The Children's Commissioner in England has called on the government to class loot boxes as gambling

Quoting: fagnerlnHERE WE GO AGAIN...

We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.

You know, if you're talking about parents moderating whether their kids are playing a mature game, sure! However, let's look at a game like Fifa, which has a HUGE number of MTX... I just looked it up... all of the game that I saw were rated 'Everyone' (US - ESRB). Why would parents assume they have to monitor and/or moderate their child's use of a game that a recognized ratings board deemed appropriate for... EVERYONE?! Your statement also assumes parents are even aware of the issues going on with Lootboxes and other aggressive MTX strategies. Most aren't. So when they see a game is rated for Everyone, they're going to assume that their little Jane or Johnny is fine.

What makes this rating rather damning is, on a very technical level (the kind of technical level that gives the finger to the spirit of a law and bowls people over with the letter of the law instead), lootboxes and other MTX strategies are not gambling, which leaves the loophole open for games that should be for all ages (like, for kids as much as anyone else) to have predatory gambling (like) transactions designed purely to con gamers (especially kids and others susceptible to gambling-like behaviors) into spending money... all while mom and dad are none the wiser until they suddenly see their child racked up a bill of over $1000 in a game with a rating that suggests it's a perfectly innocent game.

Quoting: fagnerlnAh, and talking about drugs, I bet that mostly of you in the comments support the "free drugs" movement. "People are free to use any drug they want, because they 'own' yourselves, but gambling, nah, please government, save them", ironic

So you bet without knowing much of people, nice sir. But let me riddle that for you: government _regulation_ is about regulating what people have to lower the risks and damages that _most_ people will have by enforcing rules to the people that _make money off_ the very subject. So Free Drugs and shit without government regulation is as dumb as it get. Government regulation on drugs would actually ensure a base line quality that mesh into not fucking your health. Because health is expensive. (Side note: and saving on health, especially in a country with healthcare, like NL is pretty massive since not spending money -ie not having to heal someone by not having that person sick- is the best move)

And if you had ever worked with drug addicts, or lived with some drug users, you'll know one thing: if the cops have to tell people to not smoke pot right now because of something (ie sand, glass, plastics) found en masse in a large amount of the local blended pot in the area, you'll be a billion time better off with the government accepting that people sell (and pay taxes over those sales) drugs because they'll enforce a base line of health related rules.

So, to bring it back to the point: the government enforcing rules against gambling/lootboxes/whatever the fuck and such may not be about meddling in your business, but enforcing rules to ensure damages can be controlled.

But then again, if people have to spell it out, maybe the problem isn't how other governments want to regulate that but yours alone.

Gambling addiction is like drug addiction, hell even fucking sport addiction. It's an addiction, and many people are vulnerable to that. Not to the same addiction necessarily, tho, but all in all it can destroy one life.

To go back more on the topic, I have a bit of a problem with this:

QuoteA place to track historic spending in games

And

QuoteGames distributed online should get a legally enforceable age-rating system like physical games
A requirement of additional warnings for games which have in-game transactions

Let me explain: Steam has one already for free to play games (IIRC, but maybe others too). But it's ass ×10. For Dota for example:

• Go on your profile


• Go to the game badge (so a game not played recently goes like Go to Games, Click the Badge)


• Click on the game's badge page (there will be cards) 'How do I earn card drops?'


• Check how much money you spend (it seems to reset at some points! I'm fucking sure I've spent more money than it show since the cards happened -I'm talking about 2k$ more than shown for me, so I'm pretty fucking sure-

The only way to qualify this, and from the bad habits I've seen in US/UK laws being quote applied to the letter of it a good note would be:

QuoteAn easy to access place to track historic spending in games

For the second quote: wouldn't that still leave open the Crash Bandicoot Racing Nitro-Fueled/Plants vs Zombies GW2 shenanigans? Start without a shop, get the rating, then push an update to have a shop. Boxes can't all be fixed, many people doesn't follow up on games before hands to know if it'll happen or it's suspected.

I'd actually want to see how they could enforce the kind of legwork that bullshit will make happen. As nut as it sound, would publishers have to run through an office all the update? Sound pretty shit. Will an office overwatch the games over the years and go ham on publishers trying that? Sound less shit to be quite honest, but not ideal. At least it'd enforce games to have them or not from the get go.

On the other hand, at some point, a company should reflect on the need of money versus the risk of getting whacked by a governmental office over that kind of thing. I couldn't feel sorry for those trying tho. I'm all for people making money with their hardwork, but not much if it include fucking over people.


Last edited by MisterPaytwick on 22 October 2019 at 4:55 pm UTC

Quoting: fagnerlnHERE WE GO AGAIN...

We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.

Yeah, regulating society is bad! How dare they making laws not to kill each other, or steal each other's stuff! Unacceptable! And now they want to protect minors from online gambling using the same logic already in place for real life gambling! How dare they!!!!

Libertarians will never cease to make laugh, really. Second dumbest ideology on Earth, after the Flat-Earthers. As if totally unregulated markets would have worked at any point in history, anywhere in the world. *rolls eyes*

Also, I don't think you have kids. Otherwise you would find having to say "NO!!!!" to the 99.9% of all mobile games that use these pathetic business practices as annoying as I do.

Quoting: fagnerlnAh, and talking about drugs, I bet that mostly of you in the comments support the "free drugs" movement. "People are free to use any drug they want, because they 'own' yourselves, but gambling, nah, please government, save them", ironic

Bad example. The legalization is not about legalizing all the drugs, it's just for a very specific set of them. Drugs are complex item and can be very harmful on inexperienced hands, so that's why not every drug can be managed by everyone. In the same line, we can expect that kids will have bigger problems than adults in order to handle gambling techniques.

Quoting: fagnerlnMaybe if the father spent some time with the kid, maybe this didn't happened the first time.

Yes, this is exactly how kids work. You tell them not to do something, and then they never do it.

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: fagnerln

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: fagnerlnAh, and talking about drugs, I bet that mostly of you in the comments support the "free drugs" movement. "People are free to use any drug they want, because they 'own' yourselves, but gambling, nah, please government, save them", ironic

Ironically, you pointed at the difference between adults and kids yourself in the very same posting...

The adult is responsible for the children, not the government, is that hard to get?

I known a boy that used their father's credit card, ONCE. The father explained to him that this is a bad thing. Maybe if the father spent some time with the kid, maybe this didn't happened the first time.

You are so incredibly naive and narrow minded, I'm genuinely amazed.

I've seen first-hand how gambling can ruin an adult's life, just as much as a child.

So, because some are irresponsible, we all need to be supervised? Sorry, no. I like my freedom (even to do stupid things). It's my life and my money. And I don't even like games with microtransactions, loot boxes, ...
And yeah, government is like mafia. Probably worse, mafia takes your money and then leaves you alone (mostly). Government takes your money and with it tells you what you can (and can't!) do, how to behave, what to do with your life... I'm a human, not an ant or Chinese. I grew up in socialism and the West is going that way right now with all this bullshit. Sad.
Sorry for that, I'll try to refrain from politics, it's a website about games.

Quoting: TetsSo, because some are irresponsible, we all need to be supervised? Sorry, no. I like my freedom (even to do stupid things). It's my life and my money. And I don't even like games with microtransactions, loot boxes, ...
And yeah, government is like mafia. Probably worse, mafia takes your money and then leaves you alone (mostly). Government takes your money and with it tells you what you can (and can't!) do, how to behave, what to do with your life... I'm a human, not an ant or Chinese. I grew up in socialism and the West is going that way right now with all this bullshit. Sad.
Sorry for that, I'll try to refrain from politics, it's a website about games.

I think we found the most naive and ridiculous comment we're going to find on GOL for a while right here.

I'll be blunt as heck: if you think rampant loot box gambling and super forcive microtransactions are in any way good and not in need of sorting out, you need a fracking reality check.

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Liam DaweI attempted to watch some live the other day, the UK Speaker is hilarious. I'm pretty sure at this point uuurderrr is just a tic, he seemed to say it every few words :P

I watched a bit of it on Saturday.
I wasn't sure every "uuurderrr" was really neeeded either.
You do have some interesting traditions for sure. ;)

QuoteThe year is 2137. According to tradition, the British Prime Minister heads to Brussels to ask the EU for an extension to Brexit. No one knows where this strange custom originates from, but each year it attracts 1000’s of tourists to the city.

No idea where the origin of that tweet is now. Somewhat ironic.

Very interesting.

As anyone with parenting experience knows, it's impossible to monitor thier child 24x7 and when trying to do that was a fad some 20 years ago (helicopter parenting anyone?), I recall it didn't work out very well in generating emotionally resilient adults.

I'd expect it's even harder when it comes to online gaining and social media. Trying to keep up with the latest fad or app or game can be pretty difficult.

Fun aside, I was taking to a fellow patent with a teenage child. The newest communication/social media trend for that age in our area? Google docs. Everyone had an account in the school. Share the doc with your group and everyone types in it in real time.

So, GOL parents... What's your experience been with dealing with your child's online habits?



I'll share mine:

My family was watching tv while I was at work. We use a roku for our tv. My wife went to use the rest room while the kids were finishing their show. All of a sudden she gets an email thanking her for her online purchase of a Harry Potter movie.

Turns out our kindergartener opened the Amazon Prime app and saw the movie and decided to watch it cause "I saw a toy like that at the site and it looked cool"

We had parental controls set on the device, but apparently an in-app purchase had a separate control (if one even exists) in the app itself.

Atleast they picked a decent movie.

Any good stories from you guys?


Last edited by denyasis on 23 October 2019 at 9:39 am UTC

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: fagnerlnHERE WE GO AGAIN...
We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.

Then fight for police and army to be disarmed and fired.

Bit of a difference there. The police and army don't control us. The police are simply the enforcers of the law and the army don't have any ability to control us, except when drafted to help the police or if martial law is declared.


What controls us is the law, and what the law should do is govern our interactions with each other such that we are unable to infringe on the liberty of others. It is there to protect us from other people. What it should not be, but is increasingly becoming, is something to protect us from ourselves (with the obvious exception of the mentally incapable, which includes children).

With regard to gambling, or any addictive activity, the law should not be banning adults from engaging in it. However, it should regulate providers to ensure that they are not taking advantage of their clients. For example, online bookies are required perform due diligence when taking on new clients. They are required to investigate unusual financial behaviour or unusually large stake amounts. They are required to allow clients to self-exclude and to enforce the exclusion for the time the client originally specified. And, of course, children are not allowed to engage in gambling as they are not deemed competent.