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PayPalValve have put out a news post to highlight some of the top games put onto Steam in May and it's another reminder of why Steam Play is needed.
In this blog post they start by listing 20 games that had the top revenue earned in the first two weeks following their release. Without looking, take a guess at the number of games in that list that actually support Linux.
Did you take a guess? The answer is a rather sobering two: Rise of Industry and Total War: THREE KINGDOMS. What happens to that number if we include those that can be run with Steam Play, with a "Platinum" rating from user reports on ProtonDB? That brings it right up to nine, which is far more impressive. It would be even higher, if Easy Anti-Cheat and BattlEye worked with Steam Play and since both said they're working on it (Sources: EAC - BattlEye), things can only get better.
They also went over the top five free games, measured by peak player count within the first two weeks following release: Conqueror's Blade, Splitgate: Arena Warfare, Minion Masters, Eden Rising and Never Split the Party. Of those, only one supports Linux which is Never Split the Party. If we take "Platinum" Steam Play games again, that only rises to two.
Note: The top free games list has two entries that also appear in the top revenue list.
Without popular games, Linux gaming won't grow to a point where it will be noticeable. Once again, this is a big reason why Steam Play is going to help in the long run. First we get games, then we get players, then we hopefully get developers wanting control with their own supported Linux builds.
What's interesting though, is this only takes into account the first two weeks in both cases. Taking a look myself a bit closer, out of the top 20 games most played on Steam right now (players online) only one of those games Valve listed in the blog post actually make it at all, which is Total War: THREE KINGDOMS and that does support Linux. Going even further, out of the top 100 games on Steam for player count, from Valve's list, only currently Total War: THREE KINGDOMS shows up.
As a quick additional and interesting measure for June: Looking at the top 20 by player count right now, how many in total support Linux? A much healthier 10, so half which isn't so bad. Stretching it out even more, from the top 100 by player count, 43 of them support Linux.
So while we don't get the "latest and greatest" games, keep in mind that we do have a lot of games that stay popular supported on Linux, so there's at least a silver lining of sorts there.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
QuoteWithout popular games, Linux gaming won't grow to a point where it will be noticeable. Once again, this is a big reason why Steam Play is going to help in the long run. First we get games, then we get players, then we hopefully get developers wanting control with their own supported Linux builds.
Thank you, these are exactly my thoughts on how to break the chicken and egg issue we have with our tiny market share. And unfortunately I don't see much alternatives.
Last edited by jens on 28 June 2019 at 3:42 pm UTC
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Sir_Diealot Jun 28, 2019
Or there are fewer games for Linux released now that SteamPlay is around. Who can say with certainty? Historical data and statistics probably can. Who is going to dig in?
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Quoting: Sir_DiealotOr there are fewer games for Linux released now that SteamPlay is around. Who can say with certainty? Historical data and statistics probably can. Who is going to dig in?Well, out of the developers in that Valve post, 4/20 previously did a Linux game. Goes up to 5 if you count Avalanche Studios, with Mad Max ported externally by Feral.
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Anders1232 Jun 28, 2019
Even with steam play, I still with the "no tux no buck" rule, yeah I use steam play to play windows game that I bought before going all in GNU/Linux, but I still don't buy games that doesn't game a native version.
7 Likes, Who?
Quoting: GuestQuoting: GuestQuoting: GuestI've said it before and I will say it again, "no tux no bucks" does more harm than good and this shows why
No Tux No Bux is exactly what we need more of so that we get more Linux support. We want to be Linux gamers and help the Linux support ecosystem, not Windows gamers helping the Windows support ecosystem.
The cold hard truth is that devs will not support linux until the market grows. You think they support Windows because they like Windows? Nope, they support it because that is where the users are. Devs won't develop for linux because there are not enough users, users will not move to linux because that is not where the games they want to play are. Emulation and compatibility layers were always the best hope for linux gaming
To be fair, with Steam Play Linux gets visibility because a Steam Play purchase counts as Linux. This is not the case with other ways of playing non-Linux games on Linux.
Knowing that developers and publishers know that I spend my money for Linux is quite important for me.
Last edited by jens on 28 June 2019 at 4:16 pm UTC
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Quoting: Sir_DiealotOr there are fewer games for Linux released now that SteamPlay is around. Who can say with certainty? Historical data and statistics probably can. Who is going to dig in?Still seems too early for statistics to draw meaningful conclusions for something so vague and far-reaching. Game development takes years and most/many devs will need to see the effects of Proton before they start changing their behaviour based on it. In my opinion.
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just take platinum is wrong
rage 2 had a lot of borked at the beginning, but after a few hours valve fixed it and now it would be platinum
layers of fear 2 has silver, but the only thing you need to do is "-onethread" in launch options and videos dont work
rage 2 had a lot of borked at the beginning, but after a few hours valve fixed it and now it would be platinum
layers of fear 2 has silver, but the only thing you need to do is "-onethread" in launch options and videos dont work
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Quoting: GuestNo, the cold hard truth is supply and demand, which means Linux support depends on gamers demanding it...
Your are correct that demand and supply are the rules, but please realize that there is nearly no demand for Linux games due to nearly nobody uses Linux on the Desktop compared to other Desktop OS's. You need the users first to built up demand.
Last edited by jens on 28 June 2019 at 4:30 pm UTC
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Quoting: GuestQuoting: jensQuoting: GuestQuoting: GuestQuoting: GuestI've said it before and I will say it again, "no tux no bucks" does more harm than good and this shows why
No Tux No Bux is exactly what we need more of so that we get more Linux support. We want to be Linux gamers and help the Linux support ecosystem, not Windows gamers helping the Windows support ecosystem.
The cold hard truth is that devs will not support linux until the market grows. You think they support Windows because they like Windows? Nope, they support it because that is where the users are. Devs won't develop for linux because there are not enough users, users will not move to linux because that is not where the games they want to play are. Emulation and compatibility layers were always the best hope for linux gaming
To be fair, with Steam Play Linux gets visibility because a Steam Play purchase counts as Linux. This is not the case with other ways of playing non-Linux games on Linux.
Knowing that developers and publishers know that I spend my money for Linux is quite important for me.
The fact that Steam Play sales do count as linux sales is why I count Steam Play under the overall banner of "linux gaming" or, since it is where we are, "gaming on linux"
Yes, same thoughts here.
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Quoting: mylkajust take platinum is wrong"Wrong" being simply your opinion, I chose to use Platinum as the safest possible bet for statistical purposes only.
rage 2 had a lot of borked at the beginning, but after a few hours valve fixed it and now it would be platinum
layers of fear 2 has silver, but the only thing you need to do is "-onethread" in launch options and videos dont work
Oh, "and videos dont work" - yeah, that's not exactly the experience people are after is it. If something doesn't work, it's another nail in the coffin for people sticking around. Think it through a little.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 28 June 2019 at 6:02 pm UTC
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Quoting: GuestInstead, the correct message to send is we will not send you money until you support us like every other gamer gets to enjoy. We demand Linux support. That's how you get more Linux support.Hate to break it to you so directly, but that is wishful thinking without any base in reality.
Uhhh, about 1% of gamers demand Linux support. Yes, that will sure convince developers. As a 1% group demanding anything has always been very successful, I'm sure.
Seriously, it convinces barely anyone even here and we're all linux gamers ;)
No, Linux gamers will be ignored by most developers without a personal interest in the platform itself - until there are enough linux gamers to actually listen to them, to make the effort viable.
And that number can only be increased by growing game support. Which - since a larger percentage of native ports won't happen without a larger target audience first - can only be provided by Wine/etc.
Though, of course, the increased support of Linux by engines naturally also helps here, as it lowers the perceived barrier of having to maintain another platform.
Obviously, preferably buying games with Linux support has a positive influence, as has (nicely!) asking for future Linux support of game X. But beyond that, buying a Windows-only game on Linux and playing it there will show a developer that there's an audience here which has the one thing any developer desires most: $$$.
Which might convince a developer to give the platform a try with a proper release. Or not.
But at least it is a chance, in contrast to a handful of people screeching "No tux no bux!" in their ear, which only leads to the "ignore those Linux freaks"-reaction you can regularly see wherever the topic comes up.
Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 28 June 2019 at 4:49 pm UTC
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Quoting: GuestInstead, the correct message to send is we will not send you money until you support us like every other gamer gets to enjoy. We demand Linux support. That's how you get more Linux support.In "supply and demand", the "demand" doesn't stand for "users sending demands". It stands for the "quantity demanded", which in this context is most closely associated with "market size".
I agree that (eventually) Linux gamers should prefer Linux native games, but I don't think we're at a point where it matters yet. Proton, if anything, might be helping that (or at least not making it worse) by increasing Linux's gamers market size and (in the future, potentially) increasing their demand power. IMO, if nothing else, it's not making things worse.
Last edited by GermainZ on 28 June 2019 at 5:20 pm UTC
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Avehicle7887 Jun 28, 2019
The situation with Wine has always been 2 sided, it is both beneficial and damaging to Linux, which in many cases has been the former. While Steam Play/Wine helps users switch to Linux without sacrificing their favorite games, meanwhile from the devs end, they get to piggyback and profit from a platform they don't support.
In all fairness, I can sympathize with small companies where they lack the resources or the experience for Linux and Wine becomes the better than nothing solution. The large companies on the other hand, they have the funds but don't want to invest in Linux and id Software is a prime example of this.
Last edited by Avehicle7887 on 28 June 2019 at 5:08 pm UTC
In all fairness, I can sympathize with small companies where they lack the resources or the experience for Linux and Wine becomes the better than nothing solution. The large companies on the other hand, they have the funds but don't want to invest in Linux and id Software is a prime example of this.
Last edited by Avehicle7887 on 28 June 2019 at 5:08 pm UTC
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Quoting: GuestIt's been almost a year since Proton came out (August 2018).
Where is this fabled growth in market share? Did we even reach 1% of Steam users?
Well, it certainly wasn't growing before Proton, and the AAA ports that had been a feature of the Steam Machine days had long since dried up (discounting Aspyr and Feral of course).
We're holding steady over the last few months, and the lack of increase can be explained by reading this article.
Why would vast numbers of Windows users switch when only a tiny fraction of new games work OOTB?
That's why improvements in Wine/Proton/EAC compatibility are so important. Once gaming on Linux isn't as much of a sacrifice, there'll be less barrier to switching for those who'd rather be on Linux but for their games.
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Quoting: GuestThats not how economics works. Why would any business create a product for a market that does not exist or is irrelevant in terms of the size of that market? Businesses always look at the size of the market and how much they could possibly get in sales vs the cost of servicing that market. The truth is for many game devs, the outgoings vs projected revenue isn't worth it. We have to show them that the market exists. The only metrics that really matter are sales metrics
Imagine you and a small group of people want chairs. All that's produced is tables. Then half of the group starts going to the retailer, buying tables, but tell everybody "I will use it as a chair! A chair, understand!"
What would be my reaction as a table manufacturer?
I'd
It's no incentive at all for me to produce chairs when I know people will still buy my stuff if I wont - quite the opposite.
What they are showing is not a market for chairs - it's a market for "whatever four-legged you make".
I understand that you're saying that less than a percent is not incentive enough to get
Last edited by Eike on 28 June 2019 at 5:22 pm UTC
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This is going in circles. Kind of like Linux gaming before Proton :P
1. Conflating two meanings of the word "demand" isn't helping anyone.
2. Yes, it's clear that if publishers can get money from Linux gamers without supporting Linux, they will do so.
3. It's also obvious and has been shown that the current number of Linux gamers doesn't matter to most publishers. They don't really care either way if we don't buy their games. Crying about it gets us nowhere.
4. We're not going to break out of that paradigm without a larger userbase. Proton can help grow our userbase by removing barriers to adoption, i.e. making Linux more attractive as an OS for gamers who are on the fence.
5. Once we have bigger numbers, maybe we can start mattering to publishers and convince them to make the effort. Or maybe our own compatibility efforts will have gotten so good that it won't really matter anymore in most cases but publishers will pay attention.
I think there's a middle road we can take as advocates here. First, assuming a limited gaming budget, I do prefer to prioritize games that have actual Linux support. Put my money where my mouth is. But also, what we can do to take advantage from Proton is incite developers to support us through Proton. Everyone likes to take the path of least effort and make more money. If a developer can't be bothered to port to Linux but can be shown that a few fixes to enable Proton would generate enough sales to be profitable, that's a step in the right direction for us.
We're dealing with proprietary software here anyway. Whether it's native or not makes little difference as long as it's properly supported. If a dev wants to support a compatibility layer rather than a full port, I say go for it. As long as we have a promise of support, we're not so much of an afterthought anymore. And then if our numbers continue to grow, there will be incentive to make sure our experience is on par with other platforms, and if that implies an actual port or changing middleware, we'll be more likely to get it.
1. Conflating two meanings of the word "demand" isn't helping anyone.
2. Yes, it's clear that if publishers can get money from Linux gamers without supporting Linux, they will do so.
3. It's also obvious and has been shown that the current number of Linux gamers doesn't matter to most publishers. They don't really care either way if we don't buy their games. Crying about it gets us nowhere.
4. We're not going to break out of that paradigm without a larger userbase. Proton can help grow our userbase by removing barriers to adoption, i.e. making Linux more attractive as an OS for gamers who are on the fence.
5. Once we have bigger numbers, maybe we can start mattering to publishers and convince them to make the effort. Or maybe our own compatibility efforts will have gotten so good that it won't really matter anymore in most cases but publishers will pay attention.
I think there's a middle road we can take as advocates here. First, assuming a limited gaming budget, I do prefer to prioritize games that have actual Linux support. Put my money where my mouth is. But also, what we can do to take advantage from Proton is incite developers to support us through Proton. Everyone likes to take the path of least effort and make more money. If a developer can't be bothered to port to Linux but can be shown that a few fixes to enable Proton would generate enough sales to be profitable, that's a step in the right direction for us.
We're dealing with proprietary software here anyway. Whether it's native or not makes little difference as long as it's properly supported. If a dev wants to support a compatibility layer rather than a full port, I say go for it. As long as we have a promise of support, we're not so much of an afterthought anymore. And then if our numbers continue to grow, there will be incentive to make sure our experience is on par with other platforms, and if that implies an actual port or changing middleware, we'll be more likely to get it.
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I agree more or less with Swiftpaw.
Proton and wine in general is good to play games you already have that only have a Windows version but no Linux version.
But the demand for Linux games is shown by us buying and playing games on Linux, and if we want support then we should buy games that support Linux.
If a developer/publisher states that they officially support Proton, similar to that we also have seen wine wrapped games in the past, then I would maybe buy the game if I also am interested in it.
But buying Windows games with Steam on proton and then playing it without support is questionable. There have been numerous example of games that work for a while and then suddenly not any more. Most of the times because of anticheats.
So I will not buy any new game that does not have a Linux version, sometimes I make an exception of old games that work well in wine/proton or that have a open source engine reimplementation. So I am not 100% no Tux no bux. But I have mainly bought Linux games for over 5 years now, getting some windows games due to bundles or as giveaways.
I am a big fan of Dirt Rally, and have not bought Dirt Rally 2 yet since I still hope that there will be a Feral port, but who knows if that ever will come. For now I still enjoy Dirt Rally, and also Dirt 4 but its different and I like Dirt Rally more.
Sooner or later I will get Dirt Rally 2, but if its the windows version then first after a year or more and on a steap discount.
Regarding the market demand try to see it as this:
We are approximately 1 million Linux Steam users (I do not have en exact number but these where put out previously based on the percentage and overall Steam users reported by Valve.)
Just to have example number lets say that each user buys for 20€ a year on Steam, some buy for a lot more, but there are also people that only play free to play games.
That would be a market value of 20 million €
Lets say we have got 200k more users due to proton and that is good, but proton probably also has an effect on users already gaming on Linux. So now Linux users spend 10€ for Linux games (games with Linux supported on the store) and 10€ for Windows games. So Windows sales will be reported as Linux sales, but overall the market value for Linux supported games will then be 12 million € so a big drop. (I have no idea how much an average Linux gamer spends, so those numbers are made up, I myself spend a lot more.)
This is why we fear that Proton will lower demand for Linux games. Getting some more numbers will help to understand where we stand.
Proton and wine in general is good to play games you already have that only have a Windows version but no Linux version.
But the demand for Linux games is shown by us buying and playing games on Linux, and if we want support then we should buy games that support Linux.
If a developer/publisher states that they officially support Proton, similar to that we also have seen wine wrapped games in the past, then I would maybe buy the game if I also am interested in it.
But buying Windows games with Steam on proton and then playing it without support is questionable. There have been numerous example of games that work for a while and then suddenly not any more. Most of the times because of anticheats.
So I will not buy any new game that does not have a Linux version, sometimes I make an exception of old games that work well in wine/proton or that have a open source engine reimplementation. So I am not 100% no Tux no bux. But I have mainly bought Linux games for over 5 years now, getting some windows games due to bundles or as giveaways.
I am a big fan of Dirt Rally, and have not bought Dirt Rally 2 yet since I still hope that there will be a Feral port, but who knows if that ever will come. For now I still enjoy Dirt Rally, and also Dirt 4 but its different and I like Dirt Rally more.
Sooner or later I will get Dirt Rally 2, but if its the windows version then first after a year or more and on a steap discount.
Regarding the market demand try to see it as this:
We are approximately 1 million Linux Steam users (I do not have en exact number but these where put out previously based on the percentage and overall Steam users reported by Valve.)
Just to have example number lets say that each user buys for 20€ a year on Steam, some buy for a lot more, but there are also people that only play free to play games.
That would be a market value of 20 million €
Lets say we have got 200k more users due to proton and that is good, but proton probably also has an effect on users already gaming on Linux. So now Linux users spend 10€ for Linux games (games with Linux supported on the store) and 10€ for Windows games. So Windows sales will be reported as Linux sales, but overall the market value for Linux supported games will then be 12 million € so a big drop. (I have no idea how much an average Linux gamer spends, so those numbers are made up, I myself spend a lot more.)
This is why we fear that Proton will lower demand for Linux games. Getting some more numbers will help to understand where we stand.
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Quoting: Sir_DiealotOr there are fewer games for Linux released now that SteamPlay is around. Who can say with certainty? Historical data and statistics probably can. Who is going to dig in?
I've been repeating this mantra for 26 years now. What good it has done. I've missed out on a lot and I've come to the conclusion that it will not work for Linux users until the % of users is high enough.
Right now, Linux users are no where near high enough to make anyone care and anything that helps bring people over to Linux is a good idea.
Last edited by KohlyKohl on 28 June 2019 at 5:51 pm UTC
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Quoting: SalvatosThis is going in circles. Kind of like Linux gaming before Proton :P
Snip ---
We're dealing with proprietary software here anyway. Whether it's native or not makes little difference as long as it's properly supported. If a dev wants to support a compatibility layer rather than a full port, I say go for it. As long as we have a promise of support, we're not so much of an afterthought anymore. And then if our numbers continue to grow, there will be incentive to make sure our experience is on par with other platforms, and if that implies an actual port or changing middleware, we'll be more likely to get it.
Is there actually any game where the developer/publisher have said they will support Proton? I have not read about that, but seen some examples of Developers saying that Linux users just should use Proton since other users reported it works well.
I do not consider that support, but if they actually say they will test any patches under Proton to make sure it still works then I would consider it as support.
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Quoting: GuestIt's been almost a year since Proton came out (August 2018).A few things to note, Proton has been "out" for nearly a year, but it's still very much hidden on Steam. Unless you're going looking for it, you don't really know it exists. It still has a lot of work ahead of it right now, it's early days. If anyone seriously expected a shift in behaviour in less than a year, they're not being realistic in any way.
Where is this fabled growth in market share? Did we even reach 1% of Steam users?
The only thing Proton is doing is strengthening the position of Direct X as the only viable APIs in PC games development, no need for SDL, Vulkan and so on... there is Proton after all!
As for your other bits, well, Vulkan is needed for a big part of Proton remember, so that makes no sense. SDL is also used a lot outside of Linux FYI.
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