Devs quit Skullgirls and Indivisible studio Lab Zero Games, issues with studio owner

Quoting: ElectroDDI've read part of the senior animator letter, and that's the typical snowflake fake complain when things don't go their way.

I find it hard to believe how people are able to call other people "snowflakes" when the core of their grievance is "(clutches pearls) They're saying mean things about him! Make them stop! Who cares if they're true--people shouldn't be allowed to say mean things!"
Of course these same people are generally fine with saying mean things as long as it's not against prosperous white male assholes.

Article updated with some extra info and context.

Whilst i agree that we shouldn't take actions of our own and let a court of law decide who is guilty, this case looks like a shitshow to me. A lot of people are quitting their jobs, that's not something you'd do overnight, when this many people quit, you KNOW it was a case of occuring harrasment and such.

I agree we are not organs of law, i agree we shouldn't take action of our own, i agree the guilt and punishment should be porportional, but making accusations on social media is sometimes the only way people have to get their voices heard.

Still, I'm against cance(r)l culture. The companies who have severed their ties should have waited for results of a court of law, and then taken action.

Holy shit. I shouldn't be surprised that the comments of a Linux gaming website has such headass takes, but yet here I am. I don't know if it's my bad for thinking the climate might improve over time, or y'all's bad for going bad-faith against the victims and playing devil's advocate in favor of the abuser. It's always about "cancel culture! cancel culture! cancel culture!" I'm sick of hearing about the "cancel culture" boogeyman every time news of abuse comes out and a community takes action to make things right. If that means ousting someone in a position of power, I'm personally in favor of making sure the door hits them on the way out.

I'm glad the article at least is straight to the point with the facts of the matter. Those who left Lab Zero did so because Mike Z created an unsafe work environment with his behavior. There's no "snowflake" stuff at play here. If you think that an employee should endure that sort of behavior from an employer, you're messed in the head and part of what enables garbage people like him to continue to be garbage.

Cybik didn't even work for L0 in any sense of the word; he was a volunteer who kept the code in sync and he left in solidarity with the employees who quit. He's been doing all that work for free and he's got a better moral sense than half of the people in this comment area.


Last edited by TiZ on 25 August 2020 at 6:00 pm UTC

Quoting: TiZI shouldn't be surprised that the comments of a Linux gaming website has such headass takes, but yet here I am.

I've actually been wrestling with this idea for a while. This site has not been so bad, probably largely because the content is usually benign (maybe not the right word, don't take offense Liam). But, it does not take much searching to see awful comments coming from the linux community. The most recent thing that pops in my mind is when Gnome recently changed their code of conduct.

So, the questions run through my head: Are these mindsets indicative of the majority of linux users, or is it the usual vocal minority aholes that like to spend all day on comment sections / reddit? And if this IS the way most linux users act, how do I feel about being associated with them? And, is this actually more toxic than windows gamers / users?

My guess is that other communities are just as toxic, which is depressing to say the least. But, I don't really know. All I know is that the one that I am in IS toxic.


Last edited by shawnsterp on 25 August 2020 at 8:11 pm UTC

Quoting: shawnsterpor is it the usual vocal majority aholes

They're certainly vocal, but why do you assume they're a majority?

Quoting: shawnsterpMy guess is that other communities are just as toxic

No need to guess, go look in the comments on any major PC gaming website for all sorts of subjects - they're all pretty terrible. We're somewhat unique, as we cover a niche and have a much lower volume of comments. However, like all communities, we also have some people with very polarizing ideas and some people feel the need to comment constantly on things they don't like. In short: all communities have weird people in them.

People know my stance on things though and the wider stance of GOL as a website: support developers, be kind to people, fuck racism and sexism.

Quoting: shawnsterpI've actually been wrestling with this idea for a while. This site has not been so bad, probably largely because the content is usually benign (maybe not the right word, don't take offense Liam). But, it does not take much searching to see awful comments coming from the linux community. The most recent thing that pops in my mind is when Gnome recently changed their code of conduct.

So, the questions run through my head: Are these mindsets indicative of the majority of linux users, or is it the usual vocal majority aholes that like to spend all day on comment sections / reddit? And if this IS the way most linux users act, how do I feel about being associated with them? And, is this actually more toxic than windows gamers / users?

I'm pretty sure it's a minority of very vocal people who get triggered by certain words ("code of conduct" is a typical example) and whose behaviour has a chilling effect, which means that they are in every thread that relates to certain issues and their voice gets further amplified by the fact that people who don't share their opinions don't want to have anything to do with what those threads tend to devolve into. At least when I need to deal with the GOL stuff with Liam, the same names come up time and again.

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: shawnsterpor is it the usual vocal majority aholes

They're certainly vocal, but why do you assume they're a majority?

Lol, typo. Fixed, thanks.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: PatolaFrom the said joke, I had not understand at the time I read this was an allusion to George Floyd, indeed. Anyway, this look like dark humor to me, insensitivity to George's death, not necessarily racism only because George was black.

I keep my point that this is cancel culture, which tries to skip trial and due process.

You know, I'm in my fifties. Back in the 1970s or 80s I don't remember anyone thinking you had to have a trial and due process before you were allowed to say something nasty about someone. So I don't think saying nasty things about people without first holding a trial represents "cancel culture". It's kind of incoherent as an idea--how do you try someone for the right to say nasty things about them without first saying the nasty things you want to be allowed to say?

If you're so hung up on trials, it seems to me the shoe is on the other foot--if they're lying, let him sue them for libel.

I'm also in my fifties. I remember back then we called it "burning your bridges" and people were held accountable for making vulgar comments in business. This isn't something he said 2 decades ago and has changed his heart and mind. Then it would be "cancel culture" to make him pay, like Canadian "conservatives" tried with the blackface and Trudeau fiasco. No, this is him reaping the consequences of his obejctionable behavior with those he directly affected.

I hope he learns his lesson and changes his ways. None of us are perfect and I believe we all deserve second chances, once we've actually changed our behavior, but not until then. I don't care about the games either way since they're not really my jam so it won't affect me, but I can empathize with those workers being forced to decide between their careers and income or putting up with a hostile environment. I applaud their courage.