Metro Exodus is now live on Steam and Deep Silver say it's coming to Linux

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: KelvinhboI wish they would just make sure the game runs well with Proton instead of focusing resources on a native port that would surely be abandoned in a couple months.

If that's how you feel, why are you even using Linux? Go back to Windows. It's one thing to want an old game to work in Proton; one that will likely never see a native version. But you actively wish that a publisher who has announced a native port should abandon it and concentrate on the Windows port. Completely blows my mind, and again proves to me that a lot of 'Linux' gamers only care about their latest fix rather than advancing gaming on Linux.

Native ports, announcements of such, etc, should be praised, supported and encouraged. And in the long run, the use of Proton, while necessary now, should be discouraged. Particularly for new games. It definitely has its place for older games, though.

I have been using Linux since Red Hat 9 kernel 2.2 buddy, you are the one that should be going back to Windows if you are this delusional. Almost every Linux native port that I have tried over the years have performed significantly worst than on Windows, only exceptions are Valve native ports and Feral's recent conversions.

About 90% of the Linux native ports I own have been abandoned for years, Examples: Both Borderlands, both Metros, Bioshock Infinite, Dying Light, etc... the list goes on and on, at this point you can get double the performance, on some cases even more when you force your native ports to run on Proton.

Even a game that wasn't abandoned until recently "Rocket League", performed absolutely horrible on the Linux native port, I could get around 120 fps on Linux, same settings on Windows gave me 250 fps, same settings on Linux with Proton D9VK gave me 250 fps.

Maintaining different ports of games is expensive and time consuming for developers, with this magical little software called Proton all of these hassles are bypassed and everybody wins, with some tweaking I can get almost the same performance as on Windows with Proton, on a few games even better and more stable, maybe when the market share of Linux gamers is over 50% then we can start talking about native ports.

You're literally complaining about games that were ported at a time before Vulkan existed and by external companies to add to that. Which from a customer's point of view it's totally understandable that you as a Linux user got an inferior game.

On the other hand though keep in mind things aren't the same as just a few years ago, Vulkan has clearly shown it's capable of delivering very good performance and many engines now support it cross platform, thus making a native much more feasible for a developer and can be done in house which lessens the costs.

Wine/Proton is very good but it still has its' fair share of issues. Multiplayer games are still largely a no go due to anti cheat and other popular issues such as Windows Media Foundation are also present. By encouraging devs to support Proton instead of a native port basically you're telling them to keep using DirectX and other non-cross platform technologies.

I'd say this is a better time than ever to support Linux natively.


Last edited by Avehicle7887 on 16 February 2020 at 5:19 pm UTC

Quoting: Avehicle7887[...]Multiplayer games are still largely a no go due to anti cheat and other popular issues such as Windows Media Foundation are also present. [...]

I'd say this is a better time than ever to support Linux natively.

There aren't any hackers in Red Dead Redemption 2 on Stadia. Windows cannot say the same. There are obvious technical reasons for this but AAA multiplayer on Linux is there natively from Developers that put in the work.

Darksiders Genesis plays cut scenes just fine on Stadia. Proton cannot without media framework fixes. A Linux native solution exists. Developer-imposed limitation in the Windows build.



Cross play remains the biggest hurdle in this space.

I think it's important we remember there is no one size fits all approach. All have their ups and downs, both native and Proton. However, I absolutely think encouraging Linux support is the way to go, otherwise as others have said you're basically telling developers to continue only caring about Direct X and Windows only APIs. Even Rich G who used to work for Valve, said himself Proton is nothing more than a "band-aid" https://twitter.com/richgel999/status/1221569522618028032?s=19

That said, please try to respect the opinions of others, i do not want to see anyone telling another to "go back to x". If I see more of that warnings will be issued and posts will be removed as that's a level of toxic bullshit we will not have here.

Quoting: KelvinhboI could go on and on and on, but you people don't care about facts.
Damn! I guess they were right about the stupidity of the purist Linux community, no wonder Windows users are turned away when they encounter ya'll, I'm getting turned away myself from just interacting here and I've been using Linux for 20+ years, Admins please ban my account I'm done trying to reason with the unreasonable.

6/10 rage-bait


Last edited by SirLootALot on 16 February 2020 at 5:58 pm UTC

Speaking of the Linux port quality of certain games, I would disagree.
For Borderlands 2 I tried the Windows version in Wine and the Linux port... and the Linux port is really better on my PC.
I have a more stable FPS and a better use of my CPU.
I don't know how it runs with DXVK etc but it's not black and white.

Quoting: LinuxwarperThe dev I mentioned who said Stadia and Linux is far to different.

Not sure what he is talking about, one liner answers using terms like "SKU" don't instill confidence that he knows the subject matter (what kind of developers say "SKU"?).

Also, what kind of NDA?

QuoteThe other question not only doesn’t have a quick answer, it would also break NDA’s to answer fully.

Does Stadia impose NDA on developers? Never heard about it before.

There is a video from one Bethesda developer on the other hand, which says explicitly, that targeting Stadia is very close to regular Linux, and he even explicitly recommends to make the game run on regular Linux first, when developing for Staida. And he didn't say anything about NDA. So something is fishy about the above answer like "yeah, it's hard and so on and so forth, but I won't explain why because NDA".


Last edited by Shmerl on 16 February 2020 at 6:21 pm UTC

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: KelvinhboI wish they would just make sure the game runs well with Proton instead of focusing resources on a native port that would surely be abandoned in a couple months.

If that's how you feel, why are you even using Linux? Go back to Windows.

Please stop that nonsense. I agree with your point that Linux releases should be supported, though sending someone away because he doesn't agree is really just a childish response.
There are lots of various reasons to use Linux and how to use Linux, all of them are valid and all of them should be accepted. You know, freedom and things..


Last edited by jens on 16 February 2020 at 6:19 pm UTC

Quoting: Liam DaweI think it's important we remember there is no one size fits all approach. All have their ups and downs, both native and Proton. However, I absolutely think encouraging Linux support is the way to go, otherwise as others have said you're basically telling developers to continue only caring about Direct X and Windows only APIs. Even Rich G who used to work for Valve, said himself Proton is nothing more than a "band-aid" https://twitter.com/richgel999/status/1221569522618028032?s=19

That said, please try to respect the opinions of others, i do not want to see anyone telling another to "go back to x". If I see more of that warnings will be issued and posts will be removed as that's a level of toxic bullshit we will not have here.

I think it's the other way around, if developers just focus on Vulkan instead of Direct X we automatically get native ports for Windows and Linux. Doom 2016, Rage 2, Wolfenstein all run on Vulkan and all run exactly the same on Windows and Linux(Proton), Feral does make good ports, but they take a long time to release them, Metro Exodus have been out for a year, and it's now they are talking about a Linux port, there is no need for any of this, when developers just make sure games work well on Proton from the start.

Proton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

Quoting: KelvinhboProton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

They are already making native Linux port for Stadia, so this argument makes no sense.

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Liam DaweI think it's important we remember there is no one size fits all approach. All have their ups and downs, both native and Proton. However, I absolutely think encouraging Linux support is the way to go, otherwise as others have said you're basically telling developers to continue only caring about Direct X and Windows only APIs. Even Rich G who used to work for Valve, said himself Proton is nothing more than a "band-aid" https://twitter.com/richgel999/status/1221569522618028032?s=19

That said, please try to respect the opinions of others, i do not want to see anyone telling another to "go back to x". If I see more of that warnings will be issued and posts will be removed as that's a level of toxic bullshit we will not have here.

I think it's the other way around, if developers just focus on Vulkan instead of Direct X we automatically get native ports for Windows and Linux. Doom 2016, Rage 2, Wolfenstein all run on Vulkan and all run exactly the same on Windows and Linux(Proton), Feral does make good ports, but they take a long time to release them, Metro Exodus have been out for a year, and it's now they are talking about a Linux port, there is no need for any of this, when developers just make sure games work well on Proton from the start.

Proton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

This is a repeating circular argument at this point, with strong opinions on both sides. I firmly think entirely relying on a compatibility layer that seeks to emulate closed APIs is a bad idea. A single point of failure, all eggs in one basket. It's not sustainable. The more people rely on it the less developers give any kind of attention to Linux, open APIs and cross-platform tech and we go even further into the backs of their minds.

Honestly, I find it amazing that people are arguing for Proton on an article where the publisher said they working on support - ridiculous.

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboProton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

They are already making native Linux port for Stadia, so this argument makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure they are just running the games over Vulkan and calling that a native game, or do you actually think they are re-writing the whole games and making Linux exclusive binaries?

That's the only time a Linux native game makes sense, when you write the game from the ground up to take advantage of the low level API's Linux offers. Only if the market share of Linux Desktop was high enough that would make sense.

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboProton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

They are already making native Linux port for Stadia, so this argument makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure they are just running the games over Vulkan and calling that a native game, or do you actually think they are re-writing the whole games and making Linux exclusive binaries?

That's the only time a Linux native game makes sense, when you write the game from the ground up to take advantage of the low level API's Linux offers. Only if the market share of Linux Desktop was high enough that would make sense.

Stadia is Debian, it's quite literally Linux. To be on Stadia, you need Vulkan AND Linux.

The developers of DOOM made their Stadia version (weirdly not live until later this year) using Ubuntu FYI. There's a video of them talking about it - look at from 21:00 for Ubuntu.


Last edited by Liam Dawe on 16 February 2020 at 6:50 pm UTC

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: Comandante ÑoñardoSadly, the Steam regional price for Argentina is 4 times more expensive than the Xbox Game Pass version.

But with game pass you don't own the game, you have to pay monthly in order to get access to it, doesn't it? More over, how you will be able to download this game with game pass when you need Microsoft Store in order to play it? I don't understand your comparison...

Either way, right now I see it on Steam for $899,40 ($1160,23 with taxes). For a AAA game with native support is quite cheap IMO.

899 US$? What? In Brazil is 10 US$.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboProton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

They are already making native Linux port for Stadia, so this argument makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure they are just running the games over Vulkan and calling that a native game, or do you actually think they are re-writing the whole games and making Linux exclusive binaries?

That's the only time a Linux native game makes sense, when you write the game from the ground up to take advantage of the low level API's Linux offers. Only if the market share of Linux Desktop was high enough that would make sense.

Actually there's a good deal of Stadia development target information out there - and yes, they are native builds of games.
Much of game engines is already platform agnostic, but the real kicker is if you have to change the basic structure to accommodate a different rendering backend. Khronos has done a lot of work to make Vulkan very flexible, so that shouldn't be too painful.
Shaders have been a problem, but Google plugged the missing gap by investing in a HLSL to SPIR-V compiler.

Of course, Stadia is a single hardware target - and that will no doubt make QA and risk assessment easier.

Ok. So a game like Destiny 2 have been completely re-written for Linux and is not running over Vulkan for Stadia.
Would love to see some evidence on that if you don't mind.

Quoting: KelvinhboI'm pretty sure they are just running the games over Vulkan and calling that a native game, or do you actually think they are re-writing the whole games and making Linux exclusive binaries?

Yes, they are. Stadia runs Linux and they aren't using Wine. So how exactly do you understand "over Vulkan" but not a Linux binary?


Last edited by Shmerl on 16 February 2020 at 8:02 pm UTC

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboProton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

They are already making native Linux port for Stadia, so this argument makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure they are just running the games over Vulkan and calling that a native game, or do you actually think they are re-writing the whole games and making Linux exclusive binaries?

That's the only time a Linux native game makes sense, when you write the game from the ground up to take advantage of the low level API's Linux offers. Only if the market share of Linux Desktop was high enough that would make sense.

Actually there's a good deal of Stadia development target information out there - and yes, they are native builds of games.
Much of game engines is already platform agnostic, but the real kicker is if you have to change the basic structure to accommodate a different rendering backend. Khronos has done a lot of work to make Vulkan very flexible, so that shouldn't be too painful.
Shaders have been a problem, but Google plugged the missing gap by investing in a HLSL to SPIR-V compiler.

Of course, Stadia is a single hardware target - and that will no doubt make QA and risk assessment easier.

Ok. So a game like Destiny 2 have been completely re-written for Linux and is not running over Vulkan for Stadia.
Would love to see some evidence on that if you don't mind.

https://youtu.be/qdz4b5psrhE

Dustin Land from id Software shares their porting story of Doom 2016 to Stadia.

Just watch the video , you'll find the answers.

Lol, that guy triggered everyone with a bunch of baseless arguments. 91 comments and counting.
Have anyone think that he did this on purpose? I mean, just check how many times Liam has said in this site and the Internet that Stadia only accepts Linux native ports, confirmed by Google itself, I think it is impossible by now that anyone could think that Stadia is using some sort of Proton/Wine with the stability issues that "emulating/simulating" could bring to the table.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboProton is not just a "band-aid", it's revolutionary, and all I'm trying to say is that the resources and time that are being wasted on Linux native ports could be better used on making Proton better, compatible with all games and anti-cheat systems. At this time maintaining multiple ports of games is expensive, unnecessary and unreasonable.

They are already making native Linux port for Stadia, so this argument makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure they are just running the games over Vulkan and calling that a native game, or do you actually think they are re-writing the whole games and making Linux exclusive binaries?

That's the only time a Linux native game makes sense, when you write the game from the ground up to take advantage of the low level API's Linux offers. Only if the market share of Linux Desktop was high enough that would make sense.

Actually there's a good deal of Stadia development target information out there - and yes, they are native builds of games.
Much of game engines is already platform agnostic, but the real kicker is if you have to change the basic structure to accommodate a different rendering backend. Khronos has done a lot of work to make Vulkan very flexible, so that shouldn't be too painful.
Shaders have been a problem, but Google plugged the missing gap by investing in a HLSL to SPIR-V compiler.

Of course, Stadia is a single hardware target - and that will no doubt make QA and risk assessment easier.

Ok. So a game like Destiny 2 have been completely re-written for Linux and is not running over Vulkan for Stadia.
Would love to see some evidence on that if you don't mind.

Wait, I start to suspect you are confused about something. It runs through Vulkan, and it is native. Vulkan is cross platform.
If you mean runs through wine, no it does not.
I'll not search for you, not using this unwieldy device, but there are talks about developing for Stadia. Ubisoft have a very lengthy one. iD have another. Google itself has basic info about what is provided.

Is it so hard to believe? These games can run on Windows with multiple DirectX versions. They can run on pretty much all consoles. Why couldn't they do a GNU/Linux version if there was some incentive? Technical limitations haven't been the case for a while now.

I'll make it easy for you bud. Let's install the "native" Linux version of Rocket League on Linux, Do you think the code for this game was re-written from Directx9 to OpenGL? if you go into the games install folder /.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/rocketleague/Binaries/Linux/
you will find that there is a Linux binary there and no reference to Wine or a .exe, but everybody and their dog knows that game is running over a translation layer to OpenGL.

I'm pretty sure that is what Stadia is doing, you would have to be delusional to think they are recompiling Direct X games like Destiny 2 for Linux to be played on Stadia, I'm not talking about Vulkan games like Doom 2016, I made that pretty clear.

Quoting: KelvinhboI'm pretty sure that is what Stadia is doing, you would have to be delusional to think they are recompiling Direct X games like Destiny 2 for Linux to be played on Stadia, I'm not talking about Vulkan games like Doom 2016, I made that pretty clear.

Instead of being "sure", do some research first. Otherwise it's a waste of time. You clearly have no clue about Stadia technology stack.


Last edited by Shmerl on 16 February 2020 at 8:34 pm UTC

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KelvinhboI'm pretty sure that is what Stadia is doing, you would have to be delusional to think they are recompiling Direct X games like Destiny 2 for Linux to be played on Stadia, I'm not talking about Vulkan games like Doom 2016, I made that pretty clear.

Instead of being "sure", do some research first. Otherwise it's a waste of time. You clearly have no clue about Stadia technology stack.

Yeah because anybody can just go into Google and get that kind of info, and the burden of proof is on your side, I'm not the one claiming outlandish ridiculous things like Google is re-writing Direct x games just for Stadia.

I'm still waiting for the evidence on that.