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PayPalSad news today Linux gamers, Psyonix emailed us directly to make sure we saw the news that they're officially ending support of Rocket League on Linux and macOS.
Their published statement on this was quite short and didn't really explain much:
As we continue to upgrade Rocket League with new technologies, it is no longer viable for us to maintain support for the macOS and Linux (SteamOS) platforms. As a result, the final patch for the macOS and Linux versions of the game will be in March. This update will disable online functionality (such as in-game purchases) for players on macOS and Linux, but offline features including Local Matches, and splitscreen play will still be accessible.
If you purchased Rocket League for Mac or Linux on Steam, the game will still work with full functionality when installed and played on a computer running Windows 7 or newer.
So the Linux and macOS versions will still be there, but left old and online play will be disabled. Not good. Not good at all and as a huge Rocket League fan I'm not pleased—annoyed you might say.
This "new technologies" bit was interesting, perhaps they've decided to go DirectX 12 with an Unreal Engine upgrade? At this point we can only speculate with so little information. In the expanded support page, for Linux they mentioned playing Rocket League with Steam Play Proton is possible although they will not be supporting it.
When Psyonix became part of Epic Games back in May last year, many speculated that Rocket League would not only drop Linux support but also leave Steam. I didn't think either would happen but here we are, Psyonix has still never said they will continue to sell the game on Steam only that it would see "continued support". Originally, I thought meant it would go free to play, but with this move it seems a little more likely it will move over to the Epic Store which doesn't support Linux.
Update: Psyonix are now suggesting to request a refund from them on their support portal.
Update 2 - 24/01: Psyonix are now telling us "macOS and Linux players can reach out directly to Steam to request refunds and they will be honored. In these cases, Steam will make an exception to their 2 hours limit rule.". Their own support ticket team are now also saying to ask Steam for the refund, although Valve has denied my own refund twice.
In situations like this, Valve ideally need a better support system in place or at least an option of platform removal to get around the usual way. As we end up going in circles.
Update 3: After making their PR team aware what was going on with the refund situation, they've now released a statement on Reddit. Refunds will be accepted on Steam now, plus they gave the reason behind removing Linux and macOS support.
It's what I suspected as written above, they're upgrading to a higher version of Direct X which is a problem as the "macOS and Linux native clients depend on our DX9 implementation for their OpenGL renderer to function" and they're not willing to put resources into Vulkan/Metal for Linux/macOS when the combined player-base was apparently "0.3%" of the active total and when "viable workarounds exist" with Wine being mentioned.
They could have gone for Vulkan though to get Windows + Linux (and Stadia) and possibly even macOS with MoltenVK. It's a shame another company decided to stick with a proprietary API. That said, it may not have been possible if they're on quite an old version of Unreal Engine.
If you do get a refund for it, be sure you use that Steam Wallet funding for a developer that does support Linux. Make it count.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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As someone who knows little-to-nothing about the "under the hood" parts of Linux, how likely is this to be working on Steam Play in the future? It's the only cross-platform game that my friends on the other side of the country play together and I would rather keep playing with them than get a refund.
However, if the outlook is not good, I would rather get my refund now then wait. Rip the band-aid off, as it were.
Not sure about DX11 and how well wine works with that.
Also as some have pointed out , if they implement Easy Anti Cheat (EAC) you can consider it dead. That cannot be run on Linux and attempts to do so may be seen as cheating and land you a ban.
Refund and if it works with Proton later get it back on a sale.
Only bad part you can only refund base game , not DLC and other stuff you may have bought.
Seems to be a few people in this topic getting the DLC refunded too. I assume any microtransactions can't be refunded though.
I initially got in touch to get a refund, but then I realised that I got the game free with my Steam controller, so there didn't seem much point continuing with that process.
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It's Epic Games, not Tencent, Tencent have 40% of Epic Games.
Your fooling yourself if you don't understand how big of a string they can pull. All of this BS with epic games started after the tencent money started flowing in.
Are you calling Riot Games, Supercell, Ubisoft and Activision 'Tencent' everytime too?Yes. Tencent owns Riot Games, and owns like 85% of Supercell, and is the second largest stakeholder of Ubisoft. You don't find it interesting watching the sheer number of companies tencent are reaching their hands into? Their influence cannot be overlooked.
And Tencent is a platinum member of the Linux Foundation, has his own Linux distro (https://cloud.tencent.com/document/product/213/38027) and QQ for Linux (https://im.qq.com/linuxqq/index.html), China is LITERALLY forbidding Windows and OS X computers in the administration, step by step, stop your antisocialist bullshit ffs.
It's Psyonix the ones who decided to sellout. But somehow they aren't being blammed for all of this lol.
What did I say which had anything to do with being antisocialist? Or pro-[insert anything political here]?
It was merely a comment on the reach of tencent, which goes beyond what most people likely appreciate on the surface level of the companies they buy from.
Your incredibly defensive stance and aggressive [shall I put you down as pro-authoritarian then?] political shouts, combined with your personal avatar suggest you are politicising things unnecessarily, and have an agenda yourself.
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How about we keep it on topic and don't name call others, let's try that. I will remove anyone who does after this point. Please report posts using the little flag icon, if people be dicks. If someone is a dick, don't quote them, report them and ignore them. Quoting toxic posts only makes moderation take up more time, think before quoting.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 28 January 2020 at 11:18 pm UTC
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 28 January 2020 at 11:18 pm UTC
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Comandante Ñoñardo Jan 28, 2020
In the meantime, Ubisoft updated Rainbow Six Siege to VULKAN.
That is the right technical path to follow for Windows games.. So, obviously, Psyonix is having bad intentions.
Rainbow Six Siege currently uses the DirectX 11 API which was released more than 10 years ago. While it still delivers great performance, the graphics driver requires significant amounts of CPU processing. Moreover, some features supported by modern GPUs are not compatible with older APIs such as DirectX 11. (We also evaluated DirectX 12, but our internal tests show better CPU performance under Vulkan.)
That is the right technical path to follow for Windows games.. So, obviously, Psyonix is having bad intentions.
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when "viable workarounds exist" with Wine being mentioned.
This is exactly what I predicted and why proton is not a good thing. It gives devs the option to just be lazy: "Just use proton. Oh it doesn't work? Well we don't actually support it, so tough. Oh, the problem occurred 2 hours and 1 minute into the game? I guess no refund for you."
This is exactly what I predicted and why proton is not a good thing. It gives devs the option to just be lazy: "Just use proton. Oh it doesn't work? Well we don't actually support it, so tough. Oh, the problem occurred 2 hours and 1 minute into the game? I guess no refund for you."
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when "viable workarounds exist" with Wine being mentioned.
This is exactly what I predicted and why proton is not a good thing. It gives devs the option to just be lazy: "Just use proton. Oh it doesn't work? Well we don't actually support it, so tough. Oh, the problem occurred 2 hours and 1 minute into the game? I guess no refund for you."
On the other hand, a lazy dev is not likely to produce a port anyway, so it won't make much of a difference.
As for the refunds, we now have proof that you can get them for these special cases, even if time is exceeded by a large margin.
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As for the refunds, we now have proof that you can get them for these special cases, even if time is exceeded by a large margin.
I guess the publisher wrote a mail to Valve to allow this. I wonder if Valve is keeping its 30% in this case.
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a lazy dev is not likely to produce a port anyway, so it won't make much of a difference.
Well, for example, we got Papers, Please on Linux, but not Return Of Obra Dinn. I'd bet that proton is the reason why.
As for the refunds, we now have proof that you can get them for these special cases, even if time is exceeded by a large margin.I'm not talking about these special cases where the dev has specifically told valve to allow refunds after 2 hours, I'm talking about buying a game to run it under proton. What happens if Doom 2016 crashes due to some wine bug at 2:01? What about a game that isn't on proton's "supported" list but which the dev has told me "just use proton. But it's not officially supported"?
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What about a game that isn't on proton's "supported" list but which the dev has told me "just use proton. But it's not officially supported"?
The you politely reply that proton is too much of a risk to spend money on and move on to play something else. I have more Linux games in my backlog than I will ever have time to play. There is no "need" for proton.
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Well, for example, we got Papers, Please on Linux, but not Return Of Obra Dinn. I'd bet that proton is the reason why.
... or too much hazzle and too few bucks.
I agree Proton is a problem for native Linux gaming, but we shouldn't pretend it's the only one.
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when "viable workarounds exist" with Wine being mentioned.
This is exactly what I predicted and why proton is not a good thing. It gives devs the option to just be lazy: "Just use proton. Oh it doesn't work? Well we don't actually support it, so tough. Oh, the problem occurred 2 hours and 1 minute into the game? I guess no refund for you."
I definitely get this attitude, but I suppose you have to think about the end-game, which is perfect, seamless support for all Windows games, on Linux. Might be years away, but as an end-game, it's a pretty special goal. And if that "seamless" support is dependant on using Vulkan, so much the better.
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appetrosyan Jan 30, 2020
Again, Proton is not the answer for online games.
In fact, what is really sad is that even native builds are no guarantee... We just got another proof of that (along with Natural Selection 2). Due to the rate of updates involved in those games, Linux is really vulnerable when it comes to online games.
Fortunately, I'm not a big fan of online games and got my copy of RL when I bought one of my Steam Controllers... When it wasn't even available on Linux... And that's another juicy chapter of RL on Linux... Oh well... We saw it coming, but it's not less frustrating.
Could the "unpopular" decisions Psyonix made lately turned out to be their downfall? The game might still be popular, but are the incomes as good as it once was? Could it play a part as to why they decided to drop MacOS and Linux? That's the usual pattern...
I think the two main reasons are:
they want RTX and they want anti cheat. For an online Game, you make money by either expanding your audience, or continuously milking your current audience. The former is a lot easier to do, so if say most reviews complain about basic graphics (it's a simple game, why wouldn't it), or a cheating problem, it's way cheaper to sacrifice two smaller platforms but expand on Windows, rather than support anyone else.
It's an understandable decision, though a regrettable one, and certainly not the worst they could have made: I prefer it not being on Linux anymore to it being riddled with MTs. That's also probably why PUBG and the less enjoyable counterpart might never come to Linux. Continuous testing for a very marginal improvement in market share. Of course not an issue, if Proton were able to work with those features.
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slaapliedje Jan 30, 2020
I suppose I should refund this, I've owned it for a long time, but never really played it beyond 'cool, it's Ballblazer for the 21st Century.' Then proceeded to play it instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXX_g7Au-5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXX_g7Au-5w
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appetrosyan Jan 30, 2020
Well, for example, we got Papers, Please on Linux, but not Return Of Obra Dinn. I'd bet that proton is the reason why.
... or too much hazzle and too few bucks.
I agree Proton is a problem for native Linux gaming, but we shouldn't pretend it's the only one.
I respectfully disagree. Proton is just one avenue for Gauging interest in the GNU.Linux platform. Proton allows us to play the games we want, on the platform we want on, without worrying about the business decisions made by the horrible publishers that hold the game devs hostage. It costs them nothing; it promotes FOSS technologies indirectly; and it directly allows people to do native-like ports with ease.
The real problem for Native gaming by a stretch is Linux's small and diminishing market share; lack of fully opensource game engines, that keep native games from going extinct; Lack of Linux-exclusive cool tech; lack of authority of Linux design sensibilities; growing leniency towards abhorrent business strategies. IF Proton belongs to the same list, it only does so because most people think that SDL is somehow better.
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appetrosyan Jan 30, 2020
I've updated santa's naughty list.
Liam, would you let us also add the quoted reason for removal? I'm really curious how many times was "viable alternatives" mentioned in dropping support...
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I can add it, sure, we all know that Wine is not the reason they did this though.I've updated santa's naughty list.
Liam, would you let us also add the quoted reason for removal? I'm really curious how many times was "viable alternatives" mentioned in dropping support...
Edit: Have started adding to it, will take time to go over the others. Also enabled the Cite plugin for Mediawiki to make it nicer to link to sources.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 31 January 2020 at 9:50 am UTC
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think about the end-game, which is perfect, seamless support for all Windows games, on Linux.
Firstly, that's not my end-game. I'm not particularly interested in running windows games on Linux. I'd rather have Linux games.
Secondly, the idea of having perfect, seamless support for all Windows games is a pipe dream that will never happen unless Microsoft opens up the relevant tech (directx, win32 api or whatever the modern equivalent is), which they will absolutely never do. Even if they did you're only going to get up tp ~95% compatibility. Without the specs (at least) for these techs being open it's always going to be a reverse-engineering effort where you're playing whack-a-mole with new versions of APIs. If you think that this is a reasonable goal you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
You're not going to get perfect support for all windows games under wine. Not ever. This is the nature of emulation. 100% is not achievable, even with open specs and non-moving targets. Attempting it with windows is bold and commendable but ultimately futile and laughable. Wine can't even run the ~20 year old stuff that I want to run.
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Keeps getting refused, Whats the link to do a ticket to valve ?Account details -> Purchase history -> rocket league -> I have a question about this purchase -> write to valve
<3
Did that, asking for a refund on the game and all Rocket League DLC I had.
Unfortunately, they took 3 days to get back to me, and refunded the game only, not the 7 or 8 purchases of DLC I had for Rocket League (which was way more $ than the initial game purchase price).
Also, I had mentioned in my initial support ticket that refunding to my steam wallet was preferred, so I could pay it forward to developers who supported Linux and stood by their commitments.
The responder noted in their reply that they could not refund to my initial form of payment, due to the purchase age, and could only refund to my wallet...No shit, really? Isn't that what I asked for, Valve?
I don't think he/she even really read my ticket to begin with.
Am still waiting on a response, Did the ticket Thursday so fingers crossed!
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think about the end-game, which is perfect, seamless support for all Windows games, on Linux.
Firstly, that's not my end-game. I'm not particularly interested in running windows games on Linux. I'd rather have Linux games.
That's the point. Once SteamPlay hits its visionary goal, there won't be any distinction.
As for the rest of your post, it's weirdly pessimistic. There are literally thousands of games I can already "play like native" and this is only the first year. In fact, there are quite a few titles that run better on Linux now than Windows 10.
Sure, the goal is visionary. And it isn't just about wine. It's about Valve and others encouraging more open development so that future titles aren't really "Windows" games anymore. It'll take years, perhaps decades, but look at the impact Vulkan has already had in such a short time. Look at DXVK that followed closely. Look at the maturity of things like SDL. It's all coming together nicely, I think.
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appetrosyan Feb 3, 2020
think about the end-game, which is perfect, seamless support for all Windows games, on Linux.
Firstly, that's not my end-game. I'm not particularly interested in running windows games on Linux. I'd rather have Linux games.
Secondly, the idea of having perfect, seamless support for all Windows games is a pipe dream that will never happen unless Microsoft opens up the relevant tech (directx, win32 api or whatever the modern equivalent is), which they will absolutely never do. Even if they did you're only going to get up tp ~95% compatibility. Without the specs (at least) for these techs being open it's always going to be a reverse-engineering effort where you're playing whack-a-mole with new versions of APIs. If you think that this is a reasonable goal you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
You're not going to get perfect support for all windows games under wine. Not ever. This is the nature of emulation. 100% is not achievable, even with open specs and non-moving targets. Attempting it with windows is bold and commendable but ultimately futile and laughable. Wine can't even run the ~20 year old stuff that I want to run.
This comment highlights a common misconception that plagues all of these discussions.. For the LAST TIME, WINE = WINE IS NOT an EMULATOR.
Reverse engineering, can and often does work better than having access to the source code, provided enough dedication and good enough platforms: nblood vs blood fresh supply is a good example of a reverse engineered lovingly crafted engine doing better than a commercial port.
Wine can't run things that are 20years old, may be up to the projects themselves, and it's highly likely that windows 10 can't either. At this stage the only thing that does actually make more sense to do is to think of the distant future. Apple just deprecated 90% of all games that have a Mac version, because of stubbornly removing 32-bit libraries. A similar thing can and might very well happen on Windows, and on Linux, we have averted the catastrophe once, we can avert it again. I'm positive that at some point, the libraries will be deprecated so badly that we'll simply be bundling them as part of retro gaming, much like we do now for the 8/16 bit stuff. This, you will never be able to do, if you've never ventured into emulation.
A pipe dream it might be, but I'm happy with the vertical slice of games that can reliably be played through wine. I'm also a bit unhappy with the state of "native" games with proprietary licenses.
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