Steam Cloud Gaming confirmed with Steam Cloud Play

I'd hold ya breaths until we see a formal announcement for what this means for users. I'm really curious to see what Valve does with this. I think it'll be big.

[...]We already do not own our games, we license them. [...]

I am reading this so often lately. But did you already look up how many games on Steam you DO own?
There's quite a huge list of DRM-free games on Steam. https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games
Also quite some big titles on this list.
The worrying part about the perception getting spreaded about Steam game ownership is, that people might think that they don't lose anything with cloud gaming, since they already don't own any games anymore (which isn't true as you can see - especially with GoG ofc). But there actually is a loss of ownership when comparing cloud gaming to Steam.
If you might be fine with not owning games is another topic and not the one I intend to discuss in this post.

I wonder if we will eventually be able to get VR through streaming, since Valve is so invested on it now?

Highly doubt it. Streaming, as good as it might be, doesn't fit all genres. That's why Gabe spoke out against streaming many years ago. RTS games or whatever can be played just fine if there's a slight delay. In VR it destroys everything.

However unlikely I'd die if Google (Stadia) and Valve formed a partnership.

I wonder if we will eventually be able to get VR through streaming, since Valve is so invested on it now?

For VR to be bearable for the average person they need a high framerate (I forget what the minimum comfortable level was), but trying to stream, say, 144FPS with current infrastructure is hard to achieve. It's an interesting technical challenge that may require creating of a new data transfer protocol, various new types of hardware,...

I wonder if we will eventually be able to get VR through streaming, since Valve is so invested on it now?

For VR to be bearable for the average person they need a high framerate (I forget what the minimum comfortable level was), but trying to stream, say, 144FPS with current infrastructure is hard to achieve. It's an interesting technical challenge that may require creating of a new data transfer protocol, various new types of hardware,...

The FPS aren't the problem, but the input delay, If the image is processed at a server far away it needs to reach your home without any delay. If you add just 10ms to what's already there, it might cause problems.

What's the point of Cloud Gaming if you still need a specific OS (Windows) to be able to use it?

With Stadia I can at least play games that cannot be installed on my system (Linux).

However unlikely I'd die if Google (Stadia) and Valve formed a partnership.

Horrible idea! :O

What's the point of Cloud Gaming if you still need a specific OS (Windows) to be able to use it?

Hmm?

However unlikely I'd die if Google (Stadia) and Valve formed a partnership.

Horrible idea! :O

Google getting bored of Stadia and Valve taking the infrastructure, and stable of Linux-native games, off their hands at a knock-down price to make available through Steam wouldn't be a terrible outcome, though.

I wonder if we will eventually be able to get VR through streaming, since Valve is so invested on it now?

For VR to be bearable for the average person they need a high framerate (I forget what the minimum comfortable level was), but trying to stream, say, 144FPS with current infrastructure is hard to achieve. It's an interesting technical challenge that may require creating of a new data transfer protocol, various new types of hardware,...

The FPS aren't the problem, but the input delay, If the image is processed at a server far away it needs to reach your home without any delay. If you add just 10ms to what's already there, it might cause problems.

This isn't actually entirely unsolvable..

It can be solved with streaming, but you just need to stream more than just the raw image that's going to the headset.

You'd need to stream a 360 degree image instead. It would need to be a large resolution to compensate of course. As a performance optimisation however, you could broadcast the video with varying pixel density resolution. And put the most pixel density in the direction the user is looking, and gradually taper off the pixel density to a lower level for the parts of the image behind the user.

To make it really work well, you'd need to also stream a depth buffer stream as well. Using that, you could reproject the 360 degree video stream, to adjust for the user's local current headset rotation and position.

This could actually result in LESS latency than current VR, because the local machine wouldn't need to do any complex rendering of a large environment, just reprojecting an image.

Unfortunately it would do nothing for the latency between moving your hands and the virtual hands moving. But with the depth image of the 360 degree image, you could just render the hands separately and mix it with the video stream. You can do that when you got a depth buffer. It's just like the old PS1 games with their prerendered backgrounds.

There's ways in theory to make VR work via game streaming.


Last edited by gradyvuckovic on 28 May 2020 at 11:24 pm UTC

just meh another service for the northern hemisphere and other few countries.

Well... If anything services like these creates demand for this kind of infrastructure and eventually make it happen. I'm born (not live there anymore but I maintain connections) in one of the richest provinces in the world as avg income, in the heart of Europe. But it's a mountainous territory and the people is backward in many ways. The home Internet service level for households there is on par with remote territories of the Southern hemisphere as you would put it. Yet people don't complain much (4G is enough for casual usages). When talking with politicians, even of my age, I've always been dismissed as a guy fixated with unreasonable things (thing is industries and institutions have access to Corea level fiber infrastructure, the household access restriction is purely a political built up thing. The backbone is there and is even County owned).
Stuff like Netflix, stadia and (now) covid is helping making people open the eyes into the big opportunity and investment that are Telcom infrastructures. Any new addition is welcome. People is finally asking for fast internet in addition to money for tangible things like farming or roads. You don't urge the world to move by crippling the vanguards.


Last edited by Mal on 28 May 2020 at 2:10 pm UTC

Not that much hyped by that announcement. Let's hope it's only the first step. Wake me up when Valve put forward it's own infrastructure and streaming service.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 28 May 2020 at 2:53 pm UTC

I'm hoping whatever Valve is cooking with Steam Cloud will be a improved Remote Play. That is what I will be using. I don't think Geforce Now will be only stream service with Steam Cloud. I won't be using Geforce Now nor Stadia.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 28 May 2020 at 3:15 pm UTC

I think they are a bit late versus stadia, so by now it is Geforce Now only.
Steam has the software and everything needed to provide cloud gaming, maybe they just need more time.

However unlikely I'd die if Google (Stadia) and Valve formed a partnership.

Horrible idea! :O

Google getting bored of Stadia and Valve taking the infrastructure, and stable of Linux-native games, off their hands at a knock-down price to make available through Steam wouldn't be a terrible outcome, though.

That must be utopia! :)

I am reading this so often lately. But did you already look up how many games on Steam you DO own?
There's quite a huge list of DRM-free games on Steam. https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games
Also quite some big titles on this list.
The worrying part about the perception getting spreaded about Steam game ownership is, that people might think that they don't lose anything with cloud gaming, since they already don't own any games anymore (which isn't true as you can see - especially with GoG ofc). But there actually is a loss of ownership when comparing cloud gaming to Steam.
If you might be fine with not owning games is another topic and not the one I intend to discuss in this post.

You make a great point and as a long time DRM-FREE gamer that recently got into Steam and now Stadia, I have to say that keeping my library of games working throughout the years has been a chore that I would like to avoid going forward. As a working father/grandfather with kids spread out across the US, Steam and now Stadia have made it very easy for me to connect and play with my loved ones that are not in my own home.

We still rock a good amount of DRM-FREE titles from GOG, direct from devs, freeware, itch.io, Desura (defunct), Humble Bundle and more but as time has moved forward and devs have abandoned those games and modding communities around those games shrinking or becoming vapor I've had to change my gaming diet to better stay connected with those that I love. Out of the 32 games I own on Steam 3 are not DRM-FREE. None of them work for online MP without Steam unless I use Parsec (which requires a Windows Host).

I don't see many from this generation going all in Cloud gaming and I'm still going to be getting my first first from GOG then Steam and then Stadia or bust...but I can see ppl walking away from all the other ways of gaming over time if the ease of use is not better advocated for. Shoutout to Puppy Games who does DRM-FREE the right way. Everything you need is self-contained and ready to roll.

If we link a geforce account to steam we probably can rum the games via streaming without having geforce now installed. What would the point be If you still had to geforce now run at the sane time.

You can already stream from geforce now to a Linux PC running geforce now on a smartphone.

You have a missconception about latin america, maybe?

No. I wrongly assumed that

just meh another service for the northern hemisphere and other few countries.

was about launching a service that half of the world can't benefit from due to technical limitations.

If you concern is about purchasing power I would say that cloud gaming could actually benefit low income countries more than high ones. It's a definitely cheaper access cost to buy a game and play on cloud (even for a monthly fee) than buy all the hardware and then play the game. But I admit I've no idea how much a modern nvidia card cost in emerging countries so I may be totally wrong here. I guess hardware cost is proportional to purchasing power like for games prices?

My post instead was about technical limitations in places where there shouldn't be. If I have to compare the download speed at my parents house with steam download statistics it sits in between Angola and Namibia average numbers. And, as I said, it's not they live in a remote village of a low GDP per capita region. Their in the third city by size of a region that is on top of European statistics (the purple area in link. By contrast now I'm living in a blue one, although in the regional capital. And I've a connection that is on par with avg South Corea according again to Steam.

My point is, even in first world, not all people is young and connected and demographics are not evenly distributed. So where I see Internet and cloud services as opportunities for remote jobs, faster production tools, easier access to knowledge, useful services and then entertainment as well, many voters just see nothing more than costly playthings (Netflix at best or free porns at worse, depending on how backwards they are). And apart from big cities where connections are widely available because it's easier for private investors to recoup the costs, politicians in charge of non-metropolitan areas often don't have the interest pushing to make adequate Internet access to their voters. Because their electors themselves largely don't care (at least before corona). As a consequence the more dynamic people migrate in the cities. And those that go away (like me lol) are less voters asking for a better Internet.

Ofc these things won't change just because Valve starts offering cloud. My point is that little by little, offer by offer and service by service, general public will start to realize how having performing connections will increase their quality of life. And push for having access to that. So having a new cloud service that only half of the world can use, is actually good for the world as a whole.


Last edited by Mal on 28 May 2020 at 6:31 pm UTC

i dont get it why nvidia has a client for STREAMING

why isnt it like stadia with a browser... should be way less maintaining