The Linux GOTY Award 2019 is now open for voting

Quoting: Patola

Quoting: BeamboomI don't play for score anymore, I don't play to win at a strategy board. I play for immersion. For fantastic experiences, gorgeous landscapes, excellent acting, touching characters, and a freedom to be and do what I want in a universe like the ones I see in the movies I love.
I don't sit on a machine capable of delivering me a holodeck experience just to play pong again. That's where you have me. Is that really something to patronise?

That was some brilliant writing. I am also from this time, also played games since PONG in "telejogo" circa 1979. And I also avoid small games like the Plague. And I am also angry at the developers that try and use Pixel Graphics as pretending "being artsy" instead of plainly saying it's the small budget. And I look for the same kind of experience as you, but never had read it explained so concisely and perfectly.

I guess I'm the counter point. I'm also from that era - I'll be fifty soon, but still gaming anywhere between 10 and 40 or so hours a week, depending on my social life. But most AAA titles last decade have bored me. For example, I loved the first two Nathan Drake titles on the Playstation, but only managed about 3 hours of the fourth. And the third was a drag from the midpoint on, although I completed it.

Similarly, I loved the first reboot of Tomb Raider, then played only about 4 hours of the second. I haven't bought the third yet, but likely will just to support Feral. It's not so likely that I'll invest much time in it.

Look at the candidates this year! Sure, we only have maybe four titles in that AAA bucket, but then there is:
SteamWorld Quest (beautiful hand-drawn graphics with intense card-based mechanic)
Supraland (stunning UE4 FPS)
Iron Marines (IronHide's usual high quality cartoon graphics and voice-acting)
Slay the Spire (hand-drawn cards, insane replayability)
Indivisible (fantastic animation work)
Pine (could almost be a Nintendo title, it's so pretty)
X4 Foundations (Massive, brave open galaxy sim/fighter)

...and I haven't even mentioned Streets of Rogue! :D

So I just don't get the negativity. I really don't!

Quoting: AudiI know the polls were open for items to add, but somehow I failed to add one of my favorite developer, which would be Shiro Games. The Evoland games were great. Northgard is so much fun (though very difficult). And their upcoming 2020 title looks really good as well.

I seriously considered nominating them for Northgard, which is one of my favorite games right now - however, having never played any other titles by them I chose to put other developers with multiple titles I enjoyed (Paradox and Arcen, though I was torn about Zachtronics). But Northgard is hands down my vote for best update, because Conquest was awesome.

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: Samsaiat least to me this indie stuff is more interesting anyway because indie games feel like they at least have some soul

And that's your opinion, and one you are fully entitled to, of course. Just like I am entitled to mine. I respect your point of view. I'm glad for you. Cool! Enjoy the small games!

Your argument hinges on the absurd point that indie games would be small.
Small?!
Games like RimWorld, Stardew Valley, Dwarf Fortress, tons of Roguelikes, Atom RPG, Pathfinder, the list is endless .... they all have more depth, more gameplay to them than the majority of AAA titles combined.

I couldn't even spend more than 6 or so hours in the latest Tomb Raider as it was just so devoid of challenge, played itself for the most part (even went so far as to introduce skills that actively remove some of the gameplay that was left, now that's true AAA design) and was basically exactly like the one before.
Good port, though ;)

Meanwhile, something like Supraland with its singular vision and brillance in every detail didn't allow me to put it away from beginning to end.

Every once in a blue moon, a AAA title comes along that is actually more than just pretty to look at for a handful of hours and has something akin to actual challenge, creativity and good worldbuilding.
And it usually makes headlines when that happens.
But all the rest might as well just be a movie, because it is as deep as a pachinko machine. Just instant gratification in a Hollywood movie dress.

Quoting: BeamboomBut I've been a gamer for four decades now. I have played Pong on coin-up arcades back when people still paid to play that black'n'white game with coloured transparent stickers to create an illusion of colour. It's not like I've never played anything but the flagships of today.

Quite the contrary. I've played sprite based 2D games for thousands of hours back when that were the bleeding edge technology - there wasn't anything else. I played games back when they had to make them unfairly hard just to make them last, as they could not write bigger programs, the machines would not tackle it.

So for me, to go back to that kind of software - low budget, short games, small team efforts, limited resources, limited everything - well, I played nothing but that for years.

This is so incredibly sad to read.
You were never interested in what games are actually about: Gameplay.
You just went running after the currently best possible method to lull your brain to sleep that was one step above just being a movie, weren't you?
Well, you finally got what you always wanted. Just not on Linux.

If you want to lull your brain to sleep with AAA graphics - because that is exactly what happens, your brain got nothing to do there as it doesn't need to fill any blanks, the more realistic the graphics get - well, that's your choice. But then why not just watch movies and series (or read books)? Those can focus on nothing more than "graphics" and acting and stories - which seem to be the most important things to you.

I always watch one or two episodes of some series before going to bed. Or a movie. It's nice. Shuts me right down and makes me ready to sleep. Just like most AAA titles would.
But why the hell would I want to do that for the rest of the day (well, the free time part, anyway)?

Quoting: PatolaAnd I am also angry at the developers that try and use Pixel Graphics as pretending "being artsy" instead of plainly saying it's the small budget.

Not saying this is never true, as it sometimes is.
But nowadays, you can definitely go for more modern graphics with a small budget, too.
So I would argue that the majority of titles that do use Pixel Graphics or sprites do so not because of budget reasons but because they simply want to go with that style.

Because that's what it is, believe it or not: A style.
And a good one, too.

Since no amount of realistic graphics can ever replace the best renderer that ever was, is and will be: The space between our ears.
The early era (90s- early 2000s) had the incredible advantage of being restricted in graphical possibilities, and the solutions they came up with have advantages that are (thankfully!) being rediscovered today. And used for reasons other than technical or budget limitations.

Just like you still have all the classical instruments around, even though we now have the capabilities to do tons of other stuff electronically. They aren't "just old", they are different.

They spark the imagination, they are just more interesting to look at than "realistic plant and rock number 67632487", they make your brain go into (or stay in) active mode.
If I wanted high-end realism, I could spend my time hiking through the forest. No PC could beat that. Yet.
There is so much more a title like Ion Fury or Dusk offer to you (single-player-wise, anyway) than something like the last 10 Call Of Duties or abominations like the latest Wolfenstein would. It's a damn shame you are declining the offer.

Edit: Sorry if that all sounded too aggressive, but graphics-whorism always gets to me.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 3 February 2020 at 7:30 am UTC

oh my f***ing (no)god! I again discovered a pack of FOSS game (red eclipse2, wideland, zero-k, mindustry, wyrmsun)!!

Quoting: TheSHEEEPEdit: Sorry if that all sounded too aggressive, but graphics-whorism always gets to me.

Then stop assuming everyone you disagree with are just whores. Cause what you released there was plain ignorant nonsense, hot air.


Last edited by Beamboom on 3 February 2020 at 8:48 am UTC

Quoting: Liam DaweI think it's more a case of the attitude. We're a niche, a tiny one and nothing has changed on that. Seeing people repeat the "there's no AAA games" thing over and over again just gets tiring. We are where we are, a lot of us enjoying what we have.

fair point. I'm just sitting here, eagerly, worked up by the massive whirl around the "Steam Machines" a while back. It was a glimpse of what COULD have happened, had that thing been handled with enough focus while it was hot. The response from various devs and distributors demonstrated to us with no doubt that it *is* possible - had just Valve made the Steam Machine and pushed it on market the year after.
If only they did things in a different order - earned some experience with making hardware first and then launched the Steam Machine, then we quite likely would have been in an entirely different situation now.

But point taken.


Last edited by Beamboom on 3 February 2020 at 8:50 am UTC

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Patola

Quoting: BeamboomI don't play for score anymore, I don't play to win at a strategy board. I play for immersion. For fantastic experiences, gorgeous landscapes, excellent acting, touching characters, and a freedom to be and do what I want in a universe like the ones I see in the movies I love.
I don't sit on a machine capable of delivering me a holodeck experience just to play pong again. That's where you have me. Is that really something to patronise?

That was some brilliant writing. I am also from this time, also played games since PONG in "telejogo" circa 1979. And I also avoid small games like the Plague. And I am also angry at the developers that try and use Pixel Graphics as pretending "being artsy" instead of plainly saying it's the small budget. And I look for the same kind of experience as you, but never had read it explained so concisely and perfectly.

I guess I'm the counter point. I'm also from that era - I'll be fifty soon, but still gaming anywhere between 10 and 40 or so hours a week, depending on my social life. But most AAA titles last decade have bored me. For example, I loved the first two Nathan Drake titles on the Playstation, but only managed about 3 hours of the fourth. And the third was a drag from the midpoint on, although I completed it.

Similarly, I loved the first reboot of Tomb Raider, then played only about 4 hours of the second. I haven't bought the third yet, but likely will just to support Feral. It's not so likely that I'll invest much time in it.

Look at the candidates this year! Sure, we only have maybe four titles in that AAA bucket, but then there is:
SteamWorld Quest (beautiful hand-drawn graphics with intense card-based mechanic)
Supraland (stunning UE4 FPS)
Iron Marines (IronHide's usual high quality cartoon graphics and voice-acting)
Slay the Spire (hand-drawn cards, insane replayability)
Indivisible (fantastic animation work)
Pine (could almost be a Nintendo title, it's so pretty)
X4 Foundations (Massive, brave open galaxy sim/fighter)

...and I haven't even mentioned Streets of Rogue! :D

So I just don't get the negativity. I really don't!

I'm not quite as... old ;) however I did grow up playing Amiga 600 and Sega Master System and the Mega Drive. Even games in the same genre, like pixel platformers and so on have come a very long way. Trying to play some of the classics... terrible controls for starters. My point, I also grew up with some ancient gaming and I also get highly bored of the majority of AAA games.

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: Liam DaweI think it's more a case of the attitude. We're a niche, a tiny one and nothing has changed on that. Seeing people repeat the "there's no AAA games" thing over and over again just gets tiring. We are where we are, a lot of us enjoying what we have.

fair point. I'm just sitting here, eagerly, worked up by the massive whirl around the "Steam Machines" a while back. It was a glimpse of what COULD have happened, had that thing been handled with enough focus while it was hot. The response from various devs and distributors demonstrated to us with no doubt that it *is* possible - had just Valve made the Steam Machine and pushed it on market the year after.
If only they did things in a different order - earned some experience with making hardware first and then launched the Steam Machine, then we quite likely would have been in an entirely different situation now.

But point taken.

Totally get that. I know developers who banked on Steam Machines, I myself had a fair bit riding on its success as the owner of this site. Imagine where GOL would be... still, things continue to progress in lots of ways and I've found so many fucking awesome games in the last year it's crazy we even get what we do at a 0.90% market share.

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: TheSHEEEPEdit: Sorry if that all sounded too aggressive, but graphics-whorism always gets to me.

Then stop assuming everyone you disagree with are just whores. Cause what you released there was plain ignorant nonsense, hot air.

Of which you did not counter a single point, so I am most likely simply right about you.
If someone by their own admission primarily cares about secondary attributes of games like graphics, then sorry, but those people are graphics whores. That's kind of the definition here.

But hey, despair not! I know many people who are proud of that status, for some reason.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 3 February 2020 at 9:36 am UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEPOf which you did not counter a single point, so I am most likely simply right about you.

Again an assumption. You are really eager at judging others, aren't you.
The problem is your attitude, it's not one I care to spend time on. Be a bit more inviting and not so full of attitude and you may establish an interesting conversation. I don't have a single thing against people with different perception on things than me. But I do have a thing against people that respond like you.

And quite frankly you already found the answers in the post you replied to, had you bothered reading it without already having made up your mind about your response.


Last edited by Beamboom on 3 February 2020 at 12:26 pm UTC