The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep to launch on Linux "late summer", no Bard’s Tale Trilogy due to Steam Play

Easy choice for the developer to make, I suppose, but since that means no support, it's an easy choice for me as a consumer. No sale, and their decision swerves me away from the native product too, cos I'm petty that way. A little bit petty anyway. I might still buy the native game, it does look good.

Out of curiosity, did they have plans for a native Linux version of the trilogy and changed their mind?

Quoting: abelthorneOut of curiosity, did they have plans for a native Linux version of the trilogy and changed their mind?

I honestly don't remember them ever saying the Trilogy would be on Linux, but I may be wrong. We've never covered it either, which leads me to believe it wasn't.

Colour me extremely confused.

Quoting: EhvisColour me extremely confused.

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The Bard's Tale and The Bard's Tale Trilogy are two different things.

Quoting: liamdaweThe Bard's Tale and The Bard's Tale Trilogy are two different things.

So this is about the original 80s stuff? I didn't even know those existed. :D Then it's even weirder because that should all be dosbox/emulator stuff.

Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: liamdaweThe Bard's Tale and The Bard's Tale Trilogy are two different things.

So this is about the original 80s stuff? I didn't even know those existed. :D Then it's even weirder because that should all be dosbox/emulator stuff.

They were remastered/recreated with fancy new graphics and sound.

Quoting: rustybroomhandle

Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: liamdaweThe Bard's Tale and The Bard's Tale Trilogy are two different things.

So this is about the original 80s stuff? I didn't even know those existed. :D Then it's even weirder because that should all be dosbox/emulator stuff.

They were remastered/recreated with fancy new graphics and sound.

The thing is. It's available in the Humble Trove where it's listed including the trilogy. But apparently the Linux build only contains the 3D version and exits when you try to select one of the older games.

Edit:
Downloaded the Windows version. The originals are just zips (password protected :| ) with Apple IIGS disk images and what looks like the KEGS emulator. Which is available for all OSes.


Last edited by Ehvis on 8 June 2019 at 9:57 am UTC

Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: rustybroomhandle

Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: liamdaweThe Bard's Tale and The Bard's Tale Trilogy are two different things.

So this is about the original 80s stuff? I didn't even know those existed. :D Then it's even weirder because that should all be dosbox/emulator stuff.

They were remastered/recreated with fancy new graphics and sound.

The thing is. It's available in the Humble Trove where it's listed including the trilogy. But apparently the Linux build only contains the 3D version and exits when you try to select one of the older games.

Edit:
Downloaded the Windows version. The originals are just zips (password protected :| ) with Apple IIGS disk images and what looks like the KEGS emulator. Which is available for all OSes.

You're still confused. :)

The three games that are sold on Steam as "Bard's Tale Trilogy" are not emulated... they are completely built from the ground up remakes of the three from the 80s. The trilogy that comes with the goofy comedy Bard's Tale are just as you say, the originals with an emulator.

So they're willing to make a Trilogy native port for Mac because they 'feel sorry for them', but not for Linux because it runs well on Steamplay. That's more than enough reason for me to stay far far away from buying it and besides, I don't see Steamplay on GOG now do I?

As for the Bard's Tale 4, I'll be happy to buy it when it's done.


Last edited by Avehicle7887 on 8 June 2019 at 10:21 am UTC

Quoting: Avehicle7887So they're willing to make a Trilogy native port for Mac because they 'feel sorry for them', but not for Linux because it runs well on Steamplay. That's more than enough reason for me to stay far far away from buying it and besides, I don't see Steamplay on GOG now do I?

As for the Bard's Tale 4, I'll be happy to buy it when it's done.

No, they are putting resources into creating native macOS ports due to macOS users having a far larger user base than Linux. That the trilogy happens to work fine with Steam Play on Linux just happens to be a happy circumstance. I'm quite sure that if Steam Play didn't work then they would still make a macOs port and just not mention Linux at all.

If it works nice with Steamplay, why the dev should bother develop another port for the same result?


Last edited by legluondunet on 8 June 2019 at 12:12 pm UTC

Whenever you purchase and run a Windows game through a translation layer, you are effectively shouting from the rooftops: "I want the Win32 / DirectX formats to forever remain the dominant standards in computer games!" or "Please Microsoft, please please please keep me locked into your proprietary standards, this is my covenant with you!"

Quoting: GustyGhostWhenever you purchase and run a Windows game through a translation layer, you are effectively shouting from the rooftops: "I want the Win32 / DirectX formats to forever remain the dominant standards in computer games!" or "Please Microsoft, please please please keep me locked into your proprietary standards, this is my covenant with you!"

Yeah I'm almost 100% sure that the game developers are looking very intensively at how we 1% perform our purchases when determining their future road maps for which technology or platform to use.

With that I don't mean that you shouldn't vote with our wallet, just that Steam Play is currently such a small blip on the radar for the game devs that they completely ignore it. The problems that we have comes from having a 1% user base, if we where larger (like macOS) then it would be a completely different discussion to have but we don't.

Another point of Steam Play I don't think I talked much about, is that it spreads our purchases even thinner with our smaller market share. Not something I've seen others talk about either, just something to think on.

Well, inXile is just very full of bullshit. The kickstarter page for Bard's Tale 4 has a really passionate text about how they loved crowdfunding in all their projects and having a publisher sucks ("crowdfunding is how games are supposed to be made"). Of course, now that they got bought by a huge studio it apparently is great. And all their updates about how the ports were top priority, then about how well they were going, then not so well, then a lot of other things that had to come first... if they don't delay it again (which they certainly can), it will be just over one year late.

As for the remastered old games: everything so far indicated that they were not going to support Linux at all. And, well, they won't. If they didn't mention SteamPlay it wouldn't even be a surprise. But, yeah, unsurprisingly they are full of bullshit. Whether they use Proton or they create another version is a small difference, but unless they offer actual support (with actual testing and committing to fix any bugs) they are just ignoring Linux users.

I am genuinely surprised to see BT IV come to Linux at all, after all this time. I will get it when it's out, since I backed that game what feels like an eternity ago. I will still never buy anything from them again. They have clearly shown what kind of studio they are.

Quoting: legluondunetIf it works nice with Steamplay, why the dev should bother develop another port for the same result?

Good question. But incorrect, IMHO.
The real question is not about whether a game "works nice with Steamplay" or not, but about Linux users' will to pay for said Windows game.
If the majority of the "Linux gamers" finds that paying for a Windows game (with all applied downsides: showstopper-updates, sudden additions of not-working DRM, inability to request technical support or leave a review etc.) is totally acceptable, then the developers are 100% correct in their decision. Otherwise, they kinda have to release the native port in order to show good will towards Linux gaming community.

Ultimately, it all depends on the gamers, not developers.

Quoting: F.UltraYeah I'm almost 100% sure that the game developers are looking very intensively at how we 1% perform our purchases when determining their future road maps for which technology or platform to use.

And Mac's 3% sure make a big difference in their "thought train". :)
Honestly, I think it is more about perception. "MacOS" (or "OSX" or "MacOS X" or whatever) and Macs' in general are well-established products, known since the notorious "Mac vs. PC" ads and often viewed as THE "PC" (misused as the euphemism for Windows) alternative. Mac users often even refuse to call their Macs "PCs". Meanwhile Linux is not perceived as something serious in the personal computer market.

Quoting: liamdaweAnother point of Steam Play I don't think I talked much about, is that it spreads our purchases even thinner with our smaller market share. Not something I've seen others talk about either, just something to think on.

Actually, Josh 'Cheeseness' Bush was among the first to [talk about all of the Proton™ positive and negative consequences](http://cheesetalks.net/proton-linux-gaming-history.php#potential-pitfalls). Truly, a comprehensive article, IMO.

Quoting: GuestIn other words, if anything, you don't want developers seeing the fact you've paid for the Windows game and are playing it on Linux because that disincentivizes Linux support. If ALL Linux gamers were happy with zero support and with funding and paying for the Windows version, developers would have ZERO incentive for releasing Linux support.

Exactly! Of course, ideally one should never even pay for a Windows game in the first place (no, I am not propagating "piracy", there are many legal ways to get a Windows game without paying; some of the greatest even are freeware!).

But accidents happen (failed Kickstarter projects, backlog from the old Windows-days, blind purchases or games from bundles and so on). WINE should be used to ease the pain of switching to Linux for newcomers, not to spread out limited money and time for already established Linux gamers.


Last edited by Alm888 on 8 June 2019 at 5:40 pm UTC

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: eldakingWell, inXile is just very full of bullshit. The kickstarter page for Bard's Tale 4 has a really passionate text about how they loved crowdfunding in all their projects and having a publisher sucks ("crowdfunding is how games are supposed to be made"). Of course, now that they got bought by a huge studio it apparently is great. And all their updates about how the ports were top priority, then about how well they were going, then not so well, then a lot of other things that had to come first... if they don't delay it again (which they certainly can), it will be just over one year late.

As for the remastered old games: everything so far indicated that they were not going to support Linux at all. And, well, they won't. If they didn't mention SteamPlay it wouldn't even be a surprise. But, yeah, unsurprisingly they are full of bullshit. Whether they use Proton or they create another version is a small difference, but unless they offer actual support (with actual testing and committing to fix any bugs) they are just ignoring Linux users.

Any developer who doesn't offer support for our platform is neglecting our platform and us gamers on that platform, correct.

Quoting: liamdaweAnother point of Steam Play I don't think I talked much about, is that it spreads our purchases even thinner with our smaller market share. Not something I've seen others talk about either, just something to think on.

True, and I can think of two ways that could have an impact:

1) If developers see Linux gamers buying Windows games, they'll have that much more reason to NOT offer Linux support. As the number of Linux gamers playing the Windows version in an unsupported way increases, the amount of money they would get if they did provide support decreases. In other words, if anything, you don't want developers seeing the fact you've paid for the Windows game and are playing it on Linux because that disincentivizes Linux support. If ALL Linux gamers were happy with zero support and with funding and paying for the Windows version, developers would have ZERO incentive for releasing Linux support.

2) If developers were looking at such Linux gamers playing Windows games numbers with the idea that it represents Linux gamer numbers, that would be bad indeed, but even then they would still be thinking, "well, they'll pay for the Windows version, so no reason to provide Linux support."

Either way it's a lose for us.

If you want more (bigger) gaming studios and publisher to support Linux, you'll need people that play on Linux. Actually a lot more than now. Really a lot more than the current tiny 1%. Strictly buying for Linux only will get you nowhere. Look at the time before Proton arrived. I had the idea that the number of big/bigger titles for Linux were already decreasing at that time. SteamPlay/Proton is the best chance since a long time for our platform to actually increase the number of Linux users by a noticeable chunk. With SteamPlay people that switch to Linux won't have to go back to the middle ages regarding availability of games. Furthermore SteamPlay purchases appear as Linux in statistics. This last bit is pretty important for me and make the difference. I avoid wine stand-alone (now and before SteamPlay) because mostly the reasons you state, this would indeed move numbers in favor of Windows. Not so with Steam Play. Once the market share moves into our favor I'm would bet that more games will come too, either native or supported by SteamPlay. Both approaches would let you play a game on Linux, so no difference for me.

Quoting: GuestThere are other hints around, but this is the first time I've seen direct confirmation of my fears. Because of Valve and Proton, and to a lesser degree WINE, this developer isn't giving us support.

Frankly, it seems you are looking very hard for anything that supports your hypothesis. Even if we assume that the remasters were absolutely going to get a port otherwise (by this point, even the main game being ported is uncertain), this is anecdotal evidence.

Of course some developers will change their minds, or at least use this as an excuse. How many would that have to be to outweight the benefits of Steamplay?

QuoteTo Valve: You're hurting Linux gaming by taking away our Linux support and strengthening Microsoft's stranglehold. You're also hurting competitors like GOG, itch.io, Humble, etc by telling Linux gamers to pay for Windows games and playing them in completely unsupported ways. You're helping turn Linux gaming into 2nd class gaming where gamers no longer have normal 1st class support, updates can break things at any moment, new releases cannot be relied upon to work (no pre-orders either), and reviews of games aren't warranted when developers never claimed to support playing the game on Linux through WINE/Proton in the first place. That is not something any gamer wants their platform to turn into, and yet you and greedy Microsoft are making progress in doing so and in selling Windows gaming to Linux gamers.

We do not accept this. Krome Studios will not see any of our money until they provide us with Linux support, nor will any other developer or publisher. We will not be 2nd class gamers. We will not support the Microsoft monopoly by supporting Windows gaming. We demand to be treated as equal normal gamers by being given full support from the developers. Developers have to earn our money by providing us with support in return like everyone else gets.

I mean... you are blaming Valve, of all companies, of hurting Linux gaming. One of the most Linux-friendly platforms, that due to its size has done so much over the years to make Linux a better option. Blaming them for creating something that helps Linux players immensely and that has resulted in more games working perfectly on Linux than any single porting company or publisher has ever ported - and that is supposing we don't see additional benefits and more stuff from Valve in the future (it is still in beta!).

Steamplay is great for Linux gaming, because it is great for Linux players: they can play a lot more games right off the bat, the immense majority of which would never gain official Linux support, and in many cases much more easily. This is one of the main goals - make playing games on Linux easier and better and have more games. Pushing official ports is only useful so far as it helps with those goals. We can speculate on indirect effects (whether it will increase adoption, reduce "full" ports, do the opposite of either, whatever). But the direct effect is already huge.

And this is a good excuse to post this article I recently read and found really relevant regarding Wine and compatibility layers: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/06/adversarial-interoperability-reviving-elegant-weapon-more-civilized-age-slay