smartphone or tablet?

Say this to Nintendo.

The switch is pretty cheap actually at 300-330€, and comes with access to traditionally developed "full" games, rather than an ecosystem dominated by F2P games. While there are plenty of good F2P games, they are usually designed to be played in short sessions over a long time, as opposed to traditional single-player games, where "one hour" is a short session, and a sense of "finishing" the game is usually part of the design. As a consequence, the Switch targets a market orthogonal to typical mobile gaming.

Additionally it is backed by an established company, and games will be optimized for it – notabily including UI adjustments to support the small internal screen, presumably. Lacking this support, games that will run well on a Switch will likely fall behind quickly on the much more expensive SMACH. Never mind the implications of the Startup-character of the company in terms of trust (repairs, replacement, future models, ...).

It also will have to fight with the battery-life and performance implications of running a full desktop OS with traditional pre-mobile multitasking.


Last edited by Klaus on 5 June 2019 at 9:23 am UTC

Quoting: KlausThe switch is pretty cheap actually at 300-330€, and comes with access to traditionally developed "full" games

…which are overpriced as hell, especially indie games, and you have to re-buy them even if you've got them on Steam or elsewhere.

Quoting: KlausLacking this support, games that will run well on a Switch will likely fall behind quickly on the much more expensive SMACH.

Or they will not. Anyway, Smach is a computer, so you'll be able to tweak games to get better performance.
But do games run well on Switch? I've seen on Youtube how games look and perform there, and it's horrible. Ugly graphics, low resolution and bad framerate for your 60€. MK11 looks worse than the mobile version of MK.

Quoting: KlausIt also will have to fight with the battery-life and performance implications of running a full desktop OS with traditional pre-mobile multitasking.

But if that OS is Linux…


Last edited by ageres on 5 June 2019 at 10:52 am UTC

Quoting: ShmerlWhat exactly is late?

The market for small dedicated handheld gaming devices. That market died right after the PSP.

Quoting: ageres

Quoting: KlausThe switch is pretty cheap actually at 300-330€, and comes with access to traditionally developed "full" games

…which are overpriced as hell, especially indie games, and you have to re-buy them even if you've got them on Steam or elsewhere.

Matter of priorities really. For me "playing it comfortably" easily trumps "has a 75% steam discount", especially since I hardly even have the time to play through games quickly enough for the price difference to have a relevant effect on my budget. All those discounts have given me... is a large backlog.

Though I'll gladly admit, that I'd prefer locally streaming my already-owned games over rebuying, if it exceeds the 20€ mark.

Quoting: ageres

Quoting: KlausLacking this support, games that will run well on a Switch will likely fall behind quickly on the much more expensive SMACH.

Or they will not. Anyway, Smach is a computer, so you'll be able to tweak games to get better performance.

I'd rather pay more than have to spend time tweaking performance... Matter of subjective priorities again.

Quoting: ageres

Quoting: KlausIt also will have to fight with the battery-life and performance implications of running a full desktop OS with traditional pre-mobile multitasking.

But if that OS is Linux…

It's not really a Windows-specific issue though, but rather in the difference between dedicated mobile and desktop operating systems, and how it affects how their third-party software is written.

The idea is great, the price is too high and the timing is almost perfect.

Idea: For a long time PC users have wanted to play like console users. On the go, too. Without having to worry about internet connection quality in many cases, like for streaming.

Price: Autracious. If they really want to gain some traction with the device at least a reduction of £200 must happen. It is true that technologically is supposed to be better than Switch, which partly is also being fund with software sales. Arguably, Smach Z has the same value of a laptop with similar characteristics plus the benefits of the handheld mode but I don't see many potential customers with that comparison in mind.

Timing: There are several technologies, companies and services out there to have PC games played on the go. From normal laptops to Stadia, with phone ports and streaming in the middle of it. However, all of them are at the base different from what Smach Z offers. Normal laptops are too big and require a controller, phone streaming require a very good connection -aside of lag I also experienced problems with control recognition and issues with GOG games on SteamLink- and Stadia is new, with many questions still to be solved; Price and ownership being the biggest doubts. So, as gaming handheld PC, and with ALL your library already available once purchased, is the only device out there. Perhaps the GPD could be consider its competitor though the latter is still more focused as handheld laptop rather than a gaming PC. On the other hand, the development has been troublesome, with many accusations of fraud and there were several delays too, which probably made the idea lose momentum.

With those points above, I still think the price is the most important here. Ideas and timing are important but the wrong price tag can bring the former down forever, losing the opportunity.

Personally, I hope the device turns to be exceptional and successful enough to bring price down a bit or, at least, create interest in other companies to see more competition. I'd like the thought of owning one, to be honest.

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: ShmerlWhat exactly is late?

The market for small dedicated handheld gaming devices. That market died right after the PSP.

20 million of Nintendo Switch owners don't agree with that statement.

Quoting: Arehandoro

Quoting: BeamboomThe market for small dedicated handheld gaming devices. That market died right after the PSP.

20 million of Nintendo Switch owners don't agree with that statement.

Well, there are some people not using Switch outside their homes...

Interesting device, for my taste way too pricey. For a while I was thinking about GDWin (or how it was called), but IIRC it didn't have official Linux support, so I stopped following it. I am saving for Index currently and since I don't go out much, Index will have much better value for me.

Quoting: Arehandoro...Switch, which partly is also being fund with software sales

I don't believe this is true:

QuoteNintendo CEO says company won't make loss by selling it; but also listening to what consumers expect from us when setting price.

source: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/10/nintendo_switch_wont_be_sold_at_a_loss_two_million_units_to_ship_in_time_for_march

I am also pretty sure they said that even with some planned discount (Christmas?) they still won't be losing money on the device.

The Nintendo Switch has pretty thoroughly scratched my itch for a device like this, but I'm still keeping my eye on this thing.

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Arehandoro

Quoting: BeamboomThe market for small dedicated handheld gaming devices. That market died right after the PSP.

20 million of Nintendo Switch owners don't agree with that statement.

Well, there are some people not using Switch outside their homes...

Handhelds are not exclusively about "on the go" use though. Using the detached Switch in bed or on a sofa, while the big screen is used for TV by someone else, ... The handheld form factor, combined with support for main-stream "stationary" games, opens up interesting possibilties also within a home. The same (albeit without explicit developer support for the form factor and with a higher price point) applies for this devicce I guess.


Last edited by Klaus on 5 June 2019 at 3:22 pm UTC

Quoting: ArehandoroIdea: For a long time PC users have wanted to play like console users.

In which universe, please? And what is "like console users" :D ?

People who want to play on a console, they have a console.
People who want to plan on a PC, they have a PC.
People who want both, well, those with money have both, and the others are obviously not the target audience ;)

Quoting: ageresBut do games run well on Switch? I've seen on Youtube how games look and perform there, and it's horrible. Ugly graphics, low resolution and bad framerate for your 60€. MK11 looks worse than the mobile version of MK.

Most games run very well on the Switch and look great whether you're playing handheld or docked to your large screen television. Bad ports tend to the be exception rather than rule.

Quoting: Mountain ManThe Nintendo Switch has pretty thoroughly scratched my itch for a device like this, but I'm still keeping my eye on this thing.

Too much DRM, no Linux, and Nintendo of all things. Not my kind of itch :) Smach Z is interesting, but expensive. Though such price is probably reasonable, those components aren't cheap. Nintendo's SoC from Nvidia is way underpowered in comparison.


Last edited by Shmerl on 5 June 2019 at 4:13 pm UTC

Quoting: ShmerlNintendo's SoC from Nvidia is way underpowered in comparison.

The nominal power may be lower, but don't forget to account for device-specific optimization and specialized OS, that increase the actual performance. PC-versions in particular, sadly often target top-end machines first. I've felt the pain sufficiently, when playing Nier Automata on a then 3-year old Thinkpad Edge – After installing the fan-made "FAR" patch, I was able to play it at "impressive" 640x400, with almost stable 25 fps... (Note: The low resolution actually looked pretty good, almost like intentional pixel-art. The only real improvement on newer hardware was gained by having fluent 60fps choreography.)

If at the time the Switch had been available, but somewhat aged, the developer would likely have tried to produce a separate, more optimized version. No such support will be given to niche devices. Not even "laptop gamers" that can't just slot in a new graphics card are really being accounted for, and that should be a reasonably big market by comparison.

Quoting: Klausbut don't forget to account for device-specific optimization and specialized OS, that increase the actual performance.

Most of the time there is no point. Trying to beat optimized compiler for the GPU and CPU is hard, and would increase the cost of such development exponentially. I.e. normally, your CPU and GPU targeted compilers should take care of that.

Plugging into lower level (like using assembly directly) can be reasonable for complex cases, like for example video encoders and decoders. Assembly is used there to benefit from hardware specific features that general purpose compilers don't address. But such development is costly as above. That's why it's better not to use underpowered hardware for games to begin with.

Reasonable CPU and GPU will handle general purpose compiler generated code fine, including in handhelds.


Last edited by Shmerl on 5 June 2019 at 4:46 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: ArehandoroIdea: For a long time PC users have wanted to play like console users.

In which universe, please? And what is "like console users" :D ?

People who want to play on a console, they have a console.
People who want to plan on a PC, they have a PC.
People who want both, well, those with money have both, and the others are obviously not the target audience ;)

In my universe. I, and most of my friends, always wanted to play our PC games on the go. Or in the bed like some people have mentioned already.

Quoting: monnefInteresting device, for my taste way too pricey. For a while I was thinking about GDWin (or how it was called), but IIRC it didn't have official Linux support, so I stopped following it. I am saving for Index currently and since I don't go out much, Index will have much better value for me.

Quoting: Arehandoro...Switch, which partly is also being fund with software sales

I don't believe this is true:

QuoteNintendo CEO says company won't make loss by selling it; but also listening to what consumers expect from us when setting price.

source: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/10/nintendo_switch_wont_be_sold_at_a_loss_two_million_units_to_ship_in_time_for_march

I am also pretty sure they said that even with some planned discount (Christmas?) they still won't be losing money on the device.

Apologies, that was some poor wording on my side. What I meant is not that they are selling the console on a loss, but that their main revenue are the games. Something that the Smach Z can't do.

For a PC I think the price is what it is: you buy a PC. The price is on par with the GPD WIN2 (or it was for me), but with a better controller,a better GPU, a better CPU, a better heatsink, and hopefully better batteries than anything from GPD.
The PC is primarily made in Europe. I assume the PCB's and shells are printed/molded in China, and that assembly, and pick and place and soldering is done in Spain.
The cpu speed of the Smach Z is probably comparable to my Galaxy Note 9, except that my Galaxy Note 9 doesn't want to run intel architecture, nor does it have any decent linux environment, even in dextop linux.
The GPU is probably way better than an ARM mali, especially since the drivers are open source.
Being open source also means in software it lasts for the next 10 years.
So yeah, I got a good feeling about my Smach Z. In the mean time I am waiting for months to get replacement batteries for my WIN2, and waiting for the cooling mod upgrade kit, that should not have been necessary in the first place.
Let's hope the Smach Z doesn't need new batteries in less than 6 months and when it does, let's hope we can replace them with soldering some 18650's. And let's also hope the heatsink doesn't need a mod.
And yes, the platform cannot be truly open, because that's never the case with intel architecture.