Update: The developer did change their mind and it's now on GOG for Linux. Update #2: The developer later pulled both GOG and Linux down.
Original article:
Supraland released for Linux on Steam on July 2nd and it just released on GOG today but it seems the Linux version will not be heading to GOG.
What is Supraland? It's a very highly rated first-person action and puzzle game, inspired by the likes of Zelda, Metroid and Portal. It's popular, with an "Overwhelmingly Positive" rating on Steam from over two thousands user reviews and from my time spent in the demo, I can see why as it was pretty sweet.
Speaking in their official Discord server, users questioned the developer to find out about a possible Linux release on GOG, since it's only available for Windows there currently. The reply was a little…unexpected:
Their further comments on it were a little more reasonable and understandable, mostly mentioning lower sales on Linux and again on GOG. Even so, that's a pretty naive and hostile attitude to take towards a store (GOG) and platform (Linux) both of which you only just started supporting.
After speaking to the developer myself, they said it was taken out of context (not that I see how, I followed the whole conversation personally). In reply to the same user who also posted this information on GOG, the developer said:
With the "for the sake of it" comment I was refering to a case of "I will only buy on gog because I want it DRM-free" but it IS DRM-free on Steam since forever. This ignorance and "for the sake of it" attitude made me a little angry.
I have not a single bad thought about gog.
They moved onto saying the Linux version performs poorly compared to the Windows version, saying it's better in Proton (which they also said slightly differently on the GOG forum and here too) so they don't want to give "a version that is inferior for reasons I cannot change". So, they're basically telling people on GOG to use Wine/Proton.
So for now, if you want to play the Linux version of Supraland, it's sadly Steam only. Although, going by their other comments it seems they're not confident on actually keeping the Linux version up.
Supra Games are also currently crowdfunding for Supraland 2 on Kickstarter, which is confirmed to be coming to Linux as well.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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This is not true and you are arguing yourself into a corner here.
It's included in these points:
We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a 'licence') to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This licence is for your personal use. We can stop or suspend this licence in some situations, which are explained later on.
You have the personal right to use GOG content and services. This right can be suspended or stopped by us in some situations.
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It seems very unlikely, but if we have to stop providing access to GOG services and GOG content permanently (not because of any breach by you), we will try to give you at least sixty (60) days advance notice by posting a note on www.gog.com and sending an email to every registered users – during that time you should be able to download any GOG content you purchased.
In the very unlikely situation that we have to stop running GOG we'll do our best to give you advance notice, so that you can download and safely store all your DRM-free content.
Backups are personal use, and second part shows that you can use them, even if the service shuts down.
Last edited by Shmerl on 11 July 2019 at 9:04 pm UTC
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Still, they explicitly says that you may be able to use Content and Services without their Client or an Internet connection.
Without saying when. So you can't extrapolate from there. Basically they can interpret that like they want. So for the user it basically is equal to "you can't, unless we told you you can".
Even if you argue you can ask them to clarify the ambiguity, the worse part is the account presence issue. One of the points of DRM-free purchase is ability to use what you bought even if the store shuts down. Requirement to have an account prevents you from legally doing it.
Lets stop playing this game of "what if" and "what I understand" and lets go for the facts:
- It's a fact that you can backup your games by just copying your library folder (Steam doesn't prevent or invalidates your games data)
- It's a fact that running the client in order to run a games is optional, if not developers would not be allowed to release games without that feature
So, lets say that GOG and Steam cease to exist. What would be the difference between having a Steam game copy that works without the client and the GOG installer? Don't know you, but I don't need a piece of paper that tells me that I'm allowed to play something I purchased.
The fact is that no matter the source, both of us will always be able to play any DRM-free content.
Last edited by x_wing on 12 July 2019 at 1:02 am UTC
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Lets stop playing this game of "what if" and "what I understand" and lets go for the facts:
Indeed, I see no point in further refuting your wrong claims that contradict the TOS which says you need Steam account to be allowed to use their games. You can show me the source which says that Steam allows you doing backups and using them without Steam account. Or otherwise let's move on to other topics, because I'm not going to agree with you.
Last edited by Shmerl on 12 July 2019 at 1:05 am UTC
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Lets stop playing this game of "what if" and "what I understand" and lets go for the facts:
Indeed, I see no point in further refuting your wrong claims. Just show me the source which says that Steam allows you doing backups and using them without Steam account. Or otherwise let's move on to other topics, because I'm not going to agree with you.
I showed you were it says that you can copy the SteamApps folders. Also you read the user agreement a noted the "may" in the sentence. So, explain me why Steam doesn't prevent to do what you say they don't allow me to do.
There are facts and what you like to understand.
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There are facts and what you like to understand.
All you showed me is a "may be". I showed you explicit statement, that says that account is required. No account - no [legally usable] backups. So please, let's not repeat this all over, unless you have other sources.
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There are facts and what you like to understand.
All you showed me is a "may be". I showed you explicit statement, that says that account is required. No account - no [legally usable] backups. So please, let's not repeat this all over, unless you have other sources.
Yes, that's definitely a problem if Steam cease to exist... and if the user agreement has any value in that case (or if I decide to "follow the law" in such conditions).
Last edited by x_wing on 12 July 2019 at 1:30 am UTC
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Yes, that's definitely a problem if Steam cease to exist... and if the user agreement has any value in that case (or if I decide to "follow the law").
I pointed it out above. Being able to use what you bought after the store closes down is a major part of DRM-free purchase. So if Steam doesn't fit that condition, it's not DRM-free for me.
Last edited by Shmerl on 12 July 2019 at 1:32 am UTC
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No opinion but just wanna highlight something on this quote on article.
Red "line", spells danger
Supra Games are also currently crowdfunding for Supraland 2 on Kickstarter, which is confirmed to be coming to Linux as well.
Red "line", spells danger
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It's literally renting vs owning.
No, DRM is about restrictions. I.e. whether you are restricted in your usage after the purchase or not. Steam requires you to use the client to install the game. I.e. they don't sanction backups according to their terms of usage (except for using their own backup method, which again involves their client and etc.).
Whether they enforce it or not is already secondary. DRM-free store should not stop you from legally making backups. And they provide downloadable packages for such use case. DRMed stores quite explicitly avoid that, because they don't want you to back anything up.
So you're talking legal restrictions again. I had a look at the Steam Subscriber Agreement, but I'm definitely not a lawyer and couldn't find anything in there that said that un-installing Steam after installing a few DRM-free games was against the subscriber agreement.
Like, I could install Steam, buy Stellaris, un-install Steam and play Stellaris forever. Or I could buy Stellaris on SteamPowered, then use steamcmd to install it, so I don't even have to install the full steam client. No restrictions, unless you can find something in the Steam Subscriber Agreement that I missed.
[edit: I see now that you've already argued this to death with x_wing. I guess we'll disagree on this point then. No worries.]
Last edited by scaine on 12 July 2019 at 9:48 am UTC
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Lets stop playing this game of "what if" and "what I understand" and lets go for the facts:
Indeed, I see no point in further refuting your wrong claims that contradict the TOS which says you need Steam account to be allowed to use their games. You can show me the source which says that Steam allows you doing backups and using them without Steam account. Or otherwise let's move on to other topics, because I'm not going to agree with you.
You are both going at this backwards. Valve does not hold the copyright to any of the games on Steam except their own. Further copyright does not cover usage (making backups however is a copy so that is covered) so no party here Valve nor the correct copyright holder (the game publisher) can sue you for copyright violation for playing a game.
What the Steam TOS defines is that Valve have no legal liability to provide you with copies of the games that you have bought on Steam after your account have been terminated (as well as defining terms at which Valve can terminate your account), not weather you are allowed or not allowed to use the games after the account have terminated. And this is the DRM part of it all, DRM puts a technical limit on how you can use a piece of software and not a legal one.
Remember that when e.g BSA (The Business Software Alliance [basically Adobe and Microsoft]) gets money from businesses that use pirated copies of Microsoft and/or Adobe products they do this by extortion (i.e pay us money or we will publicly shame your company for using pirated software) and not by suing in court. Filesharers gets sued in court since they perform distribution of the software which is covered by copyright.
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Chronarius Jul 12, 2019
There are facts and what you like to understand.
All you showed me is a "may be". I showed you explicit statement, that says that account is required. No account - no [legally usable] backups. So please, let's not repeat this all over, unless you have other sources.
Which is not DRM! If I copy a game directory or make backup how I see fit then this ok. But if I pass it on to a friend then it is copyright violation. Oh, and this is not up to Valve to decide. It's up to the Developer/Publisher. But still this is NOT DRM!
Yes, that's definitely a problem if Steam cease to exist... and if the user agreement has any value in that case (or if I decide to "follow the law").
I pointed it out above. Being able to use what you bought after the store closes down is a major part of DRM-free purchase. So if Steam doesn't fit that condition, it's not DRM-free for me.
Well, then you don't understand what DRM really is at all!
And this is the DRM part of it all, DRM puts a technical limit on how you can use a piece of software and not a legal one.
Here we have what DRM is! A "technical" limitation, e.g. Copy protection! That is why it is called "DIGITAL".
Last edited by Chronarius on 14 July 2019 at 8:56 am UTC
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Which is not DRM! If I copy a game directory or make backup how I see fit then this ok.
Not according to your agreement with Steam. If you want to break it, it's your own choice, but according to Steam it's clearly not OK, so saying "see, it's not DRMed" is not helping anything, I already explained it above.
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I think this has gone as far as it needs to go, especially as it is now on GOG.
If you wish to continue debating DRM, feel free to use the forum.
If you wish to continue debating DRM, feel free to use the forum.
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