Civilization VI - New Frontier Pass launches without Linux and macOS

Quoting: BlackBloodRumPorting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

With the broken Borderlands 2 they changed the status from "we fixed Mac and we'll get round to fixing Linux someday if we get round to it" to "we'll fix Mac someday if we get round to it" after it broke for a second time. That was months ago. There's no reason to think that they'll ever fix this one either. They haven't even said they will.

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

No one told Linux and Mac users about porting problems until half a day after release...
I would never critisize Aspyrs work of course, because I know nothing about it, but someone of them (especially if they read GOL, the Steam forums and social media) should have told us: "Oops.. we have unforeseen problems... please wait".
An when you feel Linux users are whining... have a look at the official Mac thread in the Civ6 Steam forums.. ;-)

Quoting: randyl

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: lqe5433Proton is too good. It's killing the Linux porting business.

In this case Proton doesn't work however..
Both DX11 and DX12 versions play the intro and then crash with a grey screen..

It's getting to the point where I want my games to have a native Linux client and work on Proton. Some native ports get neglected or lag. Sometimes Proton breaks. This is even a problem, to a lesser extent, on Windows with aging titles targeted at earlier Windows versions.

I wonder if Firaxis has their own anticheat system or DRM in place... Why else would both (the DX11 and DX12 binaries) crash with the same symptoms?

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

That's also the reason why I am barely reading the Steam forums for our own titles any more...
There are players with whom chatting/discussing is great. And there are the others. Those who refuse to realize that developers are people too (and therefore make mistakes), that budgets are limited, and deadlines can be missed if something unforeseen shows up (and, as everyone who ever worked in software development knows, there are always unforeseen things showing up - the art of the producer is to estimate how much of them show up, and how much time they might take :P )...

So, vented enough.
And just to make that clear: The GoL community is great. Lots of friendly people here.

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

The other platforms Aspyr is charged with porting this to, including Nintendo Switch, already received the update. Nintendo Switch doesn't have cross-platform multiplayer with Windows. Linux and Mac do, and they are now broken with no indication of when they will be fixed. In short, the game I've paid for is currently useless for the reason I bought it, and will be for the foreseeable future. Like I said, I don't even care about the new content. My goal was to continue playing the game that was working until they broke it. I don't care if they "want to keep porting for me" at this point, because they clearly don't value my business enough not to deliberately break the product I paid them for.

Edit: You're right, I shouldn't say they can "eat shit," and I apologize to anyone who was offended by that, including anyone from Aspyr who may be hanging out here. But the rest of what I said still stands. We are consumers just like everyone else, and we are not obligated to be grateful for whatever scraps we get because we're on a platform with lower market share. You know why? Because we are paying just as much as Windows users are paying. We are not being given a gift.


Last edited by areamanplaysgame on 23 May 2020 at 3:29 pm UTC

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.
it
Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

While I agree hostile offensive remarks are inappropriate, my empathy and concerns stops shortly after that. They're a business, not my friends. If they can't answer the question, "What have you done for me lately?" with a satisfactory answer then our business relationship is on the line.

The fact is they haven't ported BL2 DLC yet either and they are beyond 'excusably late' on that. Aspyr have shown a growing indifference to the Linux community and have arguably acted in bad faith by not fulfilling their business obligations. And I am not a happy customer about that.

While it is unacceptable to verbally lash out, it is equally as toxic for others to gaslight and hand-wave the hostile and predatory practices the industry regularly engages in. Aspyr made a business contract with some users claiming to support their platform. Now that they have the money they are not acting in good faith by supporting that platform. They not only deserve a good measure of blowback, but they need to hear it or they will simply lose customers on any platform. If they are shitty business partners to me on Linux through Steam, then I won't be their business partner on my PlayStation or Switch either.

Right now, it's a gamers market. There are more games being made now than ever. There are more games than people can play. Studios and publishers need us more than we need them. So if Aspyr does see these posts and gets salty, then fine because there are 10 other studios in line right behind them with games to sell. I don't need Aspyr. They need "me" (the collective me). So, instead of gamers apologizing for being mad, Aspyr should come in here, kiss our asses, and promise to try and do a much better job. That is how business is supposed to work. They work for us and our money, not the other way around.

Quoting: areamanplaysgame

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

The other platforms Aspyr is charged with porting this to, including Nintendo Switch, already received the update. Nintendo Switch doesn't have cross-platform multiplayer with Windows. Linux and Mac do, and they are now broken with no indication of when they will be fixed. In short, the game I've paid for is currently useless for the reason I bought it, and will be for the foreseeable future. Like I said, I don't even care about the new content. My goal was to continue playing the game that was working until they broke it. I don't care if they "want to keep porting for me" at this point, because they clearly don't value my business enough not to deliberately break the product I paid them for.

Edit: You're right, I shouldn't say they can "eat shit," and I apologize to anyone who was offended by that, including anyone from Aspyr who may be hanging out here. But the rest of what I said still stands. We are consumers just like everyone else, and we are not obligated to be grateful for whatever scraps we get because we're on a platform with lower market share. You know why? Because we are paying just as much as Windows users are paying. We are not being given a gift.

I understand your frustration here, and in some aspects you're absolutely correct, you've bought the game just like any other platform user.

But I believe your anger is misguided. They didn't break your game here, so far as I'm aware they didn't release an update, and that in turn has caused multiplayer to cease working between different game versions.

Now let's step back for a moment and see what's actually happened here.

2K are the primary developers of this game, they are the ones who've created the base game, DLC, and any required version/dlc checks for online play.

It seems to be 2K have released the Windows update (of which, Aspyr have no control over or say in) which has in turn caused multiplayer incompatibilities. No doubt, they were fully aware Aspyr were not ready. But they had announced a date, and had a deadline - and PR, managers etc etc said "Release it for Windows anyway, Linux and Mac users can wait".

It's true Aspyr didn't have the update ready in time, but they didn't do this on purpose, there could well be serious bugs that have caused them to not have the update ready in time, and naturally as I previously mentioned porters get the updates effectively last minute in development terms.

For all we know, 2K could have done a last minute bugfix update to the Windows version a few days prior to release, then sent it over to Aspyr who weren't able to ensure that bugfix works on Linux and Mac too, or it broke something on those platforms.

There are so many factors which can slow it down, it's really not funny. Sadly, Aspyr are not the primary developers, as such they have absolutely no say when a Windows update/DLC is dropped which can break compatibilities with other platforms.

Sad but true.

Unless we were find out exactly how and why this delay occurred, we can't really say it is fair to direct anger at them at this time.

Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: areamanplaysgame

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

The other platforms Aspyr is charged with porting this to, including Nintendo Switch, already received the update. Nintendo Switch doesn't have cross-platform multiplayer with Windows. Linux and Mac do, and they are now broken with no indication of when they will be fixed. In short, the game I've paid for is currently useless for the reason I bought it, and will be for the foreseeable future. Like I said, I don't even care about the new content. My goal was to continue playing the game that was working until they broke it. I don't care if they "want to keep porting for me" at this point, because they clearly don't value my business enough not to deliberately break the product I paid them for.

Edit: You're right, I shouldn't say they can "eat shit," and I apologize to anyone who was offended by that, including anyone from Aspyr who may be hanging out here. But the rest of what I said still stands. We are consumers just like everyone else, and we are not obligated to be grateful for whatever scraps we get because we're on a platform with lower market share. You know why? Because we are paying just as much as Windows users are paying. We are not being given a gift.

I understand your frustration here, and in some aspects you're absolutely correct, you've bought the game just like any other platform user.

But I believe your anger is misguided. They didn't break your game here, so far as I'm aware they didn't release an update, and that in turn has caused multiplayer to cease working between different game versions.

Now let's step back for a moment and see what's actually happened here.

2K are the primary developers of this game, they are the ones who've created the base game, DLC, and any required version/dlc checks for online play.

It seems to be 2K have released the Windows update (of which, Aspyr have no control over or say in) which has in turn caused multiplayer incompatibilities. No doubt, they were fully aware Aspyr were not ready. But they had announced a date, and had a deadline - and PR, managers etc etc said "Release it for Windows anyway, Linux and Mac users can wait".

It's true Aspyr didn't have the update ready in time, but they didn't do this on purpose, there could well be serious bugs that have caused them to not have the update ready in time, and naturally as I previously mentioned porters get the updates effectively last minute in development terms.

For all we know, 2K could have done a last minute bugfix update to the Windows version a few days prior to release, then sent it over to Aspyr who weren't able to ensure that bugfix works on Linux and Mac too, or it broke something on those platforms.

There are so many factors which can slow it down, it's really not funny. Sadly, Aspyr are not the primary developers, as such they have absolutely no say when a Windows update/DLC is dropped which can break compatibilities with other platforms.

Sad but true.

Unless we were find out exactly how and why this delay occurred, we can't really say it is fair to direct anger at them at this time.

I agree, but they could have told us about difficulties...

Anyhow.. it's an irony in intself, that the most cooperative existing OS seems to be no good choice to use here, because almost everyone uses the most uncooperative one..
That fact that people thoughtlessly give in to what big corporations do, frustrates me far more than Aspyr (maybe out of luck, and certainly without communication).

Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: areamanplaysgame

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

The other platforms Aspyr is charged with porting this to, including Nintendo Switch, already received the update. Nintendo Switch doesn't have cross-platform multiplayer with Windows. Linux and Mac do, and they are now broken with no indication of when they will be fixed. In short, the game I've paid for is currently useless for the reason I bought it, and will be for the foreseeable future. Like I said, I don't even care about the new content. My goal was to continue playing the game that was working until they broke it. I don't care if they "want to keep porting for me" at this point, because they clearly don't value my business enough not to deliberately break the product I paid them for.

Edit: You're right, I shouldn't say they can "eat shit," and I apologize to anyone who was offended by that, including anyone from Aspyr who may be hanging out here. But the rest of what I said still stands. We are consumers just like everyone else, and we are not obligated to be grateful for whatever scraps we get because we're on a platform with lower market share. You know why? Because we are paying just as much as Windows users are paying. We are not being given a gift.

I understand your frustration here, and in some aspects you're absolutely correct, you've bought the game just like any other platform user.

But I believe your anger is misguided. They didn't break your game here, so far as I'm aware they didn't release an update, and that in turn has caused multiplayer to cease working between different game versions.

Now let's step back for a moment and see what's actually happened here.

2K are the primary developers of this game, they are the ones who've created the base game, DLC, and any required version/dlc checks for online play.

It seems to be 2K have released the Windows update (of which, Aspyr have no control over or say in) which has in turn caused multiplayer incompatibilities. No doubt, they were fully aware Aspyr were not ready. But they had announced a date, and had a deadline - and PR, managers etc etc said "Release it for Windows anyway, Linux and Mac users can wait".

It's true Aspyr didn't have the update ready in time, but they didn't do this on purpose, there could well be serious bugs that have caused them to not have the update ready in time, and naturally as I previously mentioned porters get the updates effectively last minute in development terms.

For all we know, 2K could have done a last minute bugfix update to the Windows version a few days prior to release, then sent it over to Aspyr who weren't able to ensure that bugfix works on Linux and Mac too, or it broke something on those platforms.

There are so many factors which can slow it down, it's really not funny. Sadly, Aspyr are not the primary developers, as such they have absolutely no say when a Windows update/DLC is dropped which can break compatibilities with other platforms.

Sad but true.

Unless we were find out exactly how and why this delay occurred, we can't really say it is fair to direct anger at them at this time.

2K is the publisher, and they're a pretty bad publisher. I agree with you that Aspyr is not entirely to blame for this; all they did was divert resources to the other platforms they are developing for and leave Mac and Linux users high and dry. There may be more people playing a 4X game on consoles than on Mac and Linux, but I really doubt it. Nevertheless, Aspyr may well have had their priorities set by 2K in this regard.

My anger is not with Aspyr exclusively, but they're not blameless, and it's silly to assert that they are. If they get involved in projects that are handled this way (and their track record as detailed in this thread indicates that there is a pattern here), then I have to assume any other game they port in the future will be as unreliable as this one. Whatever part they played in this fiasco, they benefited financially from a group of customers who didn't get what they paid for. If that hurts their feelings, maybe they should consider what they could've done to avoid this situation.

We absolutely have the right to complain. In my profession, if I take someone's money and then don't do what they hired me to do, I have no right to expect them to hire me again or to be grateful for whatever I do deliver, whenever it gets done. Software developers are not exempt from this rule.

Quoting: randylThe fact is they haven't ported BL2 DLC yet either and they are beyond 'excusably late' on that. Aspyr have shown a growing indifference to the Linux community and have arguably acted in bad faith by not fulfilling their business obligations. And I am not a happy customer about that.

Yeah. I'm sort of curious when the people apologizing for Aspyr think we will be justified in complaining about this. If we wait two weeks and nothing materializes (as we have no real reason to expect it will), can we complain then? Two months? Two years? If we wait two years and then they release a statement saying, "Sorry we never delivered that update, but we're hard at work on the iPhone version of Sid Meier's Civilization VII now, so please buy that instead," do we get to complain then? Or do they still have no accountability?