Seems that the Linux version of Supraland will not be heading to GOG (updated)

Nope. GOG only has regular copyright restrictions specified. I.e. you aren't supposed to copy what you bought to others. That's perfectly expected. GOG however allows you personal backups, which is one of the main points of DRM-free. So not the same at all.

And Steam also allows backups (in fact, they mention two ways in their docs). More over, if your game is DRM-free you can move your backup and run it anywhere without the Steam client (which is the other DRM software you always mention on Steam). Not sure where you want to get at this point...

And Steam also allows backups (in fact, they mention two ways in their docs). More over, if your game is DRM-free you can move your backup and run it anywhere without the Steam client (which is the other DRM software you always mention on Steam). Not sure where you want to get at this point...

Not the way you think. They explicitly require you to use their client for backups and restoration. I.e. if your account is closed (or Steam itself is closed), you won't be able to restore your backups legally, since your client will be defunct.


Last edited by Shmerl on 11 July 2019 at 3:16 pm UTC

Not the way you think. They explicitly require you to use their client for backups and restoration. I.e. if your account is closed (or Steam itself is closed), you won't be able to restore your backups legally, since your client will be defunct.

As I said, there are two ways to make backups. One is by making the packages, the other is by just copying your library directory (is mentioned in their docs). The second won't block your access on any Steam games that is DRM-free.

I will argue that DRM are only the software restrictions that enforce this policy. If you are technically able to make back-ups, but are not allowed to do it by an agreement, it is not DRM.

It's not DRM from the standpoint of "breaking measures" i.e. violating anti-circumvention. But it's DRM from the standpoint of placing a restriction. For the lack of better term, DRM-free implies no such restrictions, and that means legal ways of backing up your purchases, not ones that violate the terms of use, while technically not breaking any software barriers. I.e. saying that game is DRM-free but to back it up you need to violate the TOS is not helpful. I don't call such stores DRM-free.

Yeah, it is not helpful at all. But I think it is an important distinction for several reasons. The TOS may not be legally binding in some jurisdictions, or this part might be contested in court, or just the law could change. But once you put DRM to enforce the TOS, it doesn't matter if you have the legal right anymore, and it becomes much more difficult to change or contest. You need both legal means and a technical way of circumventing the protection. If DRM is Digital Restrictions Management (or Rights, if you prefer), the TOS is just the Restrictions being managed digitally (or not being, in the case of DRM-free.

But it is a big pet peeve of mine: different TOS or EULAs are a big difference between various platforms, but people often dismiss it. "Just use this alternative, it is the same" - no it's not, this one has a binding arbitration clause and shares my data with advertisement partners and uses the law of this other country. (Not that I am knowledgeable enough to make perfectly informed choices, because those contracts are bullshit in many ways).

the other is by just copying your library directory (is mentioned in their docs).

That's against their TOS already. Unless they modified it to allow that.


Last edited by Shmerl on 11 July 2019 at 4:55 pm UTC

the other is by just copying your library directory (is mentioned in their docs).

That's against their TOS already. Unless they modified it to allow that.

I can't seem to find it. Is this it? https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement

5. THIRD-PARTY CONTENT ⏶

In regard to all Subscriptions, Content and Services that are not authored by Valve, Valve does not screen such third-party content available on Steam or through other sources. Valve assumes no responsibility or liability for such third party content. Some third-party application software is capable of being used by businesses for business purposes - however, you may only acquire such software via Steam for private personal use.

Doesn't this mean it's up to the content publisher?

I can't seem to find it. Is this it? https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement

It's the part about needing the client for installation step. @x_wing mentioned something about them explicitly allowing manual backups and re-installtion without the client. I've never seen that. Where is it documented?


Last edited by Shmerl on 11 July 2019 at 5:21 pm UTC

I can't seem to find it. Is this it? https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement

It's the part about needing the client for installation step. @x_wing mentioned something about them explicitly allowing manual backups and re-installtion without the client. I've never seen that. Where is it documented?

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7418-YUBN-8129

Warning:
It is highly recommended that you create a backup of your SteamApps folder before attempting this process. If there is a problem in this process and you do not have a backup of your games or the SteamApps folder, it will be necessary to reinstall the games individually. Please see the Using the Steam Backup Feature topic.

They refer to both options, so both are valids backups.

By the way, the license agreement reads:

To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

As it is read, it's not mandatory to have the client running/installed to use everything (to be fair, it's a must for games that uses Steam DRM or similar)

I can't seem to find it. Is this it? https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement

It's the part about needing the client for installation step. @x_wing mentioned something about them explicitly allowing manual backups and re-installtion without the client. I've never seen that. Where is it documented?

Don't know, but here they indirectly say there are games you can play that don't require Steam account.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4650-SDKC-0716#playgames

Can I play games after deleting my account?

During the 30 days before account deletion, games that require a VAC server will not be playable. After your account is deleted, games that require a Steam account will not be playable.

And at "2. LICENSES A." they say you may be required

To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you MAY be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

Last edited by BOYSSSSS on 11 July 2019 at 6:44 pm UTC

They refer to both options, so both are valids backups.

I'm not sure what you mean by both options. Here is their backup documentation: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8794-YPHV-2033

And they say quite explicitly:

1. Install Steam and log in to the correct Steam account (see Installing Steam for further instructions)
2. Launch Steam.
...

I'm not sure what you mean by both options. Here is their backup documentation: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8794-YPHV-2033

And they say quite explicitly:

1. Install Steam and log in to the correct Steam account (see Installing Steam for further instructions)
2. Launch Steam.
...

I meant what I quoted, doing a SteamApps backups is valid (they suggest this). In the article you link explains on how to backup only one of your games, while SteamApps will backup your whole library plus some Steam config files.

Nowhere in the Steam doc or user license a manual backup copy (as intended in the article I shared) is prohibited, I don't understand why you assume that.


Last edited by x_wing on 11 July 2019 at 5:44 pm UTC

I meant what I quoted, doing a SteamApps backups is valid (they suggest this). In the article you link explains on how to backup only one of your games, while SteamApps will backup your whole library plus some Steam config files.

Not sure if it means manual backup, since they say "Please see the Using the Steam Backup Feature topic", which implies they mean using their tool. I'd say, at best it's very ambiguous. Also, there is no clarification on whether you can use such backup for any purpose rather than that very specific use case of "moving your installation". Since it's talking about that, you can't really extrapolate.


Last edited by Shmerl on 11 July 2019 at 5:51 pm UTC

Not sure if it means manual backup, since they say "Please see the Using the Steam Backup Feature topic", which implies they mean using their tool. I'd say, at best it's very ambiguous.

Ok, lets says it is ambiguous. Still, where is written that you can't do a backup copy of your SteamApps?

Ok, lets says it is ambiguous. Still, where is written that you can't do a backup copy of your SteamApps?

I posted that above about using the client. I read it as unless they let you, you have to use the client. So you'd need to find an explicit permission.

Copyright stuff commonly works using explicit, not implicit scope. I.e. if it's not said - it's not covered.


Last edited by Shmerl on 11 July 2019 at 6:02 pm UTC

Ok, lets says it is ambiguous. Still, where is written that you can't do a backup copy of your SteamApps?

I posted that above about using the client. I read it as unless they let you, you have to use the client. So you'd need to find an explicit permission.

As I already quoted, it reads "you may be required". It's a conditional requirement for the usage of their Content and Services. In other words, if you can run it without the client running, then you're fine.

If the purpose of that statement was to empathize that they should explicitly allow you to use it then I think that it should have read: "To make use of the Content and Services you must have a Steam Account and if Steam explicitly allows, you may not require running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet" (tried to keep it as much lawyer-lexic, my apologies if it is not well expressed)

Kinda pointless to keep this discussion. You definitely have a very narrow opinion regarding Steam.

Copyright stuff commonly works using explicit, not implicit scope. I.e. if it's not said - it's not covered.

It also should be explicit that you're not allowed to do something.


Last edited by x_wing on 11 July 2019 at 6:35 pm UTC

As I already quoted, it reads "you may be required". It's a conditional requirement for the usage of their Content and Services. In other words, if you can run it without the client running, then you're fine.

It's not clear what "may be" refers to. But other points are explicit:

To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet. <...>
Except as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Content and Services or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.

I.e. they stress that only what's the agreement allows is permitted, so you can't extrapolate anything implicitly, like I said above. I don't see from the agreement that you can make backups without the client. And let alone use them, if your account is gone (which can happen if Steam shuts down or simply cancels your account).

It also should be explicit that you're not allowed to do something.

Usually the opposite. Copyright allows only what's explicitly specified. Negative parts of the agreement are aimed at reducing what you can normally do by law.


Last edited by Shmerl on 11 July 2019 at 6:48 pm UTC

As I already quoted, it reads "you may be required". It's a conditional requirement for the usage of their Content and Services. In other words, if you can run it without the client running, then you're fine.

It's not clear what "may be" refers to. But other points are explicit:

To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet. <...>
Except as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Content and Services or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.

I.e. they stress that only what's the agreement allows is permitted, so you can't extrapolate anything implicitly, like I said above. I don't see from the agreement that you can make backups without the client. And let alone use them, if your account is gone (which can happen if Steam shuts down or simply cancels your account).

Does the agreement explicitly says that they only allows the execution of games using their client? I know it sounds ambiguous (for example, "you may" is also use for the minimum age), but in other languages is very explicit. I mean, age limit is a must and Steam client use is stated as optional in Spanish (for instance). Regarding the backup, they give a writing consent to copy and backup your SteamApps in the link I shared (that's an official write permission from them to every user that reads that guide).

It also should be explicit that you're not allowed to do something.

Usually the opposite. Copyright allows only what's explicitly specified. Negative parts of the agreement are aimed at reducing what you can normally do by law.

Still, they explicitly says that you may be able to use Content and Services without their Client or an Internet connection.

Still, they explicitly says that you may be able to use Content and Services without their Client or an Internet connection.

Without saying when. So you can't extrapolate from there. Basically they can interpret that like they want. So for the user it basically is equal to "you can't, unless we told you you can".

Even if you argue you can ask them to clarify the ambiguity, the worse part is the account presence issue. One of the points of DRM-free purchase is ability to use what you bought even if the store shuts down. Requirement to have an account prevents you from legally doing it.


Last edited by Shmerl on 11 July 2019 at 8:01 pm UTC

Without saying when. So you can't extrapolate from there. Basically they can interpret that like they want. So for the user it basically is equal to "you can't, unless we told you you can".

This is not true and you are arguing yourself into a corner here. According to your interpretation of laws you can not make a backup of GOG games either. I don't find the word "Backup" in their user agreement either ....