A look over the ProtonDB reports for June 2019, over 5.5K games reported to work with Steam Play

Quoting: gojulThe only thing with Proton is that you should not play in full screen mode.

what do you mean?

Quoting: Mr. PinskyI am still waiting for .wmv playback support. It's blocking a lot of games. Apparently, there is work ongoing on it upstream in Wine (Media Foundation implementation), but it's not yet ready.

even worse, some games are rated platinum when dont even have support for playbacking the cutscenes, intro or ending of the game.
sigh.
i dont trust protonDB anymore.

Quoting: Comandante ÑoñardoI guess in 2020 We gonna see a new batch of Steam Machines.
Valve has until the EOL of Windows 7 for to polish SteamPlay and make it 100% compatible.

the brand is dead, no one would purchase an valve branded console after their steam machine fiasco.

Quoting: fagnerlnI see some Platinum rating with a lot of workarounds, and some "borked" games that the game runs.

if the game runs for many people but crash on your machine, why would you rate it platinum?
but i totally agree with the opposite, platinum dont mean platinum at all (as i said in my previous comment)

Quoting: gradyvuckovic

Quoting: KimyrielleI would be super scared about the state of Linux gaming without Steam Play. Let's be honest, our platform isn't gaining any momentum whatsoever. We're still stuck at the same 1% market share we had before Linux gaming became a thing. And not only has no further major publisher entered the Linux market in years, we're reading more and more developer comments about Linux not being worth it and them questioning further releases for it. I get the idea that it's not a perfect solution and native ports would be preferable, but at least this way we can play these AAA games that nobody seems to port to Linux. Call me happy!

My thoughts on some possible reasons why:

• The UX of many distros is still very poor. If a brand new convert from Windows picks something like Arch for their first Linux distro, they're going to have a bad time and ask "why the hell would anyone even bother with this?". And by UX, I don't mean just the UIs, although a bad UI is of course included in a bad UX. But also the websites of many distros are poor, there's often poor documentation, and not a lot of beginner friendly content, like videos on how to perform common tasks. New users are often left to just 'figure stuff out' for themselves, and while some Linux users may like that, it would definitely be turning off new users.


• App distribution on Linux is still a bit of a mess. Just look at the length of the 'download' page for Lutris. For Windows that page would just be a single button, 'Download', and hence it wouldn't even be a separate page, just a button on the homepage. We can't seem to nail down what method to make the primary focus of app distribution and often devolve back to just terminal command instructions for each distro. I'd like to see a survey targeting a wide number of people that asks the question, "What is your preferred means of application distribution?", and see if we can pick one, then focus entirely on making all applications available via that means, and integrating it well into every distro. If that's flatpak then focus on flatpak, if it's appimage, then focus on appimage. We just need to pick something and make it happen, and whatever we pick needs to be something other than entering terminal commands like a programmer adding dependencies to a project.


• Even if Proton became perfect tomorrow, it would still take years for us to reach even 5%, because people are hesitant to change something when it works and often completely unaware of Linux's existence or anything happening on Linux. People often take a 'if it aint broke don't fix it' approach to PCs, so the only time to grab a potential Windows user and bring them over to the dark side is when something breaks on their PC, or when they hate the next version of Windows. I don't know how we advertise Linux without becoming 'annoying' but that's something worth tackling.


• Even if Proton became 'perfect' tomorrow, and could run every Windows game flawlessly, there's still one more issue Linux faces: All that achieves is making Linux on par with Windows in terms of number of available games, that still doesn't make Linux superior to Windows for gaming. To the typical user who doesn't care about Linux, what reason do they have to switch to Linux? Linux will need to become 'superior' to Windows for a large number of users first before we get huge numbers of converts.


• There's also still a lot of hardware support issues when it comes to gaming. We got the basics now of course, when it comes to supporting GPUs and such, but stuff like gaming mice/keyboards, customising RGBs, etc, we still don't have many nice solutions for that stuff.

That said, we have gained a little bit of traction recently, and there are always going to be a number of people who will be keen to switch away from Windows even despite everything I've said up there. I think there's lots of reasons to be positive, but we still face a lot of challenges.

I'm with you on everything except app distribution. Maybe it's just that I have a simple use case, but for me there are two sources of applications on Linux: The distribution's "software centre" thingie, and Steam. Steam for (non-open source) games, software centre for everything else; I've never had a use for a closed source application that wasn't a game, and it's been years since I had a reason to try installing something that wasn't in the software centre. So out of those two, Steam is identical to what Windows people use, and the software centre is way easier than what Windows people do. Far as I'm concerned, advantage: Linux on that one.
Sure, if you're an advanced user doing tricky things you might have reason to use other ways that are complicated--but then user friendly is no longer your primary measuring stick anyway.


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 2 July 2019 at 7:23 am UTC

Valve has done a lot of good work, but the industry that gaming has become is fickle and fair weather at best. Because of this, We should also be showing a little more love to the surprising number of good open source games. They'll never abandon us, after all. And projects like GemRB, Exult, Nuvie, Xoreos and the like. Most of these engine re-write projects are in DIRE need of more help.

Quoting: KimyrielleI would be super scared about the state of Linux gaming without Steam Play. Let's be honest, our platform isn't gaining any momentum whatsoever.

QuoteWhy don't you stick with linux?

QuoteI want to play games too

That's the argument I hear most. With most games available in an easy way, there is nothing holding back the more tech savvy, that need linux for their work.

The only reason I install windows, is to RE drivers, so I can run software on linux only :-). And it has come a long way... I really hated it, because the whole Microsoft clueless people world made my life as a software developer a living hell. These days, you can run bash, ssh and rsync, which is good enough to rsync the logfiles to a more userfriendly environment and process the logs.

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: fagnerlnI see some Platinum rating with a lot of workarounds, and some "borked" games that the game runs.

if the game runs for many people but crash on your machine, why would you rate it platinum?
but i totally agree with the opposite, platinum dont mean platinum at all (as i said in my previous comment)

This is exactly what I'm saying, the game is only platinum if it works out of the box in your machine/distro.

Borked is to games that didn't run, but some people use it to games that crashes after a while, which is obviously bronze.

Quoting: KimyrielleI would be super scared about the state of Linux gaming without Steam Play. Let's be honest, our platform isn't gaining any momentum whatsoever. We're still stuck at the same 1% market share we had before Linux gaming became a thing. And not only has no further major publisher entered the Linux market in years, we're reading more and more developer comments about Linux not being worth it and them questioning further releases for it.

And it's not going to change, imo, unless a new hardware platform featuring a pre-installed Linux OS targeting the gaming market happens... And I mean sold in Gamestops, Bestbuys and Walmarts of this world, in store with lots of advertising, not just online drowning among 50 Windows offerings.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 2 July 2019 at 6:13 pm UTC

Quoting: MohandevirAnd it's not going to change, imo, unless a new hardware platform featuring a pre-installed Linux OS targeting the gaming market happens... And I mean sold in Gamestops, Bestbuys and Walmarts of this world (in store, not just online).

And I don't think, in the coming Stadia-like streaming/cloud gaming revolution that's about to happen, that a new hardware option will ever be coming. In the short term, if Chromebooks can start to install and use Steam in the future, that might lead to a bump...

Quoting: iiari

Quoting: MohandevirAnd it's not going to change, imo, unless a new hardware platform featuring a pre-installed Linux OS targeting the gaming market happens... And I mean sold in Gamestops, Bestbuys and Walmarts of this world (in store, not just online).

And I don't think, in the coming Stadia-like streaming/cloud gaming revolution that's about to happen, that a new hardware option will ever be coming. In the short term, if Chromebooks can start to install and use Steam in the future, that might lead to a bump...

In fact, it might transition to Android too. All you need is a Chrome browser. It's easy to create a dedicated Android Stadia launcher, at this point. As for Steam, the SteamLink app will cover you.

https://www.techradar.com/news/new-nvidia-shield-may-support-google-stadia-at-launch

Still, I think that there is going to be an offering for those that prefer gaming on a local machine for a couple of console generations.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 2 July 2019 at 6:39 pm UTC

Quoting: MohandevirStill, I think that there is going to be an offering for those that prefer gaming on a local machine for a couple of console generations.

Oh, absolutely. DVD's didn't overtake VHS overnight, and Netflix/Amazon/HBO streaming didn't overtake DVD's overnight. Many people out there still listen to their records and CD's and watch their DVD's. We'll have our standard way for playing games for a long time still, decades likely, and they'll be niche hardcore gaming that we'll want on our metal. But I think 10 years out the majority of casual gaming will be cloud/streaming... And it'll be on Linux.


Last edited by iiari on 2 July 2019 at 6:51 pm UTC

Quoting: Eike

QuoteI'm actually somewhat surprised to see less in June

Might be this "going outside" or "vacation" thing...

(Especially northern hemisphere, before somebody complains. ;-) )

Went outside once graphics werent up to much

Quoting: iiari

Quoting: MohandevirAnd it's not going to change, imo, unless a new hardware platform featuring a pre-installed Linux OS targeting the gaming market happens... And I mean sold in Gamestops, Bestbuys and Walmarts of this world (in store, not just online).

And I don't think, in the coming Stadia-like streaming/cloud gaming revolution that's about to happen, that a new hardware option will ever be coming. In the short term, if Chromebooks can start to install and use Steam in the future, that might lead to a bump...

Ugh. Well, if that's about to happen it will mean no OS is a second class gaming system. Won't matter if you're running Windows, Linux, Mac, or FreeBSD, long as you got a browser and plenty speed on your interwebz you can rent games. So, well, that'd be one barrier to entry gone at least.

[quote=Purple Library Guy]

Quoting: iiariWon't matter if you're running Windows, Linux, Mac, or FreeBSD, long as you got a browser and plenty speed on your interwebz you can rent games. So, well, that'd be one barrier to entry gone at least.

That's the appeal, yes. I did the Google test with Assassin's Creed Odyssey and it played very well. Felt like any other game on my computer. Save for split, fraction of second dependent competitive e-sports, I think most other types of gaming will be great on streaming cloud services...

Quoting: iiari

Quoting: MohandevirStill, I think that there is going to be an offering for those that prefer gaming on a local machine for a couple of console generations.

Oh, absolutely. DVD's didn't overtake VHS overnight, and Netflix/Amazon/HBO streaming didn't overtake DVD's overnight. Many people out there still listen to their records and CD's and watch their DVD's. We'll have our standard way for playing games for a long time still, decades likely, and they'll be niche hardcore gaming that we'll want on our metal. But I think 10 years out the majority of casual gaming will be cloud/streaming... And it'll be on Linux.

That's a bit of a nightmare scenario. Tell me, how are we supposed to get assets for OpenMW from Morrowind basically being remote controlled by you on someone else's computer? You can't. I shudder to think how many games are going to be lost if the public ever does hop on the steaming bandwagon. You are giving away ALL of the leverage you have as a consumer. Not to mention the fact that whether or not you consider games "art" or not, they ARE cultural artifacts that NEED to be preserved. And we can't trust these companies to do that.


Last edited by Desum on 4 July 2019 at 1:23 pm UTC

Quoting: DesumThat's a bit of a nightmare scenario. Tell me, how are we supposed to get assets for OpenMW from Morrowind basically being remote controlled by you on someone else's computer? You can't. I shudder to think how many games are going to be lost if the public ever does hop on the steaming bandwagon. You are giving away ALL of the leverage you have as a consumer. Not to mention the fact that whether or not you consider games "art" or not, they ARE cultural artifacts that NEED to be preserved. And we can't trust these companies to do that.

The gaming archival issue is absolutely one that needs to get tackled, and your points about asset access and ownership have been widely discussed and acknowledged as well. But, as I addressed in my post, I think there are going to be parallel gaming communities for a long time, decades at least. Just as we now have real books and e-books, and we still have DVDs and Netflix, and you can still buy CDs/records and Spotify, gaming will go the same way. I mean, people are still making new Amiga games! While I still think casual gamers (not necessarily the people on this site) will be mostly cloud gaming in 10 years, a hardcore niche will absolutely still exist in parallel, it might just not be the biggest gaming demographic. Or some people will have their streaming account and their hardcore machine both.

My hope is during those decades of parallelism the issues you discuss will be worked out. In theory, cloud gaming could be a huge advance for modding if desired, as everyone having the exact same mod assets on their individual computers will no longer be necessary. Something like the Steam Workshop would be even easier.


Last edited by iiari on 4 July 2019 at 1:56 pm UTC

Quoting: iiari

Quoting: DesumThat's a bit of a nightmare scenario. Tell me, how are we supposed to get assets for OpenMW from Morrowind basically being remote controlled by you on someone else's computer? You can't. I shudder to think how many games are going to be lost if the public ever does hop on the steaming bandwagon. You are giving away ALL of the leverage you have as a consumer. Not to mention the fact that whether or not you consider games "art" or not, they ARE cultural artifacts that NEED to be preserved. And we can't trust these companies to do that.

The gaming archival issue is absolutely one that needs to get tackled, and your points about asset access and ownership have been widely discussed and acknowledged as well. But, as I addressed in my post, I think there are going to be parallel gaming communities for a long time, decades at least. Just as we now have real books and e-books, and we still have DVDs and Netflix, and you can still buy CDs/records and Spotify, gaming will go the same way. I mean, people are still making new Amiga games! While I still think casual gamers (not necessarily the people on this site) will be mostly cloud gaming in 10 years, a hardcore niche will absolutely still exist in parallel, it might just not be the biggest gaming demographic. Or some people will have their streaming account and their hardcore machine both.

My hope is during those decades of parallelism the issues you discuss will be worked out. In theory, cloud gaming could be a huge advance for modding if desired, as everyone having the exact same mod assets on their individual computers will no longer be necessary. Something like the Steam Workshop would be even easier.

Don't call it "the cloud". It's somebody else's computers. And game streaming (GaaS) will be the death of modding. For one thing, you will NEVER be able to upload mods to a service like Bethesda's workshop that violates anyone's trademark and/or copyrights, nor are they likely to allow more risque mods. The modding community is what it is because of the relative freedom that was afforded to it. That freedom is being taken away so Bethesda can monetize the modding community. I have nothing against modders making money, but a walled garden for mods isn't the answer.