Microsoft Teams is now available on Linux

Quoting: BielFPsYes, which is why Phil Spencer is "right" in the business point of view for defending MS lock-in (even if it's bad for anyone else).

Now if we talk about Apple, I think they were stupid to come with an exclusive api without having a big base of developers already using it before.

Anti-competitive tricks is not the right way to do business. It's the dirty way. I.e. proper way is competition on merit. In fact, anti-competitive behavior should be prevented by proper anti-trust (competition laws), because it's damaging to the progress and market in general.

And yes, I agree Apple are even worse. They are one of the most disgusting examples of lock-in proponents today.

Quoting: Cyril

Quoting: WorMzyMeh, uses gtk3. I'll keep running teams at work on a Windows client.

Why you don't like GTK3? What would you prefer instead?

Mostly historical reasons -- I'm still bitter that the gnome devs just unceremoniously threw gnome2 out the window and said that everyone should use the monstrosity that is gnome3 instead.
I also particularly don't like Gnome devs hostile attitude towards end users who don't want to use their defaults, their tendency to break themes every six months (allegedly they've stopped doing this now?), and them telling application devs that they should only have code for gtk/gnome-specific "features" (instead of coding for multiple DEs), etc..

What I prefer instead is anything that isn't gtk3. Like I said, I'd rather run a Windows application than a native Linux gtk3 app.

Nice, but they could port Direct X to linux hahaha

Quoting: WorMzy

Quoting: Cyril

Quoting: WorMzyMeh, uses gtk3. I'll keep running teams at work on a Windows client.

Why you don't like GTK3? What would you prefer instead?

Mostly historical reasons -- I'm still bitter that the gnome devs just unceremoniously threw gnome2 out the window and said that everyone should use the monstrosity that is gnome3 instead.
I also particularly don't like Gnome devs hostile attitude towards end users who don't want to use their defaults, their tendency to break themes every six months (allegedly they've stopped doing this now?), and them telling application devs that they should only have code for gtk/gnome-specific "features" (instead of coding for multiple DEs), etc..

What I prefer instead is anything that isn't gtk3. Like I said, I'd rather run a Windows application than a native Linux gtk3 app.

I too can't stand Gnome3. So instead I use Mate and occasionally Cinnamon . . . both of which, I believe, use gtk3. So I feel you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater there.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: WorMzy

Quoting: Cyril

Quoting: WorMzyMeh, uses gtk3. I'll keep running teams at work on a Windows client.

Why you don't like GTK3? What would you prefer instead?

Mostly historical reasons -- I'm still bitter that the gnome devs just unceremoniously threw gnome2 out the window and said that everyone should use the monstrosity that is gnome3 instead.
I also particularly don't like Gnome devs hostile attitude towards end users who don't want to use their defaults, their tendency to break themes every six months (allegedly they've stopped doing this now?), and them telling application devs that they should only have code for gtk/gnome-specific "features" (instead of coding for multiple DEs), etc..

What I prefer instead is anything that isn't gtk3. Like I said, I'd rather run a Windows application than a native Linux gtk3 app.

I too can't stand Gnome3. So instead I use Mate and occasionally Cinnamon . . . both of which, I believe, use gtk3. So I feel you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater there.

Yeah sorry WorMzy but I fail to understand why you don't like GTK3 itself. GTK2/3 and Gnome2/3 are different things.
Just because you hate the Gnome devs, you hate GTK3 too?

I hate the Gnome 3 desktop too (it feel like a tablet or something, so boring to not have many configurations available at start etc), I use XFCE. But maybe I don't know some important things about it, and I'm not a dev myself.
Or rather, why Qt is better than GTK3?

This is good news. I use Teams at work with Trello to communicate progress on projects with some of the guys. We are too cheap for JIRA. Ive been forced to use the web client, which only works in Firefox, which ain't a browser that I use for anything else, so this eliminates that. I'm happy about this.

Quoting: fleskI'm not a .NET developer, so I'm not an authority on the subject, but I know our Microsoft teams are developing most of their applications with .NET Core deployed on Linux these days, so I assume it has most/all of the features that .NET has.

Not all the way there yet, but they are getting much closer. The current Windows-only .NET is going away with the next, fully cross-platform, release:
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/introducing-net-5/

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: Liam DaweYes, we do need to care. Same as we need to care about any application/game a lot of people use, that isn't available easily on Linux. Every single one is a barrier that can prevent people from sticking with Linux. We can make as many big steps on performance, ease of install and updating and so on - all junk unless what people want and regularly use is on Linux. Steps like this are important. Anyone who disagrees, frankly has their head firmly in a bubble.

As a Linux user, I actually find such examples damaging. I look at the IM situation globally, and it's not a Linux specific issue. E-mail managed to push through the federated approach, and only because it happened years ago, we are now lucky we can send e-mail from any server to any server.

IM is a horror story in comparison. Walled garden servers and services grow like mushrooms, and almost none of them can talk to each other. Attempts to advance federated approaches (XMPP and now Matrix) are met with total indifference from the greedy owners of the walled options.

Regardless of the issues surrounding collab/IM clients like this, my point was still pretty clear. If a lot of people use them, we need them available on Linux and I'm sure you fully understand this.

While my attitude to Microsoft has definitely softened over the last decade, and I do see it as a positive not being forced to use Windows for 1 or 2 applications that may have been forced on you by your client / employer, I will remain hugely skeptical of their 'love linux' motives until I stop hearing about this sh*t.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: WorMzy

Quoting: Cyril

Quoting: WorMzyMeh, uses gtk3. I'll keep running teams at work on a Windows client.

Why you don't like GTK3? What would you prefer instead?

Mostly historical reasons -- I'm still bitter that the gnome devs just unceremoniously threw gnome2 out the window and said that everyone should use the monstrosity that is gnome3 instead.
I also particularly don't like Gnome devs hostile attitude towards end users who don't want to use their defaults, their tendency to break themes every six months (allegedly they've stopped doing this now?), and them telling application devs that they should only have code for gtk/gnome-specific "features" (instead of coding for multiple DEs), etc..

What I prefer instead is anything that isn't gtk3. Like I said, I'd rather run a Windows application than a native Linux gtk3 app.

I too can't stand Gnome3. So instead I use Mate and occasionally Cinnamon . . . both of which, I believe, use gtk3. So I feel you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater there.

My view is that it isn't bathwater, it's epoxy resin. The two things are too tightly tied together -- GTK3 is developed by gnome for gnome. They don't care if cinnamon breaks every six months because they changed all the library functions, so long as gnome keeps working. I don't want to deal with gnome's shit, so I don't use gtk3. I'm not attached to that "baby", so I'm not going to waste my time trying to separate it from the "bathwater".

Quoting: CyrilOr rather, why Qt is better than GTK3?

I don't know, and I don't care which is better, and I don't want to get into that debate; I just don't allow gtk3 on my systems and actively avoid applications that use it (unless I can recompile them to use something else).