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PayPalSystem76 do a lot of things, they've steadily grown to a point where they make their own desktops and now they're expanding further into making more hardware.
Now they're going to have a go at making a keyboard. Not the fanciest of tech, sure, however it's something we use constantly when at a PC and it's obviously essential. It also hasn't really changed much over the years, which System76 think they can do better.
Since they're a Linux hardware vendor, and they also make their own Linux distribution with Pop!_OS, it will of course all fit together nicely.
In their blog post, they did a little interview with CEO Carl Richell, who mentioned that they did research and found that "spacebars typically, for example, are way too long" and that "you use your pinkie because useful keys are out at the extremities of the keyboard—so we wanted to change that".
Obvious early prototype.
Being configurable is a bit point of what they're doing too. The hardware, firmware and configuration software will be open source too. The keys can be swapped around, making it easy to change how you use it. And yes, it appears to be a proper Mechanical keyboard too.
It'd not going to be a massively wild design though, beginners should still be able to plug it in and get going like anyone else but "you’re going to have less strain on your hands, because instead of using your pinkies, you’ll use your thumbs for common keystrokes and key combinations" and other common keys will be more accessible.
Speaking on Twitter in reply to a quick tip we did about this early yesterday System76 Engineer, Jeremy Soller, confirmed it will work with QMK (Quantum Mechanical Keyboard Firmware) something echoed by another System76 Engineer Michael Aaron Murphy who said "Everything is open source. You may even flash the firmware to remap the behaviors of each key.".
When will it be available? They're aiming for late Summer and before then hopefully they will show off the proper final design for us to ogle over.
See their blog post for more info.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Who will be the first keyboard manufacturer to do the only change we really need with our keyboard layout and finally REMOVE THE F'ING CAPS LOCK KEY!!?
It must happen - the day must come!
Last edited by Beamboom on 19 March 2020 at 11:05 am UTC
It must happen - the day must come!
Last edited by Beamboom on 19 March 2020 at 11:05 am UTC
9 Likes, Who?
That’s an excuse to show you keyboards, or maybe on a specific topic ? Anyway, my keyboard since about 3 years.
I usually rebind all keys, to play with PUIE instead of WASD (and all associated gameplay keys then).
I have issues with very few games, and if i must, i just switch system layout to US keyboard.
And of course, to simply type texts, it’s awesome.
French keyboard are usually copied from qwerty, but azerty.
However, last year, the standardization office said there are 2 main layouts now : AZERTY and BÉPO.
BÉPO is "weird" so still quite niche, but playing Linux + indi games + being french, i guess being niche is my fate...
Last edited by Tchey on 19 March 2020 at 10:03 am UTC
I usually rebind all keys, to play with PUIE instead of WASD (and all associated gameplay keys then).
I have issues with very few games, and if i must, i just switch system layout to US keyboard.
And of course, to simply type texts, it’s awesome.
French keyboard are usually copied from qwerty, but azerty.
However, last year, the standardization office said there are 2 main layouts now : AZERTY and BÉPO.
BÉPO is "weird" so still quite niche, but playing Linux + indi games + being french, i guess being niche is my fate...
Last edited by Tchey on 19 March 2020 at 10:03 am UTC
3 Likes, Who?
honestly...
i think we are doomed, like, hardware? really?
dont get me wrong, i have asked for new keys for years, so i can create custom shortcuts and try to adapt my workflow for it.
the issue is:
we need more inovations in softwares, we will gain more productivity with better software...
its hard to make money with open source, so many distro makers chose to sell it togheter with an hardware, because its easier to convince people to buy an physical object that they cant get for free than donate to an project.
i can see the trend here, in the past, i thought that an free game with opitinal payments for cosmetics were the best business model for consumers, but now, many companies focus more on cosmetics than the game itself.
i think they should invest more money in projects like blender and godot, but they arent paid to be impartial, so making an system designed to be fast travelled with their own keyboard can make people get so used to this workflow that they will not want to use anything else, or better saying, maybe they will be able too...
i guess an proposal like the endless OS one is much better, sure, they make custom hardware, but they make an system that comes with a lot of softwares and documentation so you can use the computer offline in areas where people have no acess to the internet, without much prejudice, you dont have internet acess and cant find an video tutorial? this OS comes preloaded with it. (or something like that)
that is an real solution that i see solving real problems.
the system76 aproach here is... well, i dont like the trend...
i think we are doomed, like, hardware? really?
dont get me wrong, i have asked for new keys for years, so i can create custom shortcuts and try to adapt my workflow for it.
the issue is:
we need more inovations in softwares, we will gain more productivity with better software...
its hard to make money with open source, so many distro makers chose to sell it togheter with an hardware, because its easier to convince people to buy an physical object that they cant get for free than donate to an project.
i can see the trend here, in the past, i thought that an free game with opitinal payments for cosmetics were the best business model for consumers, but now, many companies focus more on cosmetics than the game itself.
i think they should invest more money in projects like blender and godot, but they arent paid to be impartial, so making an system designed to be fast travelled with their own keyboard can make people get so used to this workflow that they will not want to use anything else, or better saying, maybe they will be able too...
i guess an proposal like the endless OS one is much better, sure, they make custom hardware, but they make an system that comes with a lot of softwares and documentation so you can use the computer offline in areas where people have no acess to the internet, without much prejudice, you dont have internet acess and cant find an video tutorial? this OS comes preloaded with it. (or something like that)
that is an real solution that i see solving real problems.
the system76 aproach here is... well, i dont like the trend...
0 Likes
Left hand is left of the space key, right hand is right of it....
Standard 10-finger typing.
How the hell would you use the pinky finger for space?
Haven't even seen people who do not type with 10 fingers use their pinky finger to press the space bar.
But yeah, it could definitely be a bit smaller. And a bit less loud even on my silent keyboard.
Standard 10-finger typing.
How the hell would you use the pinky finger for space?
Haven't even seen people who do not type with 10 fingers use their pinky finger to press the space bar.
But yeah, it could definitely be a bit smaller. And a bit less loud even on my silent keyboard.
0 Likes
There is already a keyboard that tries to reimagine stuff that provides Linux support.
It's called https://www.dygma.com/. A friend of mine backed it, and I had the opportunity to test it and feels quite nice actually. I'm not that used to such a compact layout though, but I suppose that's just an habit.
I think it hasn't been covered here so if you are interested, check it out.
It's called https://www.dygma.com/. A friend of mine backed it, and I had the opportunity to test it and feels quite nice actually. I'm not that used to such a compact layout though, but I suppose that's just an habit.
I think it hasn't been covered here so if you are interested, check it out.
1 Likes, Who?
walther von stolzing Mar 19, 2020
A bit odd that they don't mention the type of key switches they're considering to use. I also wonder what range the price is going to be at.
Mechanical keyboard building is a really expensive hobby, esp. if you want a sturdy frame, and switches with good tactile feedback; if sys76 can deliver good quality at a reasonable price, that would be a huge plus.
Mechanical keyboard building is a really expensive hobby, esp. if you want a sturdy frame, and switches with good tactile feedback; if sys76 can deliver good quality at a reasonable price, that would be a huge plus.
0 Likes
SirLootALot Mar 19, 2020
So why wouldn't I just buy a Das Keyboard instead. Looks much more customizable, more standard and it comes with a german keyboardlayout. Its Software is also free.
1 Likes, Who?
Born into the age of typewriters, I took typing as a junior in high school to prepare myself for using the Vic-20 I was saving up for.
After 4 decades of touch-typing on QWERTY keyboards I'll never be able to type on anything else. I'll certainly never be able to type on anything as singularly arranged as the System 76 keyboard shown above.
In fact, the one and only thing I'd change about almost every keyboard available today is to worldwide and forever replace the crap "US" style ENTER key with the eminently practical "British" style one:
If System 76 want to make something, start making Steam style controllers so I can shake this sense of hopelessness and loss I've had since Valve announced they were discontinuing theirs.
Last edited by Nanobang on 20 March 2020 at 12:27 pm UTC
After 4 decades of touch-typing on QWERTY keyboards I'll never be able to type on anything else. I'll certainly never be able to type on anything as singularly arranged as the System 76 keyboard shown above.
In fact, the one and only thing I'd change about almost every keyboard available today is to worldwide and forever replace the crap "US" style ENTER key with the eminently practical "British" style one:
If System 76 want to make something, start making Steam style controllers so I can shake this sense of hopelessness and loss I've had since Valve announced they were discontinuing theirs.
Last edited by Nanobang on 20 March 2020 at 12:27 pm UTC
2 Likes, Who?
Left hand is left of the space key, right hand is right of it....I read it that way first as well, but that's not what is meant. Pinky usage is a separate point than the space bar length.
Standard 10-finger typing.
How the hell would you use the pinky finger for space?
Haven't even seen people who do not type with 10 fingers use their pinky finger to press the space bar.
The only "problem" I see with a big layout change is I'll have to get two so I don't have to switch back and forth at work and at home. To be honest, I think Tchey's keyboard layout looks more radical and worth trying than the System76 prototype. I agree with the space bar length being too long right now though.
Last edited by 14 on 19 March 2020 at 1:43 pm UTC
1 Likes, Who?
I applaud their effort, we always need more keyboards, but with plenty of variations on Planck and Ergodox and the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard already available, I'm not sure where exactly they'll be able to innovate. The current layout looks very squeezed and like it would require either a lot of hand movement or cramped finger gestures, so I'm not sure what benefits over a standard Tenkeyless or (better yet) a Planck they're going for.
Disclaimer: Still in love with my ErgoDox EZ.
Disclaimer: Still in love with my ErgoDox EZ.
2 Likes, Who?
I do always find it odd when people ask "why when x exists?". Nothing moves on both in hardware and software, without more people and companies trying to make things. Competition is good too and a 100% Linux focused vendor doing it is obviously icing on the cake, the stronger they are as a company the better.
1 Likes, Who?
Who will be the first keyboard manufacturer to do the only change we really need with our keyboard layout and finally REMOVE THE F'ING CAPS LOCK KEY!!?I like the idea of having a caps lock key . . . somewhere. Somewhere off at the edge, with the function keys or something, where I won't accidentally hit it when I just want to hit shift. Because now and then I have a use for it, and when I do want it it's definitely what I want. Just not very often.
It must happen - the day must come!
2 Likes, Who?
Looking at that prototype . . . OK, so on a normal keyboard the spacebar is too long, I'll buy that up to a point. But, maybe my eyes are getting old here, on that prototype I can't see a spacebar at all, which isn't really an improvement. Like, down where the spacebar would be I'm seeing alt, shift, backspace, ctrl. So is one or more of those blue and orange things supposed to be "space"? I don't want to be hitting "space" with my pinky!
Also not sure if I'm seeing an "enter" key.
Still, I'll be interested to see a later prototype.
Also not sure if I'm seeing an "enter" key.
Still, I'll be interested to see a later prototype.
0 Likes
SirLootALot Mar 19, 2020
I do always find it odd when people ask "why when x exists?". Nothing moves on both in hardware and software, without more people and companies trying to make things. Competition is good too and a 100% Linux focused vendor doing it is obviously icing on the cake, the stronger they are as a company the better.If I started manufacturing cars and made a car competing with e.g. the VW Golf but being worse in (almost) every perceivable way, there would be (almost) no benefit to the market. I as a consumer would have no meaningful benefit if the additional option is not worth considering. Competition is awesome, but sometimes it is the underdog, that is the worse competitor. Competition works by people choosing the product, that is better (for their needs) not by buying partisan. This also applies to Linux-Laptops, I will only buy a Laptop from the likes of Purism System 76, Tuxedo etc. if they actually offer me a better package than the Linux-Laptops from Lenovo, Dell and HP.
I on the other hand find it odd when people see something being different/new/something or someone else as a virtue unto itself. I wish System 76 all the best and appreciate their contributions to open source projects, but if I want to support developers, I donate, and if I want a Laptop or a keyboard, I will buy what best suits my needs. And right now there are arguably better options for all their products.
0 Likes
SirLootALot Mar 19, 2020
Just to offer an alternative view: how do you know something is a better option if nobody tries to do something else? Looking at the space bar, and some comments here, I could definitely go for space on the right, capslock on the left (programmable at the keyboard firmware level of course).Well I agree. I have nothing against them bringing a different product to the market, just to make that clear. If they think that is a good business decision they shall go for it. Not a waste, just no benefit for me. I also see nothing I am interested in being inspired by this. There are (firmware-level) freely programmable Keyboards out there for cheap (look on ebay for those from Supermarket counters), there are 100% custom layouts and such things have been tried before. This is just a mishmash of existing things imo.
Maybe overall it's not for your taste, and that's fine. It might be for someone else's though, or it might inspire ideas in others that build something that is for your taste. So I wouldn't see anything they're doing as a waste.
0 Likes
I need my capslock key.
I disabled the capslock key (by sort of unbinding it with the command `setxkbmap -option caps:none`) (not sure on the internals of that), and it's now my PTT key on Discord.
I disabled the capslock key (by sort of unbinding it with the command `setxkbmap -option caps:none`) (not sure on the internals of that), and it's now my PTT key on Discord.
0 Likes
Yes, mirv's comment is pretty much what I was trying to get across.I on the other hand find it odd when people see something being different/new/something or someone else as a virtue unto itself. I wish System 76 all the best and appreciate their contributions to open source projects, but if I want to support developers, I donate, and if I want a Laptop or a keyboard, I will buy what best suits my needs. And right now there are arguably better options for all their products.
Just to offer an alternative view: how do you know something is a better option if nobody tries to do something else? Looking at the space bar, and some comments here, I could definitely go for space on the right, capslock on the left (programmable at the keyboard firmware level of course).
Maybe overall it's not for your taste, and that's fine. It might be for someone else's though, or it might inspire ideas in others that build something that is for your taste. So I wouldn't see anything they're doing as a waste.
0 Likes
Because now and then I have a use for it, and when I do want it it's definitely what I want. Just not very often.
A ctrl-shift to lock it would be more than enough, imo. Or double-press shift to lock it?
We need no physical button for it. A colleague of mine has simply ripped it off his keyboard :D I've disabled it in the Gnome keyboard settings.
Last edited by Beamboom on 19 March 2020 at 8:02 pm UTC
1 Likes, Who?
Luke_Nukem Mar 19, 2020
Looking at that prototype . . . OK, so on a normal keyboard the spacebar is too long, I'll buy that up to a point. But, maybe my eyes are getting old here, on that prototype I can't see a spacebar at all, which isn't really an improvement. Like, down where the spacebar would be I'm seeing alt, shift, backspace, ctrl. So is one or more of those blue and orange things supposed to be "space"? I don't want to be hitting "space" with my pinky!
Also not sure if I'm seeing an "enter" key.
Still, I'll be interested to see a later prototype.
No, those two split keys where space was are meant to be assignable - so maybe you want backspace on the left and space on the right of the split (as opposed to what they are labelled as.
I think they will need to try and poll everyone for a reasonable layout to pick out what keys would be what, and offer a set of keycaps so they can be labelled.
1 Likes, Who?
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