Steam for Linux can now run games in a special container

Could this be another hint towards the rumoured cloud service?

Quoting: vildravnCould this be another hint towards the rumoured cloud service?

I'd assume it is more a let's-kill-32-bit (see e.g. ubuntu) fail-safe. Thoughts?


Last edited by Schattenspiegel on 10 November 2019 at 10:50 pm UTC

Quoting: vildravnCould this be another hint towards the rumoured cloud service?

My thoughts exactly

> allow you to isolate your Home folder

I hope it will finally allow users on SteamOS have separate game/achievement progress even if the game saves it to $HOME instead of e.g. steam cloud. Also good for the sake of keeping $HOME tidy, although that I've already accomplished by other means (`HOME=~/saves steam`).

Quoting: Schattenspiegel

Quoting: vildravnCould this be another hint towards the rumoured cloud service?

I'd assume it is more a let's-kill-32-bit (see e.g. ubuntu) fail-safe. Thoughts?

Reading the announcement it seems likely that you are spot-on.

Also likely to try and deal with games that have peculiar dependencies that they did not consider bundling with the game and breaks on newer version of libs etc.

Quoting: pb> allow you to isolate your Home folder

I hope it will finally allow users on SteamOS have separate game/achievement progress even if the game saves it to $HOME instead of e.g. steam cloud. Also good for the sake of keeping $HOME tidy, although that I've already accomplished by other means (`HOME=~/saves steam`).

:O

How come I've never thought about such a simple solution to keeping games from cluttering up my home? Any gotchas you've found with that solution so far?

Quoting: shorberg

Quoting: pb> allow you to isolate your Home folder

I hope it will finally allow users on SteamOS have separate game/achievement progress even if the game saves it to $HOME instead of e.g. steam cloud. Also good for the sake of keeping $HOME tidy, although that I've already accomplished by other means (`HOME=~/saves steam`).

:O

How come I've never thought about such a simple solution to keeping games from cluttering up my home? Any gotchas you've found with that solution so far?

I do the same on one of my systems. Be sure to symlink .config/pulse, so that your default audio device is respected. There might also something to do with default browser, etc. And of course, don't forget to always launch it that way :)
Thankfully there is an EULA that's displayed if I run it off the wrong path, so I can just discard that.

I've been having more and more concerns about isolating proprietary software and the RCE tools that are multiplayer games from my system. Nowadays, I run steam inside a flatpak, which works pretty well (only the binding of Isaac doesn't like it, but there is the steamplay version, even if I have to cope with slowdowns). This also has the added benefit of uncluttering my $HOME.

This development is interesting, though (a shame they're not using ostree/flatpaks). From what I understood, you cannot enable both tis and SteamPlay globally?

Edit: maybe they are using flatpaks, looking at the naming convention?

Edit 2: likely!

QuoteThe unofficial flatpak distribution of the Steam client is not compatible at this time.

The flatpak solution wraps the entire Steam client, whereas Valve's approach is to wrap individual games first. Both approaches rely on the same technologies and we are looking into improving compatibility in the future.

That's a bummer. I'm looking forward to their improvements!


Last edited by MayeulC on 11 November 2019 at 12:07 am UTC

Is it using lxc?


Last edited by Shmerl on 11 November 2019 at 3:07 am UTC

Quoting: shorbergHow come I've never thought about such a simple solution to keeping games from cluttering up my home? Any gotchas you've found with that solution so far?

I had to move or symlink some stuff in .config and .local/share but I've done it along the way when something didn't work etc. One example is .local/share/vulkan, the other is .config/pulse already mentioned by MayeulC. Also symlinked .config/godot so that I can run it either from steam or directly and have the same stuff. And of course it took some time to move all the clutter from $HOME because games can save their stuff in the most obscure places...


Last edited by pb on 11 November 2019 at 3:15 am UTC

Quoting: pb

Quoting: shorbergHow come I've never thought about such a simple solution to keeping games from cluttering up my home? Any gotchas you've found with that solution so far?

I had to move or symlink some stuff in .config and .local/share but I've done it along the way when something didn't work etc. One example is .local/share/vulkan, the other is .config/pulse already mentioned by MayeulC. Also symlinked .config/godot so that I can run it either from steam or directly and have the same stuff. And of course it took some time to move all the clutter from $HOME because games can save their stuff in the most obscure places...

Another solution is starting Steam with firejail --private=/another-directory steam, which then uses "another-directory" as home dir for Steam. Or you could use the Flatpak Steam install.

Quoting: NeverthelessAnother solution is starting Steam with firejail --private=/another-directory steam, which then uses "another-directory" as home dir for Steam. Or you could use the Flatpak Steam install.

Is using flatpak Steam producing the same behavior as setting the HOME env variable?

It certainly limits the Steam app, but is it true as well for the games launched from it?

This might also be a thing that could go towards satisfying Easy Anticheat's requirements, without making changes to the OS, which the average Linux user would not have liked.

Quoting: Creak

Quoting: NeverthelessAnother solution is starting Steam with firejail --private=/another-directory steam, which then uses "another-directory" as home dir for Steam. Or you could use the Flatpak Steam install.

Is using flatpak Steam producing the same behavior as setting the HOME env variable?

It certainly limits the Steam app, but is it true as well for the games launched from it?

Flatpak is a container solution that installs programs into sandbox directories and isolates them from your system. It provides programs with everything they need, from dependencies to all needed system files. From your system it only sees the kernel, drivers and directories you configure it to see and use. It does even provide 32bit libraries on pure 64bit systems.

More here: flatpak.org

Quoting: ShmerlIs it using lxc?

It sounds from their blog post like they're using bubblewrap - or possibly even Flatpak. (which would also mean bubblewrap)

Finally some real improvements. It always bothered me to just download and run 3rd party applications on my machine. But locking them down into their own container is absolutely necessary to get out of this security hell that's called steam.
Don't get me wrong, I love steam. But it is a security nightmare.
Any app can grab your / and send it to $someoneelse because there is 0 checks on that.
They don't even have to hide the scripts.
There are so many developers on steam, you can't keep them in check.
But containerizing it is what's really necessary, and it has a lot of benefits.

That's the 32bit solution right there. Excellent.

Finally they're doing this (if they actually make it impossible for apps to access the users home directory). Running closed source binaries on your system with the rights of your own user is really nothing but a security nightmare. Any stupid little game can fetch your bookmarks, your documents, your SSH keys (!) and whatever else it might be interested in. If you take that in mind, any big Steam sale could be seen as poking little holes into your privacy protection... for many one big reason they use Linux in the first place. But, the same is true for the Steam client itself. It also is a closed source binary, so itself should be run in a container as well.

I use firejail for that right now, but sadly some games don't like that and don't work anymore. It's just some of them. Would be awesome if Valve would make Steam run itself in a proper container that doesn't lead to problems with games.

Quoting: NeverthelessFlatpak is a container solution that installs programs into sandbox directories and isolates them from your system.

Flatpak does not sandbox applications *unless* the flatpak requests it. It would be interesting once it starts enforcing it.
I don't know how steam flatpak is packaged though. With or without a request for containerizing.

Quoting: ShmerlIs it using lxc?

If you mean the kernel side of LXC, yes. Those are called namespaces and containergroups.
LXC is a userspace commandline interface to the kernel API.

For instance: you don't have to use LXC to setup a second seperate IP stack with it's own firewalling, all you need is to use ip (from iproute(2)).

Quoting: ArdjeFlatpak does not sandbox applications *unless* the flatpak requests it. It would be interesting once it starts enforcing it.
I don't know how steam flatpak is packaged though. With or without a request for containerizing.

It's the other way around: Everything is sandboxed & the application requests (at install time) access to resources. By using Portals access can also be handled at runtime, but this is limited to the available portals:
Flatpak Sandboxes
Flatpak Sandbox Permissions

Steam requires a lot of access but not to the whole root- or home-folder (Steam Flatpak manifest.