FOSS voice chat application Mumble has finally put out the massive 1.3 overhaul

Quoting: ObsidianBlkIt has nothing to do with apathy, it has to do with community. If you can't convince your family and/or friends to use these alternate services (and calling them stupid is FAR from effective in doing so), what's the point? Who wants to be in an empty forum or a dead chatroom? People aren't (totally) stupid, but most have neither the skill set, nor time to manage hosting all of their own services, and, for those of us that might, !great!, but your friends are still going to congregate where all of their other friends are, whether that be Discord, Facebook, Twitter, etc, and you're left being a lonely, smug, know-it-all screaming into the wind.

The question is not only centralized Vs self hosted, but rather trusty (being free software or at least open source ect).
At a time where there wasn't Discord or Facebook (or before it becomes a monster, like many services now), people were using softwares like MSN Messenger or Skype, and some still using it! We know we can't trust them and a lot of people continue to use them.
Now we know a lot of alternatives that don't require any skill at all. Tell me what skills you need to start using communication softwares like Tox or Riot.im for example.
Tell me how is it difficult to create an account on Mastodon instead of Facebook/Twitter...

(You know not you particularly)

A lot of people are just lazy, they don't need to be especially a geek guy.
When some say "all my friends and my family are on Facebook", in 2019 sure I believe you, but some ~10 years ago, "nobody" was on it, so why did they register at that time? Facebook has nothing to offer for people, but Facebook profits a lot what people share with it. People who use Facebook are not the clients, they're the product.
And guess what? Some people are great to find excuses to stay on these services, even when a lot know it's shit, they stay on it.

The worst it's when some tell you "it's difficult to create an account, using another service, find about alternatives, I need help etc."... But still you've been capable to create a Facebook account without any help, do you?

I'm sad for these people...
People who know me IRL know how much I hate Facebook (and the others).

I mean it's not having a perfect solution in 2 seconds, but willing to tend to the best not the worst.
Ah... sorry for the harsh comment. :S:


Last edited by Cyril on 9 September 2019 at 5:50 pm UTC

I've been using Mumble on my own server for many years now. Long before Discord existed.

What many people don't know anymore is positional audio (because Discord doesn't support it). Mumble supports positional audio in many games. Again and again impressive in Minecraft, because Mumble not only includes giving a sense of direction, but also of distance. Increases immersion tremendously.

In the beginning I only used Mumble because it was so easy to install (under Debian). But I don't want to miss it anymore. Besides the mail server it is the most important service on my server. It's a sheltered space for friends and family. Everything that is spoken there has passed in that moment. No recordings and evaluations from Google, Apple and Co. Mumble is freedom.


Last edited by 1xok on 11 September 2019 at 9:54 pm UTC

Quoting: CyrilNow we know a lot of alternatives that don't require any skill at all. Tell me what skills you need to start using communication softwares like Tox or Riot.im for example.

I don't know because until this particular thread, I never even heard of those applications before, and I consider myself generally well versed in most FOSS software. Perhaps I just missed them... but if I missed them, I can virtually promise you, most everyones friends and family have never even heard of them!

Quoting: CyrilTell me how is it difficult to create an account on Mastodon instead of Facebook/Twitter...

Creating an account? Not too hard. Figuring out how to find people to follow, and getting your mind around how federated networks can cause a bit of lag... I can see a good majority not wanting to figure that out.

Quoting: CyrilA lot of people are just lazy, they don't need to be especially a geek guy.

Depends on your definition of lazy, though. How hard is it to change the oil in your car? Yet so many people would rather go to a mechanic and have them do it.

Quoting: CyrilWhen some say "all my friends and my family are on Facebook", in 2019 sure I believe you, but some ~10 years ago, "nobody" was on it, so why did they register at that time?

Because the younger generation was moving to it. The generation coming out of college and realizing MySpace was way too juvenile found this new service that, generally, treated everyone like adults. No glitter bombed pages, just clean, clear pages for information and communication... for friends and (shortly after initial release) family. You could find multiple groups with similar interests without having to sign in to multiple forums (assuming the users even KNEW what forums were).

Sure, all of the core services could be done by others, but let's not bury our heads here... for the filth Facebook has become (corporately), it brought the services people wanted to use into a single place and made them ridiculously easy by the standards of the day.

Quoting: CyrilFacebook has nothing to offer for people, but Facebook profits a lot what people share with it. People who use Facebook are not the clients, they're the product.

I agree that Facebook profits off people and their information and that the 'users' are being exploited.

Quoting: CyrilAnd guess what? Some people are great to find excuses to stay on these services, even when a lot know it's shit, they stay on it.

Again... friends and family. You can call that an excuse all you want, but you can't beat that! Only the young are willing to change, and they try all the things. They don't have years upon years of history with their friends yet, and they don't really care yet about the detailed comings and goings of their adult family. As such, they are the ones most likely to leave Facebook and cause a change... BUT... they're young. They're going to be attracted to the loudest new communication/social system. As great as many of these alternatives are, they have virtually no presence. Most people that find them are the jaded ones that are already sick of the mainstream (for whatever reason). Ultimately, even the young will flock to the service all of their friends are using, and, will probably stay their for the majority of their lives or until their children convince them to move.

(I'm being general here, but I believe this to be the vast majority)

Quoting: CyrilI mean it's not having a perfect solution in 2 seconds, but willing to tend to the best not the worst.
Ah... sorry for the harsh comment. :S:

They aren't harsh comments... and when I'm being particularly flippant about the world, I say much the same, or worse about people (I work in IT... gah! The stupid!) None-the-less, IMHO, to simply call people stupid for using the big named services is, ultimately, reductionist. History and society is far more complicated than "people are just too lazy".

Quoting: commodore256I don't trust Discord/ Hammer & Chisel

The hate isn't without merit. It's shit like this is the straw that broke the Camels back for me. I've been burned by non-free Software too many times.

FTFY

Just a nit pick, Sorry :P

Great to see another release! Used it back in my WoW days some ten years ago. Never got into discord or steam voice since we conveniently have a TS3 server at our disposal for years now and the voice quality is still the best in TS. Still good to know there is an open source fallback available and maintained.

Quoting: ObsidianBlkI don't know because until this particular thread, I never even heard of those applications before, and I consider myself generally well versed in most FOSS software. Perhaps I just missed them... but if I missed them, I can virtually promise you, most everyones friends and family have never even heard of them!

Damn, I'm really surprised. Maybe I know some alternatives because I wanted to found some. And I like to search some new stuff around... yeah.

Quoting: ObsidianBlkDepends on your definition of lazy, though. How hard is it to change the oil in your car? Yet so many people would rather go to a mechanic and have them do it.

Maybe for the same reason? They trust them, they're afraid to do it themselves, and maybe they don't want to learn that's all. I don't think laziness is the real issue in this case.

Quoting: ObsidianBlkBecause the younger generation was moving to it. The generation coming out of college and realizing MySpace was way too juvenile found this new service that, generally, treated everyone like adults. No glitter bombed pages, just clean, clear pages for information and communication... for friends and (shortly after initial release) family. You could find multiple groups with similar interests without having to sign in to multiple forums (assuming the users even KNEW what forums were).

I have some doubts here. At least from my point of view (in France). I think most of people I knew/know weren't on Myspace or similar, they were just using Skype/MSN. Even at that time I didn't trusting Facebook at all, It seemed too good to be true. While all people were euphoric about it...

Quoting: ObsidianBlkAgain... friends and family. You can call that an excuse all you want, but you can't beat that! Only the young are willing to change, and they try all the things. They don't have years upon years of history with their friends yet, and they don't really care yet about the detailed comings and goings of their adult family. As such, they are the ones most likely to leave Facebook and cause a change... BUT... they're young.

I disagree with that statement. IMO, this have nothing to do with their age, thinking about my experience on it. Some youngs are really Facebook addicts, while I know some older people that understand the issues about it and try to learn to avoid it etc.

Quoting: ObsidianBlkThey're going to be attracted to the loudest new communication/social system.

If it's enough to bombard them with advertising... then they're sheeps, but this can change.

Quoting: ObsidianBlkAs great as many of these alternatives are, they have virtually no presence. Most people that find them are the jaded ones that are already sick of the mainstream (for whatever reason). Ultimately, even the young will flock to the service all of their friends are using, and, will probably stay their for the majority of their lives or until their children convince them to move.

I agree with you there.

Quoting: ObsidianBlkThey aren't harsh comments... and when I'm being particularly flippant about the world, I say much the same, or worse about people (I work in IT... gah! The stupid!)

Ah don't tell me about it... I know. :D

Quoting: ObsidianBlkNone-the-less, IMHO, to simply call people stupid for using the big named services is, ultimately, reductionist. History and society is far more complicated than "people are just too lazy".

Reductionist, maybe, but sadly I think it does a lot. And living in this system makes them lazy more easily IMO.


Last edited by Cyril on 10 September 2019 at 12:17 am UTC

Quoting: GuestThat being said, there is an alternative client to Discord that I use that piggybacks off of Discord's protocols:

Ripcord. It's an Alpha, but it's something.

It's also Qt-based, which is a win in my book. If my girlfriend keeps pestering me to jump back into Discord (which I abandoned after they moved to a GTK3 build of chromium/electron), it's nice to have an option.

I recently switched from old Kubuntu to Manjaro, so after few years of occasional old Mumble use, I got the new version from Manjaro. GUI is considerably better, but the sound quality is appalling - constant crackling, few seconds delayed echo from headphones and other people. I tried turning off everything which seemed it could be causing it (noise reduction and similar), I double checked it is using correct devices (which work in other software), but I still can't use it, it's just too broken. Anyone having same issue or any idea how to resolve this?

I switched to Matrix/Riot, but I would prefer to continue using Mumble :'(.

Quoting: devnull

Quoting: scaineWhy the Discord hate here? Every time someone shouts "spyware" about this app, I do another little search on the internet and yet every time, I seem to end up on the usual fairly paranoid forum and reddit posts that simply put Discord in the same basket as Steam and Facebook.

Well, you're reading Reddit. Not sure why I'm surprised?

As one who has been vocal about it many times all I can say is bullshit. Look at their client yourself if you think people are being "paranoid" (why is that even derogatory here?). The process logging is a --TINY-- part of the problem. And no, you cannot just "opt-out", try it. Go on, we'll wait. What's that? You can't?

While I don't know the truth about Discord, I can read English. You are incorrectly parsing what you're replying to and this is leading you to be inaccurately insulting. Scaine did not say that Scaine typically hangs out on or relies on Reddit. Scaine said that when he does an internet search on this topic, all it ever seems to turn up is Reddit discussions and similar things.
Ironically, both of you are critiquing and devaluing the other side's position for association with Reddit. But the difference is that you're doing it based on misconstruing (deliberately?) the other person's meaning.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: devnull

Quoting: scaineWhy the Discord hate here? Every time someone shouts "spyware" about this app, I do another little search on the internet and yet every time, I seem to end up on the usual fairly paranoid forum and reddit posts that simply put Discord in the same basket as Steam and Facebook.

Well, you're reading Reddit. Not sure why I'm surprised?

As one who has been vocal about it many times all I can say is bullshit. Look at their client yourself if you think people are being "paranoid" (why is that even derogatory here?). The process logging is a --TINY-- part of the problem. And no, you cannot just "opt-out", try it. Go on, we'll wait. What's that? You can't?

While I don't know the truth about Discord, I can read English. You are incorrectly parsing what you're replying to and this is leading you to be inaccurately insulting. Scaine did not say that Scaine typically hangs out on or relies on Reddit. Scaine said that when he does an internet search on this topic, all it ever seems to turn up is Reddit discussions and similar things.
Ironically, both of you are critiquing and devaluing the other side's position for association with Reddit. But the difference is that you're doing it based on misconstruing (deliberately?) the other person's meaning.

I have to admit, I wasn't trying to devalue anyone's opinion. I've re-read my comment(s) and I honestly don't think I was being particularly harsh. I just can't find any evidence against Discord that isn't based on a general hatred of all things proprietary.

And I'll say it again (more respectfully this time perhaps): if that's your stance, that's great It's genuinely admirable. It's not for me though, and it does definitely grind my gears to be insulted by such paragons of virtue just because I don't share those ideals. I work in cyber security - I'm not a "brainless gamer" just because I use Discord.

It amazes me how much vitriol people with these ideals throw around. It's a weird superiority complex and I recognise it because frankly anyone who uses Linux daily probably harbours something of that complex for people who use Windows.

And we should be better than that as a community. You don't convert a Windows user by telling them that they're a blubbering idiot for using Windows. You convert them by showing them why Linux is better. That hardly ever happens though. Sneering condescension isn't going to win anyone over.