The developer of Gloomhaven wants to see what kind of demand there is for Linux support

Quoting: drmothYeah please show them some support. I really am hoping this will come to Linux in native form. It's so much nicer than having to fiddle with a Proton port. FPS is really not an issue for this sort of turn based game.

What sort of fiddling are we talking about? I simply... Proton most of the time works out of the box. If it doesn't, there's a high chance that the "native" port (i.e. static ELF mapping + runtime API call translation) done via SDL won't be much better (in fact I The Witcher 2 doesn't really run all that well, so a basic configuration of Proton does the trick).

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Mountain ManHere's where I stand on this whole issue:

I'm done with begging for ports. If you release for Linux, then I will consider buying your game. If you don't, then I won't.

It's as simple as that.

I continue to be amazed at how some people think. We are and continue to be a niche platform, sometimes developers need a little push. There's a massive difference between showing support... And begging. Claiming its begging its ridiculous.

Liam, with all due respect, is it the case in this very instance? As was previously demonstrated, outperforming Proton with minimum effort is... hard. If they wanted to make a native port, they wouldn't be asking. What they're trying to gauge is how many more users will they gain out of principled Linux gamers that will buy their game just because it has native support.

That in itself seems like a good deal: we get to show that you can make extra bucks by supporting our platform, Wine becomes a bit less of a necessity and the developer gets an inch more popularity. Win Win win? NO! When they decide to drop the support because the extra sales weren't great, the popularity will go away. When the botched port comes around people will test it against Proton, see that their "native" version is worse than the automatic port, and give the developer some extra flak for that. Moreover, once the "toxic" "backlash" to them trying to do the right thing dies down, it adds to the controversies: we have only one single AAA franchise that gets ported to Linux every release: Lara Croft. The withcer 3 didn't get get a port, Shadow of War didn't either. And the problem is that the developers maintain a sour aftertaste, and don't want to venture there anymore. It's not the main reason why CDPR or WB don't ask Feral to port, but that's the main reason why a small developer might want to say — nah, I've heard those jerks can't take it.

If they needed a push, they would've released the source code to the game, asked the community for some feedback (and gotten some, I'm no game dev, but I can troubleshoot bad dependency resolution). They didn't and they won't. I have no guarantee that if they're pushed over the "edge" they'll keep the port up and running. And at this stage it's more important for people who used to port games to keep porting them, rather than inviting new ones and losing both.

Quoting: appetrosyanI would say - No. Don't port it. Judging by their attitude it's highly likely that they will drop the Linux support. Judging by the fact that they're even asking the question, they don't know how many Linux buyers they need to maintain the port. And finally, judging by the fact that they couldn't be bothered to fire up a VM to check if they can actually do it → they'd botch the port anyway.

So why bother. I have SteamPlay, I don't care if the translation was done at compile time or Run time.

Ah I see we've hit peak "Just Proton it" now.

If a developer asks to see requests of Linux support for a game, GamingOnLinux shall continue to let people know. What you do with that info is your decision.

I'm happy to continue to push for native ports. So far, my Windows purchases since 2013 are:
1. Dishonoured 2 (they removed Denuvo, and it's a platinum in ProtonDB, so given my love of the first game...)
2. Doom 2016 (it was my "test Proton" game)
3. Into the Breach (disappointed I bought this - massively overhyped FTL follow up)
4. Deep Rock Galactic (epic game I have no regrets over! Rock and Stone!!)
5. Fallout 4 (in the sale, disappointed I bought this too - horrible mouse issues in Proton)

And at the weekend there, I buckled like a cheap belt and bought Wolfenstein: The New Order.

Would I buy Gloomhaven if it's Windows only? Nope. No chance. So I'll continue to wishlist and nudge developers that native is the way to go, and if it doesn't pan out - no money from me and plenty more fish in the sea. Maybe in a couple of years time Proton will be out of beta, fully supported and will run Windows games flawlessly with not a single issue. At that point, you might consider me a Windows games customer again.

But until then, 99% of my disposable income is Linux native. This month alone that's Nowhere Prophet, Space Mercs, DeltaV Rings of Saturn, Supraland, Baba is You, Gloom, Reaper, Renowned Explorers and a 4-pack of Barony.

Do I have a problem? Yes. Yes I do. But do I use my horrible addiction for the powers of good? Again, yes.

So that's something...

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: appetrosyanI would say - No. Don't port it. Judging by their attitude it's highly likely that they will drop the Linux support. Judging by the fact that they're even asking the question, they don't know how many Linux buyers they need to maintain the port. And finally, judging by the fact that they couldn't be bothered to fire up a VM to check if they can actually do it → they'd botch the port anyway.

So why bother. I have SteamPlay, I don't care if the translation was done at compile time or Run time.

Ah I see we've hit peak "Just Proton it" now.

I like a good SDL port. Very few games are good SDL ports, though. Dungeons 3 crashes on anything except the Wayland session. Deus Ex Mankind divided has weird hair issues. Overlord crashes every 30 minutes. These are huge games that had real backing and were done by professionals, and still have game-breaking bugs.

Proton? Let's see. I had a weird mouse glitch on Wayland in Doom, got fixed upstream. Homeworld Remastered crashes every time you exit the game, but not during gameplay, also fixed upstream.

If they were a AAA publisher that could hire people to do this right, I'd still have my reservations. They're small; they won't be fixing bugs, and they won't be doing this full time. Why not? For them it's not a matter of principle, if it was, such a question wouldn't have even been asked. Since they clearly don't understand what they're getting into, and will eventually drop the support anyway, why bother?

The only difference is that they'd nominally produce an ELF compliant executable that sometimes still links against Windows specific DLLs... What's the difference.


Last edited by appetrosyan on 5 August 2019 at 6:31 pm UTC

Quoting: appetrosyan

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: appetrosyanI would say - No. Don't port it. Judging by their attitude it's highly likely that they will drop the Linux support. Judging by the fact that they're even asking the question, they don't know how many Linux buyers they need to maintain the port. And finally, judging by the fact that they couldn't be bothered to fire up a VM to check if they can actually do it → they'd botch the port anyway.

So why bother. I have SteamPlay, I don't care if the translation was done at compile time or Run time.

Ah I see we've hit peak "Just Proton it" now.

I like a good SDL port. Very few games are good SDL ports, though. Dungeons 3 crashes on anything except the Wayland session. Deus Ex Mankind divided has weird hair issues. Overlord crashes every 30 minutes. These are huge games that had real backing and were done by professionals, and still have game-breaking bugs.

Proton? Let's see. I had a weird mouse glitch on Wayland in Doom, got fixed upstream. Homeworld Remastered crashes every time you exit the game, but not during gameplay, also fixed upstream.

If they were a AAA publisher that could hire people to do this right, I'd still have my reservations. They're small; they won't be fixing bugs, and they won't be doing this full time. Why not? For them it's not a matter of principle, if it was, such a question wouldn't have even been asked. Since they clearly don't understand what they're getting into, and will eventually drop the support anyway, why bother?

The only difference is that they'd nominally produce an ELF compliant executable that sometimes still links against Windows specific DLLs... What's the difference.

For any native game I've had a problem with, I can give you an equal example of a game not working at all or having major problems with on Steam Play and vice versa.

Like for me, the titles you mentioned:
Dungeons 3 - Works perfectly.
Deus Ex Mankind divided - Also works perfectly.
Overlord - Again, works perfectly.

Steam Play? There's been games others have tested, that I can't get to run at all. Again, that argument can be switched around any time based on GPU, driver, distribution and many other random factors. Just the same as I've seen games people on Windows can't run, yet work without issues for me on Linux. People will always have issues, regardless of the method, it's not a great argument either way.

Quoting: gabberI think they are only trying to get some more ppl to buy during early access.

QuoteWe didn't make any tests to confirm it for 100% though

Because firing up a VM and trying it is too much?

Just played 'Human Fall Flat' this weekend to find out they dropped Linux support. Same talk:

QuoteUnfortunately we've made the decision to discontinue Linux support so we can focus on new content and features for Windows and Mac versions.

here:

QuoteWe are focussing on one platform, for now, to make the whole development process more manageable.

what i find funny is they said there focusing on one platform but yet mention windows and mac.that is 2 platforms lol.

for those of you saying if they don't put a native i won't buy it well then you won't be buying many titles then.like i said in earlier posts proton is what is saving linux gaming.without it we would not be able to play alot of these games through steam.i know you can use wine and such but alot of people do not want to go through all that.

Quoting: linuxcityfor those of you saying if they don't put a native i won't buy it well then you won't be buying many titles then.like i said in earlier posts proton is what is saving linux gaming.without it we would not be able to play alot of these games through steam.i know you can use wine and such but alot of people do not want to go through all that.

Fine by me. Like I note above, it's not quite that simple for me - I've bought the occasional title, mostly big AAA that most likely wouldn't never come to Linux anyway. But yeah, native is my preference. Too many issues with Proton/Steam Play.

Maybe that will change. Hopefully.