Steam's top releases of May show why Steam Play is needed for Linux

Quoting: GuestI've said it before and I will say it again, "no tux no bucks" does more harm than good and this shows why

Define, "no tux"...

In my case, it's any sort of semi-official or official support of the title ON Linux that works nearly as well, as well, or BETTER on Linux.

Proton counts.
WINE counts if it's the vendor ensuring it.
Other "Emulation" solutions as well.

I'm expecting to ship under that criteria as NATIVE support for several personal and business reasons. In fact, Linux is planned to be the primary dev environment, may even be plugged as plays best on, and will be an AA or AAA title with the current plan- again...this is for personal and business reasons. >:-D

Not all will do this. Obviously.

I may/may not buy something if it's not a Platinum item on WINE/Proton without an official nod/help from the publisher and/or studio, though. I don't waste my time or dollars on things that they're not caring about me and I have to run it in a shim/emulation layer and not get support for it except by the community. But it's come time to quit the burning stupidity people have about whether it's "native" or not. If it's supported, it's Tux. Period.

Quoting: ArtenYou need compare vulkan with DirectX 12. Game devs are relatively conservative and development of a game can be work for years...
https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DirectX_12_games

You can cleanly abstract away most of DX11/12 on top of Vulkan as Proton implies and shows (DXVK...). So, no, it's more of a delay in that DX12 was available and Vulkan wasn't until last year. You'll want Proton for the titles where the studio or publisher isn't planned to make a Linux or OSX version of their title and it cleanly runs their title. Which is why I made the remark I did earlier...

(To all...)

Many of the titles are moving from DX12 to a Vulkan backend. I expect a cut of code from a major player eventually for just that reason.

If you want to target PS4/PS5, you'll need...Vulkan. You want to target OSX, you'll need a Metal renderer...or write to Vulkan and let MetalVK abstract away. You want to target Windows, you can target DX12 or you can target Vulkan, with the latter actually being a bit cleaner going forward (Hm...something there about that, no?). You want to have a lower-end title run on Android? Vulkan. There's a lot more going for it as time progresses.

Proton's there for making it transition and to allow more than just Windows to have the, "FUN".

Quoting: Sir_DiealotOr there are fewer games for Linux released now that SteamPlay is around. Who can say with certainty? Historical data and statistics probably can. Who is going to dig in?

It will be both! But that's irrelevant! In my opinion the only relevant questions are:

1. Are there more games playable on Linux with or without Proton?
2. Are there a majority of games that got no native Linux version because of Proton, and that do (and will) not run with Proton?
3. Is the percentage of new released games running on Linux bigger now or before proton?
4. Is and will the quality and/or performance of Proton games be lower than that of native games?

Any other consideration has more to do with preferences than with the number of playable titles.


Last edited by Nevertheless on 28 June 2019 at 11:44 pm UTC

Tags: [Opinion piece]

I think in the case that a title has official support for Steam Play and it works well, then it is "native" enough for me. I don't really care if there is a wrapper running, or if there is a runtime supplied that runs the game. There are tons of Dosbox games on Steam, and that's just fine.

The main thing is official support from devs who make great games. That is what I want to support with my money. That I use Linux is just my personal choice, and it is awesome when I can enjoy great games on a great OS. How exactly the port is done should not be my main concern.

So many people here keep saying that Proton supports the Windows ecosystem, but I don't think anyone here seems to have seen that actually Proton is more like EEE: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. But it's not Microsoft using EEE this time, it's US!

Proton Embraces DirectX/.Net/Win32, then Extends those APIs to Linux, by creating an abstraction layer that converts them to Vulkan/Linux/POSIX/etc.

But how does it Extinguish those APIs?

When a gamer is convinced by Proton to switch to Linux because '90% of the games I'm playing work on Linux', you shouldn't underestimate the mental size of the barrier to switching back to Windows. Sure it's something that could be done in a day, but most users are not like technical Linux users and enjoy switching OS all the time. Most like to set things up once, get them working, and then leave things the way they are. And the longer you spend on Linux, the larger that barrier will become as you start to get more cozy and familiar with Linux.

So after switching from Windows to Linux, as long as the user never gets up the mental energy to switch back to Windows, they should remain on Linux. So, unless something terrible happens and they never lose access to an important piece of software, chances are that gamer is going to make decisions on what to buy based on how well each game will run on Linux.

So that gamer won't likely buy exclusively Linux native games, but they will be unlikely to buy games that won't at least run through Proton, and chances are, most importantly: They are less likely to go back to Windows.

But! Think about what that is going to do to the Windows ecosystem as more and more people switch to Linux because of Proton.

Proton starts to alter developer behaviour. Those developers will notice that their Proton compatible games make more sales than their Proton incompatible games. And for absolutely minimal work! Work so easy, they've often done it by accident! Suddenly developers aren't developing for "Windows", they developing for "Windows + Proton". By following a few simple rules for what Windows APIs to use and which ones not to use, the developers can gain some extra sales with minimal work and almost zero investment.

Suddenly, Proton is dictating which Windows APIs are used, as targeting Proton/Windows means targeting the lowest common denominator of both.

When that starts to happen(we shouldn't expect to see that yet, games take years to develop, it's only been 10 months), it will mean more games will work via Proton on purpose instead of by accident, which will mean more gamers will be able to make the switch to Linux and have even more games available to them to buy than before. The number of 'truly Windows only' games will get smaller and smaller as a result.

Thus it creates a cycle, of creating customers who will prefer Linux native, but will buy Linux compatible games. Which in turn will encourage more developers to make their games Linux compatible, until the number of customers becomes large enough to justify Linux native games as well.

Ultimately I see Proton as EEE, it Embraces, Extends, then Extinguishes the vendor-lockin of Windows APIs. Unpicking the Windows monopoly one API at a time. Using Microsoft's requirements for backwards compatibility with their huge software library against them.

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: mylkajust take platinum is wrong
rage 2 had a lot of borked at the beginning, but after a few hours valve fixed it and now it would be platinum

layers of fear 2 has silver, but the only thing you need to do is "-onethread" in launch options and videos dont work

"Wrong" being simply your opinion, I chose to use Platinum as the safest possible bet for statistical purposes only.

Oh, "and videos dont work" - yeah, that's not exactly the experience people are after is it. If something doesn't work, it's another nail in the coffin for people sticking around. Think it through a little.

the video thing may suck. even if there arent a lot of videos, so you have to watch a few minutes on youtube... i give you that, but

rage 2 will never be mentioned by you, because it has to many borked at the beginning

you will never mention yakuza0 because this game wont work with a path which contains an "."

MGS5 never gets platinum, because you need a controller connected, or else the cam keeps spinning (i played it 80 hours and had no single issue)

some games just need some launch options and will never get platinum
some games have negative reviews because they use weird hardware, or old drivers


i think "just platinum" isnt fair. it doesnt represent the power of proton and the hard work valve has done, because of minor issues everybody could solve
i would at least go with gold. i bought a lot of gold rated games and they all worked

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: GuestI've said it before and I will say it again, "no tux no bucks" does more harm than good and this shows why

No Tux No Bux is exactly what we need more of so that we get more Linux support. We want to be Linux gamers and help the Linux support ecosystem, not Windows gamers helping the Windows support ecosystem.

The cold hard truth is that devs will not support linux until the market grows. You think they support Windows because they like Windows? Nope, they support it because that is where the users are. Devs won't develop for linux because there are not enough users, users will not move to linux because that is not where the games they want to play are. Emulation and compatibility layers were always the best hope for linux gaming

No, the cold hard truth is supply and demand, which means Linux support depends on gamers demanding it, and if Proton hurts gamers demanding it rather than encouraging more of that demand due to more gamers switching to Linux and then demanding it, then Proton is hurting more than helping.

If the demand for Linux support overall decreases, then there will be fewer and fewer games with Linux support, and Microsoft wins. We don't want Microsoft's APIs being used more, we want them being used less, and we want developers providing us with more support not less.

I see it differently. Demand for "games on Linux" is shown by the number of Linux sales, which are native and Proton sales.
One day, if all goes really really really... well, Valve will have to stop supporting all Proton sales, because they are a big chunk of all sales then. Maybe they have to grant developers that support Proton directly or even Linux natively slightly better revenues.

Hello everyone, I just read most of the comments and even if I get the no tux no bucks mantra and the proton hurts Linux market share, in my opinion they are two things that counterbalance that.

First, as a Linux user, who has maybe a tux as profile pic or a reference to Linux in your steam name when you play a Windows only game through proton, you will eventually be noticed by someone in your friends list, or other players that are tech enthusiasts or dualbooter giving proton a little more visibility outside the Linux gaming community.

Secondly, proton is probably the best way for new users to stay with Linux. How many people will dualboot or just go back to windows because of one coop game a friend or a family member want them to play?

I would not buy full price proton game myself, and I would not promote Linux for someone who is only interested in AAA, that will force him to go through proton for all his game. But it is still a handy tool even if it doesn't promote Linux as we want to.

Quoting: GustyGhostTags: [Opinion piece]

It has an Editorial tag.

Quoting: aldyThanks to Steam play I was able to play Doom 2016, Fallout 4, Skyrim, GTA V, The Witcher 3, etc.

I understand this...

Quoting: aldy2) Companies don't care about people complaining on internet, they just trust on concrete numbers. If they see that their games are selling well on Linux then they'll consider porting games.

... but not this.

We're going in circles, but again:

If releasing for Windows only and losing 1% of customers, it won't hurt me and I wouldn't change anything.
If releasing for Windows only and not losing customers (because I see Linux users buying it nevertheless) - why the hell would I change anything?!?
They're already buying, why invest money?

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: aldyThanks to Steam play I was able to play Doom 2016, Fallout 4, Skyrim, GTA V, The Witcher 3, etc.

I understand this...

Quoting: aldy2) Companies don't care about people complaining on internet, they just trust on concrete numbers. If they see that their games are selling well on Linux then they'll consider porting games.

... but not this.

We're going in circles, but again:

If releasing for Windows only and losing 1% of customers, it won't hurt me and I wouldn't change anything.
If releasing for Windows only and not losing customers (because I see Linux users buying it nevertheless) - why the hell would I change anything?!?
They're already buying, why invest money?

You will know as soon as your game is not Proton compatible and therefore will not sell to Linux users.

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: aldyIf they see that their games are selling well on Linux then they'll consider porting games.

They're already buying, why invest money?

You will know as soon as your game is not Proton compatible and therefore will not sell to Linux users.

So you're with me it's no incentive to port...
(And the incentive to do larger changes, like using Vulkan instead of DirectX, wouldn't be bigger.)

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: aldyIf they see that their games are selling well on Linux then they'll consider porting games.

They're already buying, why invest money?

You will know as soon as your game is not Proton compatible and therefore will not sell to Linux users.

So you're with me it's no incentive to port...
(And the incentive to do larger changes, like using Vulkan instead of DirectX, wouldn't be bigger.)

Yes, I think right now it is no incentive to port to Linux natively, with a big BUT.
I think Proton made a big number of games availlable to play on Linux. It made and will still go on to make large portions of peoples libraries availlable to play on Linux. I think the percentage of new released games playable on Linux is higher than ever. Although the percentage of native releases might/will decrease, and although we will never know if the percentage of native games would have risen significantly without Proton (which I strongly doubt), I really do think Proton is the only hope for a rise in Linux user percentage. This rise should make developers at least look for Proton compatibility, which is achieved by using Vulkan and non Windows exclusive content. That would make native ports much easier, and that might rise the number of native ports and again Linux users in the long run.
It's a hope, yes, but I know of no other mechanism to reach that goal.

Quoting: Avehicle7887The situation with Wine has always been 2 sided, it is both beneficial and damaging to Linux, which in many cases has been the former. While Steam Play/Wine helps users switch to Linux without sacrificing their favorite games, meanwhile from the devs end, they get to piggyback and profit from a platform they don't support.

In all fairness, I can sympathize with small companies where they lack the resources or the experience for Linux and Wine becomes the better than nothing solution. The large companies on the other hand, they have the funds but don't want to invest in Linux and id Software is a prime example of this.

I think developers tend to be quite pragmatic thinkers. They might not easily understand why someone would demand a native version when there is a Proton version that runs without issues. They may even think it's esoteric or amusing.

It's nice to not have to dual boot into Windows as much when I want to play a game that works with Proton. Also, it's nice to know there's an indicator that the game was purchased as a Linux sale even if it wasn't an actual Linux game.

Another interesting thing is that some games that have native Linux ports work better when using Proton, especially with a multi-monitor setup... I'm looking at you American Truck Simulator :)

I was a bit skeptical at first but am now convinced that Steam Play is a good thing for Linux gaming.

Which ultimately doesn't matter if the games work fine on Linux anyway and the user base has grown enough that the devs are willing to provide said support via Proton when something breaks.

Linux_gaming suscribers is on the rise. I'd argue its because of Proton:

Quoting: GuestNumbers of Linux gamers or subscribers to whatever website increasing has no effect on Linux games if the demand for Linux games isn't also increasing.

I wasn't arguing that it does. But it clearly shows that Valve's involvement with Linux is working to bring users to the platform. And it will only go up when they further polished Proton and Linux desktop and make anticheat work with Proton. Proton is still not complete. But even in it's incomplete state it has persuaded alot people to stay on/switch to Linux. Infact, I might have changed back to Windows if it wasn't for Proton.

If there is one thing I agree with you on, it is that you should ask for Linux port. But you should direct it at developers supporting Stadia and indie devs. Indie devs because their game is easier to port because of scale of the game. Stadia developers because Vulkan is used and Paradox has said there are also other aspects that Stadia shares with Linux. Vulkan and Linux similarity reduces cost for the port. Asking or demanding a port from devs that won't be using Vulkan is futile. They can use the money instead to make a dlc and get more returns from Windows.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 29 June 2019 at 6:26 pm UTC

Quoting: GuestSo far I'm not seeing an increased in the demand for Linux games, though, when looking at hard evidence and the actual numbers.

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Am I right to assume the release date you're using is the first Steam release? Then I figure the curve looks similar to this for a long time, as we often do not see first day Linux releases...