Supraland is leaving GOG after less than a year, dev says sales were low

There is no possible way DRM can be considered as a good thing. I do play DRM'd games because if it's a matter of choosing between playing or not playing a title, when the game is really good I can overlook this stuff, but I still think it is crap. There is no DRM that can prevent a game to be cracked. It ranks from obstrusive hacks to complete rootkits, and only come as a penalty for legit users.

On topic, my only comment is that if this dev is enjoying some sort of success right now, with that kind of behavior, he's probably not going to get any kind of following from his audience. It has nothing to do with talent, I think this game is good enough, but this is definitely the wrong attitude towards his customers. It could work for a larger company like Activision or EA (to name two of the worst I can think of), but for indie devs, it could be fatal.

Quoting: mphuZ

Quote..how in relation to DRM-free gaming that "98-99% of players don't care"

But it's true. Does anyone disagree?

If anyone agrees with DRM, they're insane. That's actively being okay with your rights being diminished. Convenience is a whole different argument remember, that should be entirely separate. There's also a big difference between not caring and not actually understanding how shite some DRM really is.

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: mphuZ

Quote..how in relation to DRM-free gaming that "98-99% of players don't care"

But it's true. Does anyone disagree?

If anyone agrees with DRM, they're insane. That's actively being okay with your rights being diminished. Convenience is a whole different argument remember, that should be entirely separate. There's also a big difference between not caring and not actually understanding how shite some DRM really is.

True - if you had to choose between a Steam with DRM and a Steam without, no-one (absolutely no-one) would choose the DRM version.

But of course, I do choose Steam over GOG, and that's because of convenience. I like the time tracking, the achievements, the friend notifications, workshop mods, chat, and easy voice integration, I benefit from their multiplayer framework. I value the auto-updates, integrated Proton and one-click installs. GOG has... none of that, but they're DRM-free, and they're better curated. Maybe if you're on Windows, GOG is a better proposition - you have the Galaxy client that at least offers some of the Steam features I just listed.

Itch is certainly miles ahead of GOG these days, for us penguins.

Quoting: damarrinI tried the demo for this and the performance was indeed horrible. Shame, as it’s supposedly very good.

I think this is may be one of those cases where hardware makes all the difference and confounds a dev new to Linux. The game played clean and smooth on my system, whereas you and others had problems --- which is terrible because it really is quite a fun game.


Last edited by Nanobang on 10 June 2020 at 11:23 am UTC

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: GuestIt is worth to note that the developer didn't support linux, he just compiled it for linux with unreal and released it without tweaking anything. The "port" performs very poorly. I read this on the steam forums a few months ago and I saw the dev recommending proton and that he wants to drop the native version.

Weird, it was running flawlessly for me, and I put in quite a few hours into it, though stopped playing it for some reason (I do that randomly though, nothing against the game).

Same here, on both counts.

It ran perfectly for me. For those whom it's run poorly, as has been the case not infrequently in the past, I'm thinking it's gonna be an AMD / Nvidia / dev inexperience thing.

(I also quit playing after several hours of enjoyment. I think mostly because the puzzles started requiring some real thought, and my tired brain is so rarely up for those kind of challenges in my entertainment. I've discovered to my dismay over the years that I'm much more a "see bad thing, shoot bad thing" kind of player.)

Quoting: Liam DaweIf anyone agrees with DRM, they're insane. That's actively being okay with your rights being diminished. Convenience is a whole different argument remember, that should be entirely separate. There's also a big difference between not caring and not actually understanding how shite some DRM really is.

If you omit the conspiracy theory and so on, then normal DRM is not dangerous and everything is fine with it.

Quoting: mphuZ

Quoting: Liam DaweIf anyone agrees with DRM, they're insane. That's actively being okay with your rights being diminished. Convenience is a whole different argument remember, that should be entirely separate. There's also a big difference between not caring and not actually understanding how shite some DRM really is.

If you omit the conspiracy theory and so on, then normal DRM is not dangerous and everything is fine with it.

So what qualifies as "normal DRM"? As far as I can tell, there is no conspiracy theory around it, just some technical facts and gross implementations in some cases. Indeed some DRM solutions can be better, but at the end of the day it is still inefficient against piracy and can break a game completely when you have a legit copy. It brings more trouble than it solves.


Last edited by omer666 on 10 June 2020 at 6:37 pm UTC

Quoting: mphuZIf you omit the conspiracy theory and so on, then normal DRM is not dangerous and everything is fine with it.

DRM is malicious by definition. So you can't omit "conspiracy theory", or rather to rephrase it in normal terms, you can't start treating DRM as harmless and something to ever be trusted, because it's always aimed against you.

DRM doesn't trust you and treats you as a potential criminal apriory. So even from basic security perspective, you should treat DRM as a malware apriori in return. Trust can only be mutual.

And there is no such thing as "normal" DRM, because DRM is always an overreaching preemptive policing aimed against the user. It's unethical because it's overreaching and preemptive.


Last edited by Shmerl on 10 June 2020 at 7:01 pm UTC

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: mphuZIf you omit the conspiracy theory and so on, then normal DRM is not dangerous and everything is fine with it.

DRM is malicious by definition. So you can't omit "conspiracy theory", or rather to rephrase it in normal terms, you can't start treating DRM as harmless and something to ever be trusted, because it's always aimed against you.

DRM doesn't trust you and treats you as a potential criminal apriory. So even from basic security perspective, you should treat DRM as a malware apriori in return. Trust can only be mutual.

And there is no such thing as "normal" DRM, because DRM is always an overreaching preemptive policing aimed against the user. It's unethical because it's overreaching and preemptive.

There is one benefit the DRM!

Spoiler, click me

It keeps some hackers busy doing other things than trying to break security on our bank accounts!

Quoting: scaineBut of course, I do choose Steam over GOG, and that's because of convenience. I like the time tracking, the achievements, the friend notifications, workshop mods, chat, and easy voice integration, I benefit from their multiplayer framework. I value the auto-updates, integrated Proton and one-click installs. GOG has... none of that, but they're DRM-free, and they're better curated. Maybe if you're on Windows, GOG is a better proposition - you have the Galaxy client that at least offers some of the Steam features I just listed.

This a hundred times over. I barely ever buy anything on GOG anymore because the linux gaming experience on Steam is just better. I recently tried to get a game going from GOG using Lutris and after half an hour trying to get it to work I just gave up! Steam has totally spoiled me.

Anyway a little more to the point, I think you guys are being too tough on the devs and not tough enough on GOG. The DRM-free crowd is by-and-large the linux crowd; GOG has taken the awkward position of appealing to the ideals of this group but not their convenience.