Creator of WebRTC now working on Google Stadia, Darksiders Genesis out plus more Stadia news

Do you see any Darksiders game out for Linux anywhere?

I see only failure:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/darksiders-2-confirmed-for-linux.4154

Sadly my concerns about Google Stadia and it's Linux influence confirmed: no good influence at all. Not only Stadia games has not been ported elsewhere to Linux, they even not working via Steam Proton...

* Destiny 2 - not working and even threaten that users that will try start game outside official supported platforms will be banned...
* RDR2 - not working
* Mortal Kombat 11 - not working

Even Vulkan do not received much... Only RDR2 officially has Vulkan support outside Stadia...

Sadly my concerns about Google Stadia and it's Linux influence confirmed: no good influence at all. Not only Stadia games has not been ported elsewhere to Linux, they even not working via Steam Proton...

* Destiny 2 - not working and even threaten that users that will try start game outside official supported platforms will be banned...
* RDR2 - not working
* Mortal Kombat 11 - not working

Even Vulkan do not received much... Only RDR2 officially has Vulkan support outside Stadia...

It's way to early to make any forms of determination regarding whether or not Stadia will have any influence for Linux gaming or uptake of Vulkan. These things will take months and years, not milliseconds.

We don't really know what Google are doing behind the scenes - they might have their own shader conversion technology to vulkan at the server level. I assume that at this early stage, the working relationship between a game development studio and Google's developers probably does not give much control over the codebase to the game development studio.

I could imagine a forked codebase, or something entirely maintained by Google's developers. It makes sense because a lot of games on their catalogue are older, and are not receiving so many patches anymore. Of course, I'm only making a hypothesis and can be off the mark.

But at any rate, IMO we can't assume the game development studio even sees the linux code, or has anything to do with it.

We don't really know what Google are doing behind the scenes - they might have their own shader conversion technology to vulkan at the server level. I assume that at this early stage, the working relationship between a game development studio and Google's developers probably does not give much control over the codebase to the game development studio.

I could imagine a forked codebase, or something entirely maintained by Google's developers. It makes sense because a lot of games on their catalogue are older, and are not receiving so many patches anymore. Of course, I'm only making a hypothesis and can be off the mark.

But at any rate, IMO we can't assume the game development studio even sees the linux code, or has anything to do with it.

Actually multiple game studios have talked about their Stadia development experience. The "shader conversion" is compiling HLSL to SPIR-V (Google is involved in this, and when Stadia was announced it became clear why).

Google do have their own interface library, but from what I hear that's very minimal code - and mostly a surface for Vulkan to render to I think. Google also have Stadia development boxes, with remote debugging access, that they lend to developers and provide support for. They mostly run GNU/Linux (a variant of Debian I'm pretty sure), but probably some tweaks to a kernel, and likely proprietary drivers from AMD (at the very least it would be amdvlk, maybe modified to the specifics rendering for streaming).

So the game developers are building a native GNU/Linux version of their games, but the target hardware platform is controlled by, and supported by, Google. Kind of like what Valve tried to do with their Steam Machines, but with less hardware variation and more direct developer support (kind of like a console in that regard).

That's also my understanding from reading the information available. Google recognise that most developers use Visual Studio on Windows, writing their shaders in HLSL, and target their tools to help those developers.

If Stadia llasts long term, I'm sure their API and development model support will expand.

I don't actually expect many native Linux releases to derive from Stadia, but am hopeful for Vulkan shader support for Windows games that we can run with Wine.

If it's such a standard stack, then releasing proper desktop version after all the Stadia work should be trivial.

I partially blame Google, for being "the best friend and the worst enemy" of Linux, like Aaron Seigo put it a while ago about Android. Same applies here. Google could do a lot more to help Linux gaming through Stadia, but they don't care.


Last edited by Shmerl on 8 December 2019 at 8:53 pm UTC

I don't think anyone assesses it wrongly. It's just another annoying thing from Google, who do this every time they deal with Linux. From Android (hello Surface flinger + bionic, where is Wayland + glibc?), to ChromeOS (hello some weird hybrid, where is normal desktop Linux stack?).

Now Stadia can be added to the list. I.e. hello backend targeted Linux releases, where is the benefit for proper desktop ones?

It's as if Google have this motto: "use Linux for our projects, but make sure to screw Linux users while doing it".


Last edited by Shmerl on 8 December 2019 at 9:22 pm UTC

Oh, and wayland + glibc, and a desktop interface in general, is really not designed for the requirements of mobile devices.

That's bunk. Sailfish uses it for mobile devices just fine. Wayland protocol is very explicitly designed to be versatile and allow any kind of interface interactions, from desktops to kiosks and transport cockpit interfaces. Android developers could adopt Wayland once it became well established, but they never cared about synergy with desktop Linux stack, so they never did anything about it. And that was my point above about Google in general.

That aside, Google's work on Stadia does bring the massive benefit of game developer experience with Vulkan.

That's why Aaron's description fits here well. Best friend because it helps Vulkan adoption and Linux expertise. Worst enemy, because such developers still don't care about us, Linux users.


Last edited by Shmerl on 8 December 2019 at 10:50 pm UTC

So no, it's not an easy task to switch to Wayland for Android.

Not very easy, but pretty doable for someone like Google. I.e. turn Surface Flinger into proper Wayland compositor, problem solved. All this is not about technical difficulties, but about general care to avoid creating rifts and rather aiming for synergy. Google are doing a very poor job at this, likely because they very rarely care.


Last edited by Shmerl on 8 December 2019 at 11:36 pm UTC

I'm a bit confused about the nature of Stadia. Is there more to it for Linux gamers than just using Linux at Google's end? If there isn't, it's fine with me---please don't think I'm trying to knock coverage of it here. I'm just feeling an excitement around Stadia here that I'm not feeling myself, so I figure I must have missed something along the way.

No, it's not just because it uses Linux on Google's servers, the entire point is that it's yet another option to play popular titles on Linux. Especially true for multiplayer titles (like Destiny 2). If it was just server stuff, we wouldn't cover it past their initial announcement. We're all about Linux + Gaming of course ;)

I see it on a comparable level to Steam Play at the very least. In comparison to Steam Play though, games on Stadia should "just work" where as Steam Play is a gamble unless you specifically seek-out titles that others have already been the guinea pig for to let you know if it works at all.

Well, then I guess technically playing games in a Windows VM running in Linux is playing games on Linux.

I'm sure you're trying to make a point here, but it's not sticking. Windows VM is just playing on Windows. Stadia is not. It's fully Linux. You're on Linux, playing a game through the browser that's also being run from Linux. Games on Stadia need to be ported to Linux/Vulkan, so there's developers going to be getting more Linux porting knowledge at the same time.

Perhaps your point was more that you dislike Stadia coverage here? If that's the case, I'm not bothered. I write about what I want and others may be interested to know - it's how GOL has always and always will be run. Gaming on Linux, not "game on Linux this one specific way" ;)

I was simply challenging your statement, "...the entire point is that it's yet another option to play popular titles on Linux." The paragraph that statement comes from seems to be downplaying the fact that Stadia is running Linux on the back end. Then your reply to me seems to be up-playing the fact that Stadia is running Linux on the back end.

I don't have any problems with Stadia coverage here. One could also say mobile gaming is gaming on Linux. It's your site, of course you'll run it however you like. Sometimes justifications aren't necessary.

If it's such a standard stack, then releasing proper desktop version after all the Stadia work should be trivial.

I partially blame Google, for being "the best friend and the worst enemy" of Linux, like Aaron Seigo put it a while ago about Android. Same applies here. Google could do a lot more to help Linux gaming through Stadia, but they don't care.

At the moment it is a fairly standard Linux stack, but the intention is to use the server side heavily and with innovation going forward. So from their perspective, Linux gaming means using Stadia.

I was simply challenging your statement, "...the entire point is that it's yet another option to play popular titles on Linux." The paragraph that statement comes from seems to be downplaying the fact that Stadia is running Linux on the back end. Then your reply to me seems to be up-playing the fact that Stadia is running Linux on the back end.

I don't have any problems with Stadia coverage here. One could also say mobile gaming is gaming on Linux. It's your site, of course you'll run it however you like. Sometimes justifications aren't necessary.

Seems more then you misunderstood my previous comments. I was not downplaying anything about Stadia being Linux on the back end. I was trying making a point: if that is all it was, it would not be a fit for "Gaming On Linux" the website, the point is that the service works to play games on a Linux desktop/notebook making it relevant.