Valve release an official statement about the future of Linux support, they "remain committed" to Linux gaming

Quoting: Linas

Quoting: Salvatos

Quoting: Mountain ManAt this point, what is the best Ubuntu alternative?

Depends on what you're after. I left Ubuntu after they forced too many UI decisions I didn't like, so Mint was a natural choice for me. Similar look and feel to good old Ubuntu + Gnome.

Debian Testing is also a good choice.

I have to throw out a (huge) caveat: security updates in Testing are not managed by the actual security team! To me, that says stay away except for offline development or playing around in a VM. It shouldn't be your daily driver or your server.

Do you have information I don't that makes you comfortable recommending Testing?

Quoting: ajgpIt going to be interesting seeing how the Ubuntu 32bit debacle is going to affect the next round of PC stats here on GOL (provided everyone updates their PC info), how big is the hit to ubuntu going to be and where have been the big winners from this migration.

Chalk me up as adding to those stats!
I literally had finished assembling a new gaming PC, decided to go with 19.04 [tbf, it's actually incredibly nice to use]. I've used ubuntu on my gaming machines for years just due to the [usually] highest level of support.

But enough is enough. Not only the latest debacle, but I've actually never had a release-upgrade ever work properly, so I always stuck to LTS releases, which get *really* long in the tooth well before they go EoL. So I've now just wiped by near fresh 19.04 and installed Solus. And it's fantastic. Really great integrations for gamers right out of the box. Think I've found a new home for a while.

I still want my 64-bit port of steam. I think it's ridiculous that Steam is still 32-bit. I understand older games will never be updated but I think steam needs to be. I was really hoping that if nothing else that would come out of the Ubuntu fiasco but it's looking like I'll be stuck with 32-bit steam a while longer.

Quoting: ScooptaI still want my 64-bit port of steam. I think it's ridiculous that Steam is still 32-bit. I understand older games will never be updated but I think steam needs to be. I was really hoping that if nothing else that would come out of the Ubuntu fiasco but it's looking like I'll be stuck with 32-bit steam a while longer.

You can still provide the appimage with the game and all the required dependencies for 32bit applications, just a bit work on Valve's side.

Quoting: TobiSGDDebian Testing doesn't security updates in a timely manner.

Quoting: 14I have to throw out a (huge) caveat: security updates in Testing are not managed by the actual security team! To me, that says stay away except for offline development or playing around in a VM. It shouldn't be your daily driver or your server.

Do you have information I don't that makes you comfortable recommending Testing?

The primary task of the Debian Security Team is to take care of stable releases that exist outside of the regular rolling life cycle.

QuoteThe security team evaluates security threats, and produces updated packages for our stable and old-stable releases, and release these packages through security.debian.org together with an advisory mail.

The preferred situation is that the regular maintainer of an affected package (who is most familiar with its ins and outs) prepares updated packages or a ready to use patch which, after approval, will be uploaded to security-master. If the regular maintainer can't or won't provide updates (in time), the security team will take the task of creating the updated packages.

Security for testing and unstable is not officially guaranteed, but the team tracks those distributions as well in the security tracker. A number of regular volunteers outside of the team help with triaging issues on the security tracker.

Testing and Unstable still get security updates through the regular the update procedure. If a security issue is discovered, a fix will be uploaded with a high priority that will expedite its migration to Testing.

All updates are uploaded to Unstable first, so it gets all the security updates quicker. But it also gets all the bugs first, some of which would never reach Testing in the first place.

Therefore Testing is good balance between stability and up-to-date packages.

Quoting: TobiSGDExperimental is not a branch of the distro you can install, it is only a bunch of packages that you can install (preferably on a Sid system) if you dare to do so.

Very true. Experimental is just a collection of packages that are not suitable for inclusion in the the main repository. Things that potentially break other things go here. Also things that are out of scope for an upcoming stable release during the freeze period.

Debian 10 is releasing next week, and they are releasing with a stable Linux kernel 4.19 and Mesa 18.3. Therefore Linux kernel 5.0 and Mesa 19.1 are in Experimental right now. They will be uploaded to Unstable shortly after the release of Debian 10, and will continue the regular rolling life cycle.

On my work machine I run Testing as a default, with some packages from Unstable, because I don't want things to break too much when I am at work.

For gaming, I run Unstable with all the latest and greatest software, and Linux kernel and Mesa from Experimental.

You can usually mix the packages relatively safely, because they will fail to install if some dependencies are not met.

For example you can set your default release to be Testing and add the Unstable repository in your sources list.

echo 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' | sudo tee /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99local-default-release
echo "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib" | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-unstable.list

The packages will install from Testing by default, but you can switch to Unstable temporarily like this:

sudo aptitude -t unstable install linux-image-5.0.0-trunk-amd64

Stable is mostly for enterprise environments, where you need stability and predictable upgrade dates. This also makes it a good choice for your not so tech savvy family members that you need to provide tech-support to. Hi mom, I love you. :)


Last edited by Linas on 28 June 2019 at 8:33 am UTC

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: GuestBut you know... have you considered debian?

Debian and Manjora are the two I'm leaning towards if I were to change.

If you've narrowed it down to two options, the only thing left to do is try both. if you want proprietary drivers remember to select it in the grub boot menu for manjaro's installation iso/usb/cd. Just so you won't have to install it manually later (although they do make installing it manually quite easy, you have to do it through the manjaro settings mangaer/mhwd rather than just installing the package via the package manager)

Sounds a bit like Kubuntu where you install your graphics card drivers through the system settings panel rather than apt or Muon.

Anyway, the biggest obstacle at this point is simply a lack of time.

Quoting: Linas

Quoting: TobiSGDDebian Testing doesn't security updates in a timely manner.

Quoting: 14I have to throw out a (huge) caveat: security updates in Testing are not managed by the actual security team! To me, that says stay away except for offline development or playing around in a VM. It shouldn't be your daily driver or your server.

Do you have information I don't that makes you comfortable recommending Testing?

The primary task of the Debian Security Team is to take care of stable releases that exist outside of the regular rolling life cycle.

QuoteThe security team evaluates security threats, and produces updated packages for our stable and old-stable releases, and release these packages through security.debian.org together with an advisory mail.

The preferred situation is that the regular maintainer of an affected package (who is most familiar with its ins and outs) prepares updated packages or a ready to use patch which, after approval, will be uploaded to security-master. If the regular maintainer can't or won't provide updates (in time), the security team will take the task of creating the updated packages.

Security for testing and unstable is not officially guaranteed, but the team tracks those distributions as well in the security tracker. A number of regular volunteers outside of the team help with triaging issues on the security tracker.

Testing and Unstable still get security updates through the regular the update procedure. If a security issue is discovered, a fix will be uploaded with a high priority that will expedite its migration to Testing.

All updates are uploaded to Unstable first, so it gets all the security updates quicker. But it also gets all the bugs first, some of which would never reach Testing in the first place.

Therefore Testing is good balance between stability and up-to-date packages.

Quoting: TobiSGDExperimental is not a branch of the distro you can install, it is only a bunch of packages that you can install (preferably on a Sid system) if you dare to do so.

Very true. Experimental is just a collection of packages that are not suitable for inclusion in the the main repository. Things that potentially break other things go here. Also things that are out of scope for an upcoming stable release during the freeze period.

Debian 10 is releasing next week, and they are releasing with a stable Linux kernel 4.19 and Mesa 18.3. Therefore Linux kernel 5.0 and Mesa 19.1 are in Experimental right now. They will be uploaded to Unstable shortly after the release of Debian 10, and will continue the regular rolling life cycle.

On my work machine I run Testing as a default, with some packages from Unstable, because I don't want things to break too much when I am at work.

For gaming, I run Unstable with all the latest and greatest software, and Linux kernel and Mesa from Experimental.

You can usually mix the packages relatively safely, because they will fail to install if some dependencies are not met.

For example you can set your default release to be Testing and add the Unstable repository in your sources list.

echo 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' | sudo tee /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99local-default-release
echo "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib" | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-unstable.list

The packages will install from Testing by default, but you can switch to Unstable temporarily like this:

sudo aptitude -t unstable install linux-image-5.0.0-trunk-amd64

Stable is mostly for enterprise environments, where you need stability and predictable upgrade dates. This also makes it a good choice for your not so tech savvy family members that you need to provide tech-support to. Hi mom, I love you. :)

I personally run stable on my server because I don't want to have to worry about it breaking...that being said I run unstable/Sid on my gaming PC and have never had it break so I think I mainly use stable for the peace of mind just in case.


Last edited by Scoopta on 28 June 2019 at 3:21 pm UTC

Quoting: ScooptaI personally run stable on my server because I don't want to have to worry about it breaking...that being said I run unstable/Sid on my gaming PC and have never had it break so I think I mainly use stable for the peace of mind just in case.

Debian Stable one the server is exactly what you should do. When I said that I run Testing at work I meant on my workstation.

Quoting: Linas

Quoting: ScooptaI personally run stable on my server because I don't want to have to worry about it breaking...that being said I run unstable/Sid on my gaming PC and have never had it break so I think I mainly use stable for the peace of mind just in case.

Debian Stable one the server is exactly what you should do. When I said that I run Testing at work I meant on my workstation.

Ahh, I see. Tbh one thing I didn't realize is that testing and unstable were separate. I knew they were separate repositories but I thought they basically had the same packages. I've never really looked much into testing. I've always either stuck with stable or unstable+experimental.


Last edited by Scoopta on 28 June 2019 at 4:03 pm UTC