Stadia gets Elder Scrolls Online on June 16, 1440p in web and more

Quoting: GuestGotcha, but I was expanding on your points to the common issue I read. Linux does flourish, in fact its growing, just not perhaps in areas you're aware of. Last I checked PC gaming itself was shrinking and if you're looking at just numbers, are you will to invest in an OS that's very muddy when it comes to future projections? I know Steam is helping here, but it may take awhile longer to have a case made.

What will happen to that growth and momentum if another propietary OS (ChromeOS) outgrows Linux? Google has the money to sell laptops (they already are) with ChromeOS installed. It could lead to another OS for Linux to compete with. With Stadia I believe Google has a strong case to gain marketshare. And that's just one service that Google has.

Quoting: GuestThat's quite rude, wanting for better wording? I gave you a point that you missed, not having to download extra libraries, drivers, proton, Valve etc. it a lot easier if you're wanting to jump right in with streaming that Staida provides, this attracts people who don't think about the angle you're coming from. Other streaming services may not so friendly to what we have on Linux, if I recall Geforce Now

I meant that Stadia can lead to ChromeOS success. And if we aren't careful we might end up contributing to ChromeOS far more than to Linux. There are already ChromeOS laptops on the market, and Google has had moderate success with them. If they make a bigger move to promote ChromeOS for gaming, it will outshine Linux.
ChromeOS comes with specs that are in line with the things you said Stadia doesn't need. Storage, memory, software etc. And ChromeOS is preinstalled on these laptops.

Quoting: GuestI don't like exclusives like that on any platform, Epic Store is a prime example, plus if you're into consoles you know they each have their exclusive games too. It's called competition however, of course they want it to be dominant, and is it OK if the exclusive isn't permanent?

It's a poor excuse for competition. Actual competition would be Google leveraging the benefits of Cloud to attract players to Stadia. Features like what they did with Ghost Recon (split screen cam views of fellow players). No, I don't find it OK. Because if you accept exclusivity they will continue to stretch that. It's OK if it's first party titles that Google themselves have developed from start to finish, but I wouldn't put it past companies like Google to pay for permanent exclusivity for third party games. If you accept a limited time exclusivity, they could move the goal post. Now the game is exclusive to Stadia on ChromeOS. It seems like a absurd thought, but that I think can surely happen if it becomes popular enough and Google has enough leeway to do that.

Quoting: GuestIsn't it already like that with Linux, go to GOG for example, are they fully supportive of Linux? Last I checked their launcher did not support Linux. I would argue with Valve's work on Linux/Proton we're better off now than ever before with the ability to play almost anywhere. Is Steam DRM? The effects with Stadia is unknown at this time, but again I get to play on Linux wherever I want and I am not limited to ChromeOS...Honestly, I can't blame developers wanting DRM, this is unpopular, but I know too many people, usually not linux ones weirdly lol, who are quick to pirate when they can.

GOG isn'tfully supportive no, but they do support Linux.They reported that their business was not doing so well. And in light of this, they had to drop a monetary benefit that buyers in certain region had. In other words, they dropped that benefit for all users (not just Linux) because they had to. It proves that they may be more restrained by costs than anything else. Ultimately they do support Linux, but more importantly they don't try to harm the platform.

Steam has DRM yes, but there are a big list of games that are DRM free. And Valve has not, to my knowledge, encouraged developers to add Denuvo to their games. And reason why Steam and Valve are not a issue is because they have been supporting us in so many ways over the years.

Quoting: GuestOverall though, I simply don't fully agree with your assessment, but time may and perhaps will tell one way or another.

According to netmarketshare, ChromeOS is at 0.42%. How accurate that number is, is for another discussion. But that's not far from Linux's 1.89%. Google has the brands and money. They have said they want to enter gaming space and use Youtube to promote Stadia. If they make a major push for gaming on ChromeOS with Stadia laptops, what do you think that will do to Linux? Do you think average users will think "I'll install Linux on my ChromeOS laptop and enjoy Linux gamin with Stadia"? No, they will stick to ChromeOS, and why not? From what I've heard they don't seem like bad laptops.

I could be entirely wrong in my thinking. But I find that the puzzles all line up perfectly for such business strategy, if that's what Google intends with ChromeOS and Stadia.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 28 May 2020 at 3:10 pm UTC

Quoting: Guest@linuxwarper, thank you for that awesome writeup :).

Glad that my points came across the way I meant them to:) Those are my concerns for Stadia. But as has been stated many times, Stadia is good in that it will help Vulkan adoption. It also can improve Linux ecosystem, with more work being done for issues Google has with running Stadia servers (It's Debian), which could came back to benefiting the platform as a whole.

Quoting: LinuxwarperWhat will happen to that growth and momentum if another propietary OS (ChromeOS) outgrows Linux? Google has the money to sell laptops (they already are) with ChromeOS installed. It could lead to another OS for Linux to compete with. With Stadia I believe Google has a strong case to gain marketshare. And that's just one service that Google has.

I'm actually hoping for ChromeOS to prosper. Oh, sure, it's not precisely Linux--but it's a lot closer than Android. It's basically Linux crippled. For Google to expand it beyond its niche, one thing they'll probably need to do is expand its capabilities by bringing more of Linux back in. It's going to be really hard for them to end up with a ChromeOS that runs things that can't be made to run in Linux. The bottom line for me is, growth in ChromeOS reduces the effectiveness of Windows lock-in and network effects, and does so with an OS that is basically Linux.
And as you note, it is currently smaller than Linux proper. It is blocked by the same lock-out barriers Linux is blocked by, and unless and until it gets a far, far larger market share its expansion is going to have to involve getting rid of them for all, not just for ChromeOS. When you're tiny and try to create lock-in, you just get whacked by the network effects of the bigger fish--you actually lock yourself out.
So looking at Stadia--sure, Stadia is potentially a tool for growing ChromeOS. But it is to the exact same extent a tool for growing Linux, and for that matter MacOS. And it's going to have to stay that way to work; they might be able to close it down and exclude other platforms if ChromeOS gets to, I dunno, 30% of the desktop. Talk to me again when we're in that kind of territory. In the mean time, Stadia is a cross-platform thing and an illustration of the kinds of tactics Google will need to use to grow ChromeOS, which are essentially the same ones proper Linux tends to use--encouraging cross-platform things so that the playing field with Windows is more level.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: GuestLast I checked PC gaming itself was shrinking

Is it? I mean, at this point the majority of PC gaming involves Steam. And Steam is growing, has been fairly consistently for years. For PC gaming overall to be shrinking, everything outside Steam would have to be friggin' imploding, which doesn't seem to be the case.

It's the old tale lol:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pc-gaming-is-in-a-decline-and-deserves-to-be-2019-07-03

These views don't represent my own, but it's possible they could sway those management types with no PC gaming experience.

@linuxwarper, thank you for that awesome writeup :).

Glad those views don't represent yours, 'cause it seems a silly article. Someone had a vaguely reasonable take on trends in game design, and dearly wanted that to be bad for sales so that they could have some reason to suggest maybe the studios should stop doing the bad things. But it's rubbish.
Sure, a fair number of years ago few people had smartphones and fewer gamed on them. Now almost everyone has a smartphone and lots of that almost everyone games with them. So, their percentage of "the game market" has grown massively--by creating a whole new game market with a whole new stack of revenue. And since the percentages have to add up to 100, that means everyone else "shrank".
But that's a stupid measure, certainly in this case. Mobile games didn't displace immobile gaming platforms; those people the author mentions waiting for buses did not, before mobile phones, wait for buses while playing games on their desktop or their XBone. It's really a different market; combining them to make a point is misleading.
The question is, has the PC gaming market grown or shrunk--in, like, dollars? The author never mentioned that. Far as I can tell, it's fairly definitely grown quite a bit.

Also it seems a bit of a reach to be saying "The PC market is shrinking because it's been making crappy games that are influenced by the way they make games . . . on the platform that's growing spectacularly!" Uh, sure, whatever. Really, I'd be happy to be able to say that PC game sales are being hurt by the kind of crap the article's author takes aim at, but I've seen no evidence that's the case. Although the backlash against loot boxes seems to have been strong enough to shift the fashion against them, which is nice.


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 28 May 2020 at 11:28 pm UTC

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI'm actually hoping for ChromeOS to prosper. Oh, sure, it's not precisely Linux--but it's a lot closer than Android. It's basically Linux crippled. For Google to expand it beyond its niche, one thing they'll probably need to do is expand its capabilities by bringing more of Linux back in. It's going to be really hard for them to end up with a ChromeOS that runs things that can't be made to run in Linux. The bottom line for me is, growth in ChromeOS reduces the effectiveness of Windows lock-in and network effects, and does so with an OS that is basically Linux.
And as you note, it is currently smaller than Linux proper. It is blocked by the same lock-out barriers Linux is blocked by, and unless and until it gets a far, far larger market share its expansion is going to have to involve getting rid of them for all, not just for ChromeOS. When you're tiny and try to create lock-in, you just get whacked by the network effects of the bigger fish--you actually lock yourself out.
So looking at Stadia--sure, Stadia is potentially a tool for growing ChromeOS. But it is to the exact same extent a tool for growing Linux, and for that matter MacOS. And it's going to have to stay that way to work; they might be able to close it down and exclude other platforms if ChromeOS gets to, I dunno, 30% of the desktop. Talk to me again when we're in that kind of territory. In the mean time, Stadia is a cross-platform thing and an illustration of the kinds of tactics Google will need to use to grow ChromeOS, which are essentially the same ones proper Linux tends to use--encouraging cross-platform things so that the playing field with Windows is more level.

I think Linux has a real chance to be used more with things are going, with Proton, Valve and Vulkan. If ChromeOS is marketed towards gamers more heavily, it will without a doubt take users away from proper Linux. At same time you could be right, the hold Microsoft has on the industry could be to hard to break with Valve alone.I find it hard to believe that Ubisoft chose Vulkan for their games simply because of performance it gave. Stadia had to be another reason why they chose it.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 29 May 2020 at 1:00 am UTC