System76 do a lot of things, they've steadily grown to a point where they make their own desktops and now they're expanding further into making more hardware.
Now they're going to have a go at making a keyboard. Not the fanciest of tech, sure, however it's something we use constantly when at a PC and it's obviously essential. It also hasn't really changed much over the years, which System76 think they can do better.
Since they're a Linux hardware vendor, and they also make their own Linux distribution with Pop!_OS, it will of course all fit together nicely.
In their blog post, they did a little interview with CEO Carl Richell, who mentioned that they did research and found that "spacebars typically, for example, are way too long" and that "you use your pinkie because useful keys are out at the extremities of the keyboard—so we wanted to change that".
Obvious early prototype.
Being configurable is a bit point of what they're doing too. The hardware, firmware and configuration software will be open source too. The keys can be swapped around, making it easy to change how you use it. And yes, it appears to be a proper Mechanical keyboard too.
It'd not going to be a massively wild design though, beginners should still be able to plug it in and get going like anyone else but "you’re going to have less strain on your hands, because instead of using your pinkies, you’ll use your thumbs for common keystrokes and key combinations" and other common keys will be more accessible.
Speaking on Twitter in reply to a quick tip we did about this early yesterday System76 Engineer, Jeremy Soller, confirmed it will work with QMK (Quantum Mechanical Keyboard Firmware) something echoed by another System76 Engineer Michael Aaron Murphy who said "Everything is open source. You may even flash the firmware to remap the behaviors of each key.".
When will it be available? They're aiming for late Summer and before then hopefully they will show off the proper final design for us to ogle over.
See their blog post for more info.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The Acer Chromebooks actually don't have Caps Lock keys at all, and I haven't seen anyone complain about them missing.
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Hey maybe we could talk Purism and System76 into collaborating - System76 could design an all-AMD gaming laptop, and Purism could design the hardware killswitches for it.
I just bought my first mechanical keyboard this year, a Logitech K840 refurb from Newegg. I'm not really a clicky keys connoisseur, but so far I quite like it. The RomerG's are fine. So for me to even look at this one it's probably gonna need Cherry MX Browns.
Last edited by jarhead_h on 19 March 2020 at 10:48 pm UTC
I just bought my first mechanical keyboard this year, a Logitech K840 refurb from Newegg. I'm not really a clicky keys connoisseur, but so far I quite like it. The RomerG's are fine. So for me to even look at this one it's probably gonna need Cherry MX Browns.
Last edited by jarhead_h on 19 March 2020 at 10:48 pm UTC
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Yeah, I guess those would work. Long as I have the option.Because now and then I have a use for it, and when I do want it it's definitely what I want. Just not very often.
A ctrl-shift to lock it would be more than enough, imo. Or double-press shift to lock it?
We need no physical button for it. A colleague of mine has simply ripped it off his keyboard :D I've disabled it in the Gnome keyboard settings.
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I see. Kind of silly of them to have their picture of a prototype be in a configuration that it couldn't possibly in practice be.Looking at that prototype . . . OK, so on a normal keyboard the spacebar is too long, I'll buy that up to a point. But, maybe my eyes are getting old here, on that prototype I can't see a spacebar at all, which isn't really an improvement. Like, down where the spacebar would be I'm seeing alt, shift, backspace, ctrl. So is one or more of those blue and orange things supposed to be "space"? I don't want to be hitting "space" with my pinky!
Also not sure if I'm seeing an "enter" key.
Still, I'll be interested to see a later prototype.
No, those two split keys where space was are meant to be assignable - so maybe you want backspace on the left and space on the right of the split (as opposed to what they are labelled as.
I think they will need to try and poll everyone for a reasonable layout to pick out what keys would be what, and offer a set of keycaps so they can be labelled.
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Philadelphus Mar 20, 2020
Adding to this, I read another article about this where someone at the company said basically "The pictures don't reflect an actual product, we just took pictures of what we had while we were messing about with the layout, which is why there's no actual "Space" key on the keyboard in picture." Which seems a little odd to me, if nothing else I'd put a sticky note labeled "Space" on one of the keys so people don't get the wrong idea (as this seems to be a pretty common misconception), but whatever.Looking at that prototype . . . OK, so on a normal keyboard the spacebar is too long, I'll buy that up to a point. But, maybe my eyes are getting old here, on that prototype I can't see a spacebar at all, which isn't really an improvement. Like, down where the spacebar would be I'm seeing alt, shift, backspace, ctrl. So is one or more of those blue and orange things supposed to be "space"? I don't want to be hitting "space" with my pinky!
Also not sure if I'm seeing an "enter" key.
Still, I'll be interested to see a later prototype.
No, those two split keys where space was are meant to be assignable - so maybe you want backspace on the left and space on the right of the split (as opposed to what they are labelled as.
I think they will need to try and poll everyone for a reasonable layout to pick out what keys would be what, and offer a set of keycaps so they can be labelled.
Now, I won't be using this keyboard because it has no number pad (and if you ever need to enter lots of numbers*, one-handed number pad entry beats the number keys at the top hands down†), but I kinda like the idea of breaking the space bar into two so that my left thumb can actually contribute in my typing. Having the right side be space and the left side be backspace makes a certain amount of sense to me.
*Or play Dwarf Fortress.
†Pun not intended.
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Mountain Man Mar 20, 2020
If System 76 want to make something, start making Steam style controllers so I can shake this sense of hopelessness and loss I've had since Valve announced they were discontinuing theirs.I hadn't heard that. That's too bad. I think the Steam Controller is the best gamepad ever made.
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†Pun not intended.Suuuuure.
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It's weird nobody mentioned the awesome Typematrix keyboard, and its Dvorak layout:
I've been using this one for about 16 years now, and I can only recommend it.
The vertical columns and middle enter key are a must-have (http://typematrix.com/2030/why.php), among other nice features.
My only wish would be that a laptop vendor integrated such keyboard directly. That would be a dream come true!
Here are other variants, like the Qwerty one:
...and the pure blank one (which is pretty handy when combined with translucent skins):
This only happens with Homer Simpson ;)
When you learn to drive, do you forget how to ride a bike ? Well same thing with keyboard layouts !
Last edited by AciD on 20 March 2020 at 7:26 am UTC
I've been using this one for about 16 years now, and I can only recommend it.
The vertical columns and middle enter key are a must-have (http://typematrix.com/2030/why.php), among other nice features.
My only wish would be that a laptop vendor integrated such keyboard directly. That would be a dream come true!
Here are other variants, like the Qwerty one:
...and the pure blank one (which is pretty handy when combined with translucent skins):
After 4 decades of touch-typing on QWERTY keyboards I'll never be able to type on anything else. I'll certainly never be able to type on anything as singularly arranged as the System 76 keyboard shown above.Well, I can tell you that the brain is a marvelous machine, since I already touch-typed on Azerty before, and while it took me about 3 months to regain (and surpass) my previous wpm speed on the Dvorak layout, this absolutely does not mean you forget how to touch-type with your previous layout.
This only happens with Homer Simpson ;)
When you learn to drive, do you forget how to ride a bike ? Well same thing with keyboard layouts !
Last edited by AciD on 20 March 2020 at 7:26 am UTC
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Para-Gliding Mar 20, 2020
That’s an excuse to show you keyboards, or maybe on a specific topic ? Anyway, my keyboard since about 3 years.
dat frenchy matrix Bépo keybord. Need it!
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I takes me months to adjust to a new laptop keyboard with an ever so slightly different QWERTY layout. Just like it takes me ages to get comfortable with a new game controller. In any case, I just don't see the point in relearning to type. I'm sure you can type faster with your fancy keyboard, but I'm perfectly fine with that. :)After 4 decades of touch-typing on QWERTY keyboards I'll never be able to type on anything else. I'll certainly never be able to type on anything as singularly arranged as the System 76 keyboard shown above.Well, I can tell you that the brain is a marvelous machine, since I already touch-typed on Azerty before, and while it took me about 3 months to regain (and surpass) my previous wpm speed on the Dvorak layout, this absolutely does not mean you forget how to touch-type with your previous layout.
This only happens with Homer Simpson ;)
When you learn to drive, do you forget how to ride a bike ? Well same thing with keyboard layouts !
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Para-Gliding Mar 20, 2020
The opposition between 'traditionalist' and 'liberal"... I still don't understand how traditionalists can't matter that their traditions/habits come from stuffs that were marginal at one time before.
...I love dvorak, bepo, all those alternatives but their costs, wow!
I would love to buy a Ergodox EZ as it should be from my point of view a standard ... but that price XD, no way
...I love dvorak, bepo, all those alternatives but their costs, wow!
I would love to buy a Ergodox EZ as it should be from my point of view a standard ... but that price XD, no way
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[...]Well, I think I've spent about the same on my ErgoDox EZ as I would have continued spending on the continued search for a better keyboard, wrist pads, programming gloves, etc. For comparison, I bought 3 normal keyboards and about 5 wrist pads in the year before the ErgoDox and haven't used anything else since I got it.
...I love dvorak, bepo, all those alternatives but their costs, wow!
I would love to buy a Ergodox EZ as it should be from my point of view a standard ... but that price XD, no way
There are cheaper options as well; you can get a normal ErgoDox for about $150 less if you build it yourself (you'll be missing out on the tent-kit, wrist pads and lights though) or you could build a Planck (about 50€ for the PCB off eBay).
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If System 76 want to make something, start making Steam style controllers so I can shake this sense of hopelessness and loss I've had since Valve announced they were discontinuing theirs.I hadn't heard that. That's too bad. I think the Steam Controller is the best gamepad ever made.
I'm sorry to have been the one to break the sad news to you then. Yeah, Valve sold the last of them out for $5 during their Autumn sale. There's a lovely write-up at the Verge about the controller's passing. I've got three of them, and I'm still using the first one I bought back in '14, so I expect that I'm set for ... well, a good while.
I think the Steam Controller is like Linux itself: clearly superior, but, because it requires the user tinker and think now and then, puts it out of realm of interest for the mass of humanity living comfortably in the middle of the Bell curve.
Last edited by Nanobang on 20 March 2020 at 12:25 pm UTC
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It's weird nobody mentioned the awesome Typematrix keyboard, and its Dvorak layout:
I've been using this one for about 16 years now, and I can only recommend it.
The vertical columns and middle enter key are a must-have (http://typematrix.com/2030/why.php), among other nice features.
My only wish would be that a laptop vendor integrated such keyboard directly. That would be a dream come true!
Here are other variants, like the Qwerty one:
...and the pure blank one (which is pretty handy when combined with translucent skins):
After 4 decades of touch-typing on QWERTY keyboards I'll never be able to type on anything else. I'll certainly never be able to type on anything as singularly arranged as the System 76 keyboard shown above.Well, I can tell you that the brain is a marvelous machine, since I already touch-typed on Azerty before, and while it took me about 3 months to regain (and surpass) my previous wpm speed on the Dvorak layout, this absolutely does not mean you forget how to touch-type with your previous layout.
This only happens with Homer Simpson ;)
When you learn to drive, do you forget how to ride a bike ? Well same thing with keyboard layouts !
It certainly looks interesting (though, again, I'd want to try the QWERTY layout one :P). I'm aware that the reason for the offset keys of the traditional keyboard have to do with the natural angle of fingers above the keys, so I'm curious about how it would feel to type with the grid of the Typematrix unit.
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Personally, I don't like the steam controller. Badly shaped for my hands, feels like poor construction quality, and needs additional userspace utilities to use it (unlike my other controllers).My story exactly. I really like the idea of the Steam Controller. It just feels impossible to use ergonomically, and the various noises drive me crazy. I kinda feel bad about this because I got it as a gift from a friend, and then had to go and buy another Logitech gamepad anyway.
I much prefer the Logitech F710.
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If System 76 want to make something, start making Steam style controllers so I can shake this sense of hopelessness and loss I've had since Valve announced they were discontinuing theirs.I hadn't heard that. That's too bad. I think the Steam Controller is the best gamepad ever made.
I'm sorry to have been the one to break the sad news to you then. Yeah, Valve sold the last of them out for $5 during their Autumn sale. There's a lovely write-up at the Verge about the controller's passing. I've got three of them, and I'm still using the first one I bought back in '14, so I expect that I'm set for ... well, a good while.
I think the Steam Controller is like Linux itself: clearly superior, but, because it requires the user tinker and think now and then, puts it out of realm of interest for the mass of humanity living comfortably in the middle of the Bell curve.
I'm going to help derail slightly, but only because it's relevant to the whole one size does not fit all...
Personally, I don't like the steam controller. Badly shaped for my hands, feels like poor construction quality, and needs additional userspace utilities to use it (unlike my other controllers).
I much prefer the Logitech F710.
Which then makes me wonder about peripherals like a keyboard, mouse, controller - maybe the way to go is 3D printing. Easy assembled devices that can have some of the externals customised further than they are now. I know mechanical keyboards make this easy to switch around the keys, but I sometimes get the feeling it could go further with the right engineering behind it. One can dream I suppose.
Absolutely one size doesn't fit all, nor is the necessity for user setup something everyone is gonna dig. I guess those are things I meant when I compared the Steam Controller to Linux.
Your point about how the SC is badly shaped for your hands is a common complaint though. The SC is a bit large for the smaller-handed members of humanity. I will contend that it does require a bit of adjustment for anyone coming from the PS/XB etc. type of controllers for anyone whose hands aren't too small.
The whole "it feels cheap" complaint is exceedingly common among reviewers of the SC. I myself had a moment of disappointment when I first clicked one of the pads and heard its plastic-y "clack" sound. But this is an issue of personal aesthetics that in no real way reflects the quality or utility of the controller itself, and I quickly moved past it.
I hear a lot of good things about the F710 conroller, and I know a lot of people dig it deeply. Of course the Steam Controller is still the best controller ever made ... :P
Last edited by Nanobang on 20 March 2020 at 12:57 pm UTC
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It seems to me that one of the major reasons for alternative layouts like Dvorak keyboards has greatly diminished since they were invented. That is, raw typing speed is not an issue nearly as often as it once was IMO. Used to be you had lots of situations where speed was the big thing. Secretaries took dictation, people typed stuff that had started out written on paper longhand. Sometimes people even typed multiple copies of the same thing! Later there was lots of "data entry", which is to say typing things into computers because the information didn't start on computers.
Nowadays much of that is gone. People compose their own emails, they don't dictate them to secretaries. Files are infinitely copyable. Increasingly, data originates in computers (eg forms are filled out online in the first place, not transcribed from paper), or is put there by scanning barcodes or those square barcode-like things. Typing mostly does not need to happen faster than composition, and QWERTY's fine for that, so there's little impetus for change.
It's a pity because QWERTY really isn't a very good layout, although I'm not sure I believe the story that it was deliberately designed to slow typists down to avoid keys sticking.
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 20 March 2020 at 6:51 pm UTC
Nowadays much of that is gone. People compose their own emails, they don't dictate them to secretaries. Files are infinitely copyable. Increasingly, data originates in computers (eg forms are filled out online in the first place, not transcribed from paper), or is put there by scanning barcodes or those square barcode-like things. Typing mostly does not need to happen faster than composition, and QWERTY's fine for that, so there's little impetus for change.
It's a pity because QWERTY really isn't a very good layout, although I'm not sure I believe the story that it was deliberately designed to slow typists down to avoid keys sticking.
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 20 March 2020 at 6:51 pm UTC
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It's a pity because QWERTY really isn't a very good layout, although I'm not sure I believe the story that it was deliberately designed to slow typists down to avoid keys sticking.I can believe it was designed to avoid keys sticking, but the slowing typists down part was probably just an unwanted side effect of rearranging the keys to space out common key sequences (in the english language).
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walther von stolzing Mar 21, 2020
I've been touch typing QWERTY for a long time now. A couple of years ago I wanted to try out Dvorak, so I found some exercises, and tried to practice -- the keyword here, though, is 'try'; because the effort almost gave me vertigo, it made me seriously dizzy.
I'm still curious, though I'm really not willing to put in the effort to overcome that awful feeling of disorientation.
Last edited by walther von stolzing on 21 March 2020 at 12:14 am UTC
I'm still curious, though I'm really not willing to put in the effort to overcome that awful feeling of disorientation.
Last edited by walther von stolzing on 21 March 2020 at 12:14 am UTC
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Philadelphus Mar 21, 2020
As long as we're showing off cool and unusual keyboard designs, have the Keyboard.io:
So why wouldn't I just buy a Das Keyboard instead. Looks much more customizable, more standard and it comes with a german keyboardlayout. Its Software is also free.That's pretty cool. Haven't heard of that one before.
It's weird nobody mentioned the awesome Typematrix keyboard, and its Dvorak layout:Also haven't heard of that one before, and also pretty cool! All these nifty keyboard options make me slightly sad that my Corsair Vengeance K70 I bought back in 2014 is showing no signs of needing replacement anytime soon. :P
[…]
Well, at least it wasn't when I wrote it. Then I decided to keep it. :D†Pun not intended.Suuuuure.
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