Seems that the Linux version of Supraland will not be heading to GOG (updated)

Quoting: TheSHEEEPYour argument is based on an eventuality that will simply never happen. You think police will kick down your door and arrest you for using a copy of a game you bought some time ago, but no longer "own"? Come on!
Might as well argue that you can't play your GOG games any more if you get abducted by aliens and they only have an old Commodore lying around.

Preparing for such an eventuality makes about as much sense as never using ROMs to play old games, as you are actually only allowed to play ROMs of games you own (and afaik only if you made the ROM yourself).
That's the very essence of tinfoil-hattery. Why waste valuable lifetime to prepare for something that will never happen? Just so, that in the 0.005% of it happening you can point and say "Told you so!"?

Very well said. I've been wondering how best to respond to people crying about Valve's TOS, because it doesn't include text that says you can keep your games you bought that run without the Steam Client, even if Steam closes shop.

What I find funny is majority of people who refuse to use Steam also have NVIDIA GPUs.
Let's create a doomsday scenario for NVIDIA.
NVIDIA closes shop, you have a 500$ GPU, the Open-Source driver is SH*T because NVIDIA doesn't release the firmware/microcodes for their GPUs, you can only play games with the proprietary driver that is rapidly aging, The proprietary driver doesn't work on the new Kernel.
What now?

Quoting: BOYSSSSS

Quoting: TheSHEEEPYour argument is based on an eventuality that will simply never happen. You think police will kick down your door and arrest you for using a copy of a game you bought some time ago, but no longer "own"? Come on!
Might as well argue that you can't play your GOG games any more if you get abducted by aliens and they only have an old Commodore lying around.

Preparing for such an eventuality makes about as much sense as never using ROMs to play old games, as you are actually only allowed to play ROMs of games you own (and afaik only if you made the ROM yourself).
That's the very essence of tinfoil-hattery. Why waste valuable lifetime to prepare for something that will never happen? Just so, that in the 0.005% of it happening you can point and say "Told you so!"?

Very well said. I've been wondering how best to respond to people crying about Valve's TOS, because it doesn't include text that says you can keep your games you bought that run without the Steam Client, even if Steam closes shop.

According to steam support, you can keep playing games after deleting your account if that game doesn't require a steam account. I expect this to apply to anything that doesn't require the steam client to run after it has been installed.

Legally speaking, I expect you are allowed to play anything DRM-free that you have paid for in most countries even if it's against the TOS of the store. That is, as long as you haven't transferred the copy legally or illegally to anyone else first.

Quoting: appetrosyan... For example, if you and the person you shared with decide to play the same game - one of you's kicked out. Fair but it doesn't happen on GOG.

You do realize that's not legal though, right? Just because you bought DRM-free game doesn't mean you can just copy it to your buddy and play it together. So I am not sure what is your point here,... that GOG let´s you break the law? At that point just let your friend torrent it, it will save you the whole dilemma. What Steam does might be nuisance, but also the correct way. In true sense of the term, yes... kicking you off is DRM. Family Share manages the rights to your license and won't let you use one license by two people. I am just not so sure that it harms your rights, because you have no right to use the license by multiple people at once to begin with.

Talking about DRM... There was an update to Stadia's FAQ page:

https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/9338946?hl=en

From the FAQ:

"What happens to a game I bought if the publisher stops supporting Stadia in the future? Can I still play the game?
Yes. Once you purchase the game, you own the right to play it. In the future, it is possible that some games may no longer be available for new purchases, but existing players will still be able to play the game. Outside of unforeseen circumstances, Stadia will aim to keep any previously purchased title available for gameplay."

Similar to Steam, it seems.

Regarding the Steam DRM argument: if you can just copy the various game folders and the game works without requiring you to be logged into Steam, that's DRM free. You don't need an installer available if you can just copy and use the software. Even if you need to copy some libraries or files from the Steam client or something, so long as it is also possible that's ok.

If it prevents you from using the copy in another machine, or requires you to log in, or prevents you from making a working copy at all, or have a regional lock, then it is DRM.

If you can't download a new of the game after you downloaded it the first time, that is not DRM. The service of having an online back-up where you can download new copies is separate from the software itself. Or if you need an account to make the purchase and download the first copy.

And, strictly from the DRM point, it doesn't matter whether it is legal or not. It only matters that there aren't built in measures to restrict your use of the software - whether it is restricting legal or illegal actions is immaterial. I very much think that several of those copyright laws and contracts are bullshit, but the point of being DRM-free isn't to circumvent those.

So, Steam has truly DRM-free games. That isn't necessarily the point, of course; people can simply disagree with Steam's policies (including their offering of DRM for other games, but also many other things), or prefer features in GOG. It is just a different store. (Edit: regarding the use of steamcmd, having a more convenient/more user friendly method of installing/copying/making back-ups of DRM free games is also a possible motive to prefer the store, even if the alternative isn't DRM itself).


Last edited by eldaking on 10 July 2019 at 6:46 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: WouldAvoidValveOnLinux

Quoting: TheSHEEEPYou can do exactly that with Steam, too. It's called Family Share. Been doing that many years with my GF for some games. She can play something from my lib while I play something else. Only requirement is that both have Steam, but since that is free, it's a non-issue.

No. She would be kicked out of one of your games if you play a completely different game from your library. She has five minutes to wrap up any unfinished business.

Then you obviously did it wrong.
Download game from the library, go offline, now you can play.
This obviously won't work for most online-games, but you shouldn't be able to play someone else's online games without buying them anyway.

> obviously did it wrong
> obviously

I didn't know there was a right and wrong way to use workshop, but isn't the right way as intended by valve is to kick her out of the game...? Is the intended way wrong now?

No worries. With GOG, I don't need to concern myself with whether I obviously did it wrong or not. I just copy the installers of the games my sister wants to play through SMB, and we're then on our merry way. She can play Stardew Valley and I can play Terraria, both from GOG, at the same time, which is reasonable and already throws Steam Family Sharing back to the dungeon it came out of. And legally speaking, that's fine; we're both in the same household. And these are two different games for extra measure.

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: WouldAvoidValveOnLinux

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: TheBardDRM-Free on Steam does exist! When a game is DRM-Free on Steam, you don't need to login to play. You can even use steamcmd to install games without the client. Indeed it's a bit more complex that downloading a file from a website but actually it's more convenient because stemcmd deal with lots of stuff. When the download is complete, you can backup the game directly the way you want, move it where you want and play without Steam. I've tested it myself several times! Steam is not a DRM but Steam offer a DRM solution for the devs who want it. It's up to the devs to make their game DRM-Free or not on Steam.

I don't think saying users can learn steamcmd is a reasonable argument personally, for those who prefer fully DRM-free.

Something is not easy to use, so it isn't DRM-free? That's your argument?
I'm all for Steam adding a simple "Download as installer/archive" button or something along those lines to DRM-free games in their store, but not having that button doesn't make them games with DRM.

On GOG, the games are readily available as installers with no further work on your part. I download them, double click, then click install and sit back and enjoy. You're expecting users to be savvy enough to use steamcmd, let alone know it exists, for the pursuit of DRM-free.

I'm not expecting users to do anything, I'm just saying that ease-of-use has nothing to do with DRM or no DRM.
The matter of fact is that there are DRM-free games on Steam.

liamdawe is contesting that those who prefer DRM-free would not find the methods to obtain these DRM-free games okay. That's a point against valve and DRM-free. They're not making it easy. You can argue that a game is DRM-free on Steam, but:

- is this information readily available on the storepage?
- would being drm-free on steam mean it will remain so in the future?
- would the game hold back features that it would've been otherwise mindful of on a DRM-free oriented store like GOG?

As far as I know, a good ton of those games don't disclose on their store page if they don't require the client. You're left to figure them out yourself.

liam accepts that games exist DRM-free on steam, but they shouldn't be treated as anymore than a happy accident. If liam wants a real DRM-free focus and not happy incidents, GOG is nailing it.

[quote=TheSHEEEP]

Quoting: WouldAvoidValveOnLinux[/quoteWhat makes GOG better than valve with DRM-free is that they guarantee their games are DRM-free. Valve does not, and will not mind if devs suddenly start using DRM in a later version of the game.

That is true. If being DRM-free is someone's primary concern, they are better off with GOG.
Though only on Windows, as GOG on Linux, well... You really have to value DRM-free extremely to want to use GOG's crappy slow installers and lack of auto-updates and everything else Steam/Galaxy offers...[/quote]If I am on Linux, it would make even more sense to stick with DRM-free than not to go with the open system. Besides, the "slowness" of the installer doesn't matter to me, I'm just glad there is an installer at all and even on their slowest days, they're still faster than relying on the internet. I love manual updates and I have been playing on PC for ages without clients - I can fare and will fare well. I can't deny no Galaxy on Linux is a bummer, but other than the occasional developer holding out the Linux build because of it, I can do without it on Linux.

Quoting: BOYSSSSSWhat I find funny is majority of people who refuse to use Steam also have NVIDIA GPUs.
Let's create a doomsday scenario for NVIDIA.
NVIDIA closes shop, you have a 500$ GPU, the Open-Source driver is SH*T because NVIDIA doesn't release the firmware/microcodes for their GPUs, you can only play games with the proprietary driver that is rapidly aging, The proprietary driver doesn't work on the new Kernel.
What now?

Damn... You compare Steam software with a physical thing - GPU ?
I can only speak for myself in this case.
I have my current Nvidia GTX 780 for many years, at that time I was only on Windows, I built my PC for that purpose.
But you can see buying a new GPU is expensive, especially if the urrent one is still working, should I throw it out?
I don't think so, we already waste so much resources...

I agree proprietary driver is shit, but right now I can't/don't want to buy another graphics card.
Maybe at least I'll switch to the open source driver soon, even if the performances are not great.


Last edited by Cyril on 10 July 2019 at 7:39 pm UTC

Quoting: appetrosyanJust because YOU haven't put DRM in your game, by publishing on Steam you're restricting my ability to share it. For example, I can lend a GOG game to a friend. He can play the game at the same time as I am playing something else. I can't do that on Steam.

Not really judging or trying to engage, as I'm almost 40 and I've done a fair amount of this in the past myself (not anymore).....but this is textbook piracy. This probably ain't the best argument to make.

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: appetrosyanAlso, I'd like to see how you're going to "just copy" across different platforms.

Pretty much the same way you do on GOG: download the native version of each platform and proceed to "just copy" where ever you want.

Ok. There's a heck of a lot of registry hacking involved, not to mention that the thing is either incomplete, or a fingerprinted backup, neither of which would work the same way.

That being said, it was brought to my attention that even though there aren't any preventative measures in GOG, that practice is not very... ahem... legal. At least not in all cases, but only some of them, when the game specfically is a FOSS game that specifically doesn't prohibit people from sharing the source code (not the game art).