Valve are making the Index VR kit available in more countries

Europe is NOT covered. It's not available in Norway.

Strange, it's available here in Sweden, 1079€ though (which of course is basically free for you rich Norwegians).

I know, and since it's only sold through Steam I can't just drive across the border and pick it up in a shop either. I'll have to get a Swedish colleague to buy it for me on his steam account and get it transported to me somehow.

It's really odd, this. It's the same with all Valve hardware: No Norwegian distributor deal.

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country), now this will be a guess completely outside my area of competency but since this is related to hardware it's quite possible that it have to do with electrical appliance safety regulations where you just need to apply for a single one inside the entirety of the EU but probably need a nation by nation one for every other country (don't know if the Norwegian / EU treaty covers this aspect).

ate at a snack bar

Never eat at a snack bar. Don't matter what country you're in, you'll hate it after the snack bar.

Beg to differ, here in Göteborg we have one place, Lasse på Heden, that's categoriced as a Gourmet Snack-bar and that place is really, really good. Not to mention the "Gourmet Sausage" (Gourmetkorv) place that we have at the train terminal who servers 60 varieties of excellent sausages.

ate at a snack bar

Never eat at a snack bar. Don't matter what country you're in, you'll hate it after the snack bar.

Beg to differ, here in Göteborg we have one place, Lasse på Heden, that's categoriced as a Gourmet Snack-bar and that place is really, really good. Not to mention the "Gourmet Sausage" (Gourmetkorv) place that we have at the train terminal who servers 60 varieties of excellent sausages.

Those do sound good. I was thinking of a particular kind of thing. They happen in certain kinds of tourist traps and such. They serve generic fast food, but because they're serving mobs of tourists they will never have a repeat customer so they don't need to worry about doing a decent job. They're not a chain, so they don't even need to worry about even fast-food-chain-style quality control. The tourists are a semi-captive audience so they can charge through the nose. Those snack bars. They're evil.

Those do sound good. I was thinking of a particular kind of thing. They happen in certain kinds of tourist traps and such. They serve generic fast food, but because they're serving mobs of tourists they will never have a repeat customer so they don't need to worry about doing a decent job. They're not a chain, so they don't even need to worry about even fast-food-chain-style quality control. The tourists are a semi-captive audience so they can charge through the nose. Those snack bars. They're evil.

Never thought about this. My diner wasn't the crowded tourist place kind, but felt like "we're the only one in town (you'll find)", but the captive part sure feels true. Guess we need to take some sandwiches with us next time. :) (The diner had been shut down when my wife was back at Narvik years later.)

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country)

Sounds unlikely. We're member of EEA, and have access to the inner market of EU. And absolutely everything else of hardware - including Vive who it looks like Index is based on (same base stations) - is here. But The Valve hardware specifically is not. I know of no other products in the same situation. Never heard of.

$999.00 is a really hard price to justify, even if I could afford it.

Try to say that on Steam forums, their replies goes from "you dont have a job" to "maybe it is time to move to another country".

These VR owners are just a bunch of 4ssh0l3es(not all of them, some has been very open minded and they know VR isnt for everyone, so Alyx should have a non VR version), they even speak that you arent a "PC gamer" if you dont upgrade your PC every two years. Also they automatically think that if someone doesnt like VR is because they cant afford it.

This has been a cancer since PC gaming exist in the 90s, a handful of people who had plenty of money to spend on the most expensive hardware is always attacking PC gamers that play on laptops and low-mid end hardware, when a game is poorly optimized they blame people for not "upgrading", the worst thing is they are a vocal minority, because Steam surveys show most people play on Laptops and low end PCs, worst of all, VR owners are even less than Linux gamers, but they are behaving right now like if they were an entitled mayority.

VR is expensive, Valve had 4 years to make it affordable but instead of that they prefer to launch an "exclusive" game, Index is their first solo VR product, but one could think that they experience with VIVE would serve Valve to learn that the first step was making VR accessible for most, but they preferred the EGS/Console way.

I'm going to go ahead and be one of those dickheads. I'm not going to say boo hoo, you can't afford it, or that you shouldn't play games on laptops, that's up to you.
But I don't think they should make a non-VR version of this game; Because when you do, it tears up the intention of the game. If it is made for VR there are certain criteria that would make it suck in a non-VR environment, just as if it were made in 'pancake' mode, and then converted to VR.
Being able to correctly interact with objects, and having realistic reload mechanisms, physics, etc would be incredibly difficult to get working right without being 'in there'.
Will this single game sell VR kits? Most assuredly. Will people whine that they can't play it for whatever reason, also most assuredly.

Whether some people like it or not, VR is the wave of the future of gaming (and other things. I'm really waiting until I can strap my face in and have multiple screens and do the 'Minority Report' style of work.) Yeah, the kit is expensive right now, and yes it requires a high end PC. But as you say, in the 90s, there was this push for hardware to run the games at full optimizations, though I think you're remembering it wrong. 90s was mostly EGA/VGA/Amiga/Atari ST competition. Late 90s/early 00s were when people first really started the PC master race arguments. Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong because I didn't really get into Wintel systems until '95 when I was more or less forced to. Only a couple years into that I started dabbling with Linux :)

I will end with this, VR does make things better. For example, try Elite: Dangerous on a normal monitor, then try it with VR. It's a HUGE difference.

I might consider if it was at half the price. That would put more VRs in people's homes.

Oculus Rift S, while technically not as advanced as Index, is $399, which is less than half the price of Index. It works really well and is much easier to set up than Index. People expect it to be available for $349 on Black Friday.

Unfortunately no Linux support, not even a half-baked one like Index.

Not sure why you'd say Index support on Linux is half-baked, it actually works just as well as it does under Windows (with the exception that I think the bluetooth power management for the lighthouses is still broken, I need to test that again).

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country)

Sounds unlikely. We're member of EEA, and have access to the inner market of EU. And absolutely everything else of hardware - including Vive who it looks like Index is based on (same base stations) - is here. But The Valve hardware specifically is not. I know of no other products in the same situation. Never heard of.

My guess is, Gabe traveled there once and also had food that poisoned him, so no Valve products for Norway!

Oh well... Will wait for a Steam sale to get a Valve Index kit 90% off... Yeah sure! :D


Last edited by Mohandevir on 25 November 2019 at 4:57 pm UTC

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country)

Sounds unlikely. We're member of EEA, and have access to the inner market of EU. And absolutely everything else of hardware - including Vive who it looks like Index is based on (same base stations) - is here. But The Valve hardware specifically is not. I know of no other products in the same situation. Never heard of.

My guess is, Gabe traveled there once and also had food that poisoned him, so no Valve products for Norway!

Don't you have that delicious fermented fish?

Back on topic.
You said you basically own all new VR headsets, right?

Is the higher price of the Index vs. the Vive / Oculus justified?
Or in other words, for someone only going for ONE VR kit,
would you say going for the Index is worth the price?

Thanks for your input! :)

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country)

Sounds unlikely. We're member of EEA, and have access to the inner market of EU. And absolutely everything else of hardware - including Vive who it looks like Index is based on (same base stations) - is here. But The Valve hardware specifically is not. I know of no other products in the same situation. Never heard of.

My guess is, Gabe traveled there once and also had food that poisoned him, so no Valve products for Norway!

Don't you have that delicious fermented fish?

That's us their friendly eastern neighbour of Sweden that have the famous fish (surströmming) that you can find in every "let's puke" video on the Internet :)

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country)

Sounds unlikely. We're member of EEA, and have access to the inner market of EU. And absolutely everything else of hardware - including Vive who it looks like Index is based on (same base stations) - is here. But The Valve hardware specifically is not. I know of no other products in the same situation. Never heard of.

I know that you are part of EEA, I was just thinking about weather or not that agreement also covers the certification of electrical appliances, those you have to apply for for each and every iteration of a product so it does not matter if the Index is based on Vive or not since the Index would require their own certification. Part of the inner market agreement is that products are certified once for the entire EU.

Anyway it's very strange and a major oversight by Valve. If you happen to live near Oslo then consider that I live in Göteborg (and have an office next to Gothia Towers / Liseberg) so if you ever plan to make a trip to the east I could give you assistance (if you now would trust random dude on the Internet of course).

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country)

Sounds unlikely. We're member of EEA, and have access to the inner market of EU. And absolutely everything else of hardware - including Vive who it looks like Index is based on (same base stations) - is here. But The Valve hardware specifically is not. I know of no other products in the same situation. Never heard of.

My guess is, Gabe traveled there once and also had food that poisoned him, so no Valve products for Norway!

Don't you have that delicious fermented fish?

Back on topic.
You said you basically own all new VR headsets, right?

Is the higher price of the Index vs. the Vive / Oculus justified?
Or in other words, for someone only going for ONE VR kit,
would you say going for the Index is worth the price?

Thanks for your input! :)

I own the Original Vive, Vive Pro and Index. Each has it's pros/cons. Vive is nice because you can use a lesser GPU to get nice FPS. Vive Pro got a lot clearer, but I was running into issues with screen tearing. Turns out it was an issue with having G-Sync monitors, which I believe they have since fixed (I don't know, because I ended up getting the Index which didn't have the problem.)
Now here's where it gets a little muddled. The Index and the Vive Pro both have the same resolution. But there are some advantages to the Index in comfort, one they ditched the velcro method of holding the facemask on and instead have a cool magnetic one. The downside of course is that you have to currently buy those from Valve, but I do like it better than the sweat soaker that the HTC comes with, and you can buy third party fake leather ones that are pretty nice, though if you sweat a lot, you might want to use the sponge, since then it should prevent sweat from dripping into it.

Please also note that the Index uses LCD vs OLED, so while the screen door effect (which I never noticed until watching a movie, now I can't unnotice it...) is a lot less on the Index, the black levels are off, so everything kind of looks like the contrast is up too high. This isn't all that noticeable in video games, but in the virtual theater, it kind of is. Any games where you need to read, I'd suggest either the Vive Pro or Index. It was pretty much too fuzzy for me on the original Vive. It's clearest on the Index, but definitely a huge improvement over the original Vive with the Pro.

Onto the controllers. Index vs Vive wands. Now, almost all games out there support the vive wands. Not as many support the Index controllers, which is a shame. You can program them of course, much like the Steam controllers. But as far as future proofing goes, I'd get the Index ones even if you're getting a Vive setup. Also, I believe the 2.0 lighthouses are supposed to be more future proof as well.

Overall, price of them, I'd say get the Index. You're getting better resolution, better controllers, and the 2.0 hardware for a bit more than the original Vive, but far less than a full Vive Pro setup, which I think is still 1400? Plus you get the Half Life game for free :)

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country)

Sounds unlikely. We're member of EEA, and have access to the inner market of EU. And absolutely everything else of hardware - including Vive who it looks like Index is based on (same base stations) - is here. But The Valve hardware specifically is not. I know of no other products in the same situation. Never heard of.

My guess is, Gabe traveled there once and also had food that poisoned him, so no Valve products for Norway!

Don't you have that delicious fermented fish?

Back on topic.
You said you basically own all new VR headsets, right?

Is the higher price of the Index vs. the Vive / Oculus justified?
Or in other words, for someone only going for ONE VR kit,
would you say going for the Index is worth the price?

Thanks for your input! :)

I own the Original Vive, Vive Pro and Index. Each has it's pros/cons. Vive is nice because you can use a lesser GPU to get nice FPS. Vive Pro got a lot clearer, but I was running into issues with screen tearing. Turns out it was an issue with having G-Sync monitors, which I believe they have since fixed (I don't know, because I ended up getting the Index which didn't have the problem.)
Now here's where it gets a little muddled. The Index and the Vive Pro both have the same resolution. But there are some advantages to the Index in comfort, one they ditched the velcro method of holding the facemask on and instead have a cool magnetic one. The downside of course is that you have to currently buy those from Valve, but I do like it better than the sweat soaker that the HTC comes with, and you can buy third party fake leather ones that are pretty nice, though if you sweat a lot, you might want to use the sponge, since then it should prevent sweat from dripping into it.

Please also note that the Index uses LCD vs OLED, so while the screen door effect (which I never noticed until watching a movie, now I can't unnotice it...) is a lot less on the Index, the black levels are off, so everything kind of looks like the contrast is up too high. This isn't all that noticeable in video games, but in the virtual theater, it kind of is. Any games where you need to read, I'd suggest either the Vive Pro or Index. It was pretty much too fuzzy for me on the original Vive. It's clearest on the Index, but definitely a huge improvement over the original Vive with the Pro.

Onto the controllers. Index vs Vive wands. Now, almost all games out there support the vive wands. Not as many support the Index controllers, which is a shame. You can program them of course, much like the Steam controllers. But as far as future proofing goes, I'd get the Index ones even if you're getting a Vive setup. Also, I believe the 2.0 lighthouses are supposed to be more future proof as well.

Overall, price of them, I'd say get the Index. You're getting better resolution, better controllers, and the 2.0 hardware for a bit more than the original Vive, but far less than a full Vive Pro setup, which I think is still 1400? Plus you get the Half Life game for free :)

Thank you very much for that helpful and detailed insight. :)

I still have a DK2 that I can't use since years.
My desktop has a Phenom II that's not supported (anymore) by the Occulus RTE.
My notebook is also not supported anymore, as it is an (awful) Optimus system.
Yet, both configuration were indeed supported when the DK2 shipped.
And it worked fine. :)

Actually, I didn't want to buy a new VR system (which, in my case, also means a new PC).
But that HL:Alyx thing changed everything.
HL1+2 both meant truly outstanding gaming experiences to me.
And that trailer blew my mind.
I simply don't want to miss that one. :/

Not sure they'll have a good deal on the next Steam sale,
but I seriously consider to get the Index now...

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country)

Sounds unlikely. We're member of EEA, and have access to the inner market of EU. And absolutely everything else of hardware - including Vive who it looks like Index is based on (same base stations) - is here. But The Valve hardware specifically is not. I know of no other products in the same situation. Never heard of.

My guess is, Gabe traveled there once and also had food that poisoned him, so no Valve products for Norway!

Don't you have that delicious fermented fish?

Back on topic.
You said you basically own all new VR headsets, right?

Is the higher price of the Index vs. the Vive / Oculus justified?
Or in other words, for someone only going for ONE VR kit,
would you say going for the Index is worth the price?

Thanks for your input! :)

I own the Original Vive, Vive Pro and Index. Each has it's pros/cons. Vive is nice because you can use a lesser GPU to get nice FPS. Vive Pro got a lot clearer, but I was running into issues with screen tearing. Turns out it was an issue with having G-Sync monitors, which I believe they have since fixed (I don't know, because I ended up getting the Index which didn't have the problem.)
Now here's where it gets a little muddled. The Index and the Vive Pro both have the same resolution. But there are some advantages to the Index in comfort, one they ditched the velcro method of holding the facemask on and instead have a cool magnetic one. The downside of course is that you have to currently buy those from Valve, but I do like it better than the sweat soaker that the HTC comes with, and you can buy third party fake leather ones that are pretty nice, though if you sweat a lot, you might want to use the sponge, since then it should prevent sweat from dripping into it.

Please also note that the Index uses LCD vs OLED, so while the screen door effect (which I never noticed until watching a movie, now I can't unnotice it...) is a lot less on the Index, the black levels are off, so everything kind of looks like the contrast is up too high. This isn't all that noticeable in video games, but in the virtual theater, it kind of is. Any games where you need to read, I'd suggest either the Vive Pro or Index. It was pretty much too fuzzy for me on the original Vive. It's clearest on the Index, but definitely a huge improvement over the original Vive with the Pro.

Onto the controllers. Index vs Vive wands. Now, almost all games out there support the vive wands. Not as many support the Index controllers, which is a shame. You can program them of course, much like the Steam controllers. But as far as future proofing goes, I'd get the Index ones even if you're getting a Vive setup. Also, I believe the 2.0 lighthouses are supposed to be more future proof as well.

Overall, price of them, I'd say get the Index. You're getting better resolution, better controllers, and the 2.0 hardware for a bit more than the original Vive, but far less than a full Vive Pro setup, which I think is still 1400? Plus you get the Half Life game for free :)

Thank you very much for that helpful and detailed insight. :)

I still have a DK2 that I can't use since years.
My desktop has a Phenom II that's not supported (anymore) by the Occulus RTE.
My notebook is also not supported anymore, as it is an (awful) Optimus system.
Yet, both configuration were indeed supported when the DK2 shipped.
And it worked fine. :)

Actually, I didn't want to buy a new VR system (which, in my case, also means a new PC).
But that HL:Alyx thing changed everything.
HL1+2 both meant truly outstanding gaming experiences to me.
And that trailer blew my mind.
I simply don't want to miss that one. :/

Not sure they'll have a good deal on the next Steam sale,
but I seriously consider to get the Index now...

Yeah, at least the game is included with people who own the Index. I've read some people (who outwardly seem bitter) not believing that a new Half-Life game would be a platform / peripheral seller.

But then, who has gone out and bought a new monitor/graphics card/CPU upgrade just to play a game? I know for many of my upgrades, it was to get something working in Mame that wouldn't work on my previous CPU. Took YEARS for a capable CPU to play the Gauntlet arcade games that use a 3dfx chip, since it uses only raw CPU power for the emulation. These days my upgrades are "Can I play Elite: Dangerous in the best way possible!"

Oh, another side note on the Vive/Vive Pro/Index. The Pro and Index both require a Display Port. So if you're like me and have high resolution / refresh rate monitors that also require display ports, get a card with three of them. That's basically why I jumped from the 1080 to the 2080 :P

Well that is what being outside the EU gets you (combined with being a small country)

Sounds unlikely. We're member of EEA, and have access to the inner market of EU. And absolutely everything else of hardware - including Vive who it looks like Index is based on (same base stations) - is here. But The Valve hardware specifically is not. I know of no other products in the same situation. Never heard of.

My guess is, Gabe traveled there once and also had food that poisoned him, so no Valve products for Norway!

Don't you have that delicious fermented fish?

That's us their friendly eastern neighbour of Sweden that have the famous fish (surströmming) that you can find in every "let's puke" video on the Internet :)

Doesn't Iceland also have a couple of weaponizable fish delicacies?

There's airlines refusing to transport Swedish "Surströmming". :D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4867024.stm

So if you're like me and have high resolution / refresh rate monitors that also require display ports, get a card with three of them.

Or buy monitors that support MST / DisplayPort 1.2 daisy chaining. You could also get a DP hub, which is much cheaper than a new GPU. :)

So if you're like me and have high resolution / refresh rate monitors that also require display ports, get a card with three of them.

Or buy monitors that support MST / DisplayPort 1.2 daisy chaining. You could also get a DP hub, which is much cheaper than a new GPU. :)

Ha, I tried two different DP hubs, neither fully supported the headset+two 144hz monitors.