The Linux and gaming Sunday round-up paper

Some irrelevant local news: I recently purchased a used DVD copy of Borderlands 2 for $8, the only place it mentioned needing Steam was in tiny font in the system requirements, as such it was a dud since the cd key had already been used, and the cherry on top: the place I bought it from has a no return policy on PC games. Now I sit here contemplating whether or not pirating the game is morally justified at this point or if this is all really my fault for expecting anything different.

Some irrelevant local news: I recently purchased a used DVD copy of Borderlands 2 for $8, the only place it mentioned needing Steam was in tiny font in the system requirements, as such it was a dud since the cd key had already been used, and the cherry on top: the place I bought it from has a no return policy on PC games. Now I sit here contemplating whether or not pirating the game is morally justified at this point or if this is all really my fault for expecting anything different.

Ouch. I would certainly never shop there again but you must have some local consumer organisation that could deal with a case like that? No store should be able to get away with that sort of thing as they shouldn't have accepted it to sell it in the first place. Depends how much you want to push it I guess. Me? I wouldn't stand for it.

Some irrelevant local news: I recently purchased a used DVD copy of Borderlands 2 for $8, the only place it mentioned needing Steam was in tiny font in the system requirements, as such it was a dud since the cd key had already been used, and the cherry on top: the place I bought it from has a no return policy on PC games. Now I sit here contemplating whether or not pirating the game is morally justified at this point or if this is all really my fault for expecting anything different.

More annoying than the money is being cheated. You should be able to file a complaint against the shop in any country. Something like that is simply illegal. Such a shop must be closed. They are fraudsters.

That's horrible. The shop should have checked if the game requires Steam and after they found out that it does, not have sold that game.

Seems a "high" price to pay for an old game. You could have picked up a brand new Steam key for approx $3-$4 in a suitable sale. Of course, you don't get the physical media or cover artwork. Maybe go back to the shop with the receipt and ask to speak to a manager. They might relent at their previous response.

More and more developers have been kicking up a fuss about changes to MacOS, with a lot across our Twitter feed mentioning they will no longer support it with their games in future.

Having maintained macOS builds for my old open source project since what seems like forever, this is something that has been nagging me at the back of my head for a while as well. I have not yet given too much thought about the issue, but will do so when 10.15 is available in a stable enough version to actually risk installing it :-).

This is a prime example though how important an open OS like Linux is, where no single entity is able to control or dictate which software runs and which doesn't.

Some irrelevant local news: I recently purchased a used DVD copy of Borderlands 2 for $8, the only place it mentioned needing Steam was in tiny font in the system requirements, as such it was a dud since the cd key had already been used, and the cherry on top: the place I bought it from has a no return policy on PC games. Now I sit here contemplating whether or not pirating the game is morally justified at this point or if this is all really my fault for expecting anything different.

I'm of the opinion that there are times it's perfectly acceptable to pirate a game, but I don't think this is one of them. The store cheated you, so they're the ones who owe you something.

It's as if they sold you a cracked (physically, not pirated) CD, or one from which the game data had been stripped from the CD. I'd speak with the manager and (politely) explain it that way. If they were stubborn I'd press on that it's really not about the $8 but that I felt I was defrauded of my money, and I'm perfectly willing to contact the Better Business Bureau, the Chamber of Commerce, and their District Manager (if it's a chain)---I'll see to it that the Town/County/State attorney's are made aware of how I was defrauded. I'd accept a cash refund, or a refund to my credit card, or a $20 Steam gift card, which would cover the cost of buying it directly from Steam.

Then, I would make good on my promises.

Some irrelevant local news: I recently purchased a used DVD copy of Borderlands 2 for $8, the only place it mentioned needing Steam was in tiny font in the system requirements, as such it was a dud since the cd key had already been used, and the cherry on top: the place I bought it from has a no return policy on PC games. Now I sit here contemplating whether or not pirating the game is morally justified at this point or if this is all really my fault for expecting anything different.

Sorry but for me it's obvious that this game was using Steam, all boxed versions need it. I hope you know perfectly well that Steam have the monopoly now on all boxed PC games. There was no way this used copy have worked. Of course the code was already going to be used.

It's trap!

Glad to hear Stallman is staying on since he neither did nor said anything wrong. In a saner world he'd win a defamation or slander lawsuit against Vice.

Glad to hear Stallman is staying on since he neither did nor said anything wrong. In a saner world he'd win a defamation or slander lawsuit against Vice.

He said a lot wrong. And no, he would lose a defamation case against anyone who just printed literally what he said.

Anyhoo, GOL has a block feature. I have found it has improved my general experience a lot.

Perhaps I'm showing my age here, but how is the store commiting fraud? Is it because the game license is owned by steam or it's a requirement?

I remember as a younger person buying used games at a store. PS2 games, computer games, etc. I'd imagine if someone came in with an old computer game and activation code, the store would likely accept it.

With steam/online activation, is the whole concept of second hand games no longer valid? That seems sad, especially for lower income kids. I had a certain joy going through the used games bin with my friends looking for hidden treasures.

Perhaps I'm showing my age here, but how is the store commiting fraud? Is it because the game license is owned by steam or it's a requirement?

I remember as a younger person buying used games at a store. PS2 games, computer games, etc. I'd imagine if someone came in with an old computer game and activation code, the store would likely accept it.

With steam/online activation, is the whole concept of second hand games no longer valid? That seems sad, especially for lower income kids. I had a certain joy going through the used games bin with my friends looking for hidden treasures.

It's because the user who originally owned the key has obviously used it so anyone picking it up second hand can't actually use the key, so basically they purchased a copy someone else still has = shouldn't happen, the store is 100% at fault.

... GOL has a block feature. I have found it has improved my general experience a lot.

Thanks, but I've never seen anything on GoL that I'd ever want to block. One of the things I like so much about Liam's site is its general spirit of community and bonhomie. :)

Anyhoo, GOL has a block feature. I have found it has improved my general experience a lot.

On that note, I just made that feature a bit better.

Happy Sunday.

Glad to hear Stallman is staying on since he neither did nor said anything wrong. In a saner world he'd win a defamation or slander lawsuit against Vice.

He said a lot wrong. And no, he would lose a defamation case against anyone who just printed literally what he said.

Anyhoo, GOL has a block feature. I have found it has improved my general experience a lot.

Thankfully we won’t have the chance to put the argument to the test. I don’t agree with what Stallman said, but I believe that the media reaction wasn’t proportional to what he said in that instance. It”s more akin to the straw that broke the camel’s back.


Last edited by appetrosyan on 29 Sep 2019 at 4:59 pm UTC

Sorry but for me it's obvious that this game was using Steam, all boxed versions need it. I hope you know perfectly well that Steam have the monopoly now on all boxed PC games. There was no way this used copy have worked. Of course the code was already going to be used.

My general rule is to not touch any used PC game that obviously requires Steam, in this particular case it wasn't as obvious as it usually is for me as all Steam reliant DVD games I bought prior had a Steam logo somewhere on the case, this one did not. I also tend to skim over system requirements on older PC games for perhaps obvious reasons, though I guess I oughta keep an eye on that now. I bought other 2K published games such as Bioshock and Borderlands 1 recently and those relied on SecuROM rather than Steam for DRM, so I wrongly assumed Borderlands 2 would be the same.


I think the store is ultimately at fault here, they did not inform me of the no return policy on PC games and refused to take the game back for store credit. The cashier I was talking to when trying to return the game was also the manager so... well, I'll have to take my complaints elsewhere. Though I'm not certain how much of a fuss I'm willing to stir over $8.

On the plus side on the same visit I also bought a copy of Witcher 2, and while the DRM servers for that were down I was able to redeem the CD key over at GOG. I was thinking of throwing out the now useless DVD to prevent it from re-entering the second hand market and then maybe filling it the case with a burnt copy of the GOG release.

Re: Kickstarter: It’s always odd to me to see people clamouring for worker unions. Here those things are essentially a mafia and I’ve never heard anything but complaints from employees being forced to join unions and being strong-armed and bullied by them. They get rich off of protection money which they then use to lobby governments for their own purposes. It’s hard not to be sympathetic with KS’s stance coming from this background, although I imagine things are different in the US.

Re: MacOS: Anything that puts a nail in Apple’s coffin is good news to me. On the other hand, if it gets any end users to free themselves from Apple, they’re just as likely to move (back) to Windows, so it makes little difference beyond cheaper computers for them. I suppose one can hope that the Mac gaming market shrinking might lead to better odds of support for Linux as the only viable PC OS for game devs to support besides Windows, but it seems just as likely that they will simply focus on Windows and consoles.


Last edited by Salvatos on 29 Sep 2019 at 8:26 pm UTC

Some irrelevant local news: I recently purchased a used DVD copy of Borderlands 2 for $8, the only place it mentioned needing Steam was in tiny font in the system requirements, as such it was a dud since the cd key had already been used, and the cherry on top: the place I bought it from has a no return policy on PC games. Now I sit here contemplating whether or not pirating the game is morally justified at this point or if this is all really my fault for expecting anything different.

Sorry but for me it's obvious that this game was using Steam, all boxed versions need it. I hope you know perfectly well that Steam have the monopoly now on all boxed PC games. There was no way this used copy have worked. Of course the code was already going to be used.

It's trap!

What might be obvious to you or not is completely irrelevant here: The store sold Botonoski a faulty product, there is really nothing more to it.

And while we are at Borderlands 2 and macOS it's still sad that Aspyr ported the last DLC:s and coop for only macOs.

My general rule is to not touch any used PC game that obviously requires Steam, in this particular case it wasn't as obvious as it usually is for me as all Steam reliant DVD games I bought prior had a Steam logo somewhere on the case, this one did not. I also tend to skim over system requirements on older PC games for perhaps obvious reasons, though I guess I oughta keep an eye on that now. I bought other 2K published games such as Bioshock and Borderlands 1 recently and those relied on SecuROM rather than Steam for DRM, so I wrongly assumed Borderlands 2 would be the same.


I think the store is ultimately at fault here, they did not inform me of the no return policy on PC games and refused to take the game back for store credit. The cashier I was talking to when trying to return the game was also the manager so... well, I'll have to take my complaints elsewhere. Though I'm not certain how much of a fuss I'm willing to stir over $8.

On the plus side on the same visit I also bought a copy of Witcher 2, and while the DRM servers for that were down I was able to redeem the CD key over at GOG. I was thinking of throwing out the now useless DVD to prevent it from re-entering the second hand market and then maybe filling it the case with a burnt copy of the GOG release.

You played the Russian roulette but with a full loaded gun.
Even if you don't see a Steam logo, there is none Borderlands 2 boxed edition without Steam, it doesn't exist.
You can check for example on pcgamingwiki.com for that stuff.
There are exceptions, but "98%" of PC games need Steam since many years, unfortunately.

And yes I have the Bioshock 1/2 DVD and The Witcher 2 DVD too, and some other games but that's not a lot, really.
But of course I'm not defending the store, it's either fraud or profound ignorance.

Glad to hear Stallman is staying on since he neither did nor said anything wrong. In a saner world he'd win a defamation or slander lawsuit against Vice.

He said a lot wrong.

Over the years, no doubt. On this occasion, such as?

And no, he would lose a defamation case against anyone who just printed literally what he said.

I can't recall all the text of the article; I don't believe that's quite what they did. But they're responsible for the headline, not just the article. The headline was certainly both inaccurate and defamatory--and headlines get read by a hell of a lot more people than the articles under them. (The article's author probably wasn't responsible for the headline, but Vice sure as hell was)

On the thread about this, I didn't see a single person getting upset at Stallman over what he actually said. To the contrary, pretty much everyone who was upset was basing their anger on what they assumed he must have said given the Vice headline and perhaps the tenor of the article. Nobody who went and read the emails seemed to be all that mad. This suggests to me that the Vice article was quite successfully defamatory.
(Some people may have been upset at what he actually said--I didn't see that, though; nobody was saying "He said this, which was a bad thing to say." rather it was all general and mistaken, along the lines of "He defended Epstein" (which he did not), or references to things he is rumoured to have said in the past, or explicitly based on the Vice headline)