Google announces another three games confirmed for Stadia

Quoting: Liam Daweid software don't support Linux, never have. You must be confusing them with something else. They previously released some unsupported binaries for old titles many years ago, plus some open source engines but they've never supported Linux proper.

True enough... I've got a Quake3 metal box around here somewhere, but that wasn't from iD, it was from Loki.

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: BaronVonSuckonormally known for Linux support (iD).

id software don't support Linux, never have. You must be confusing them with something else. They previously released some unsupported binaries for old titles many years ago, plus some open source engines but they've never supported Linux proper.

You're wrong. Until 2012 they did support Linux. Until John Carmack said in 2012 that Linux is not worth the effort anymore.

Quoteid Software was an early pioneer in the Linux gaming market, and id Software's Linux games have been some of the most popular of the platform. Many id Software games won the Readers' and Editors' Choice awards of Linux Journal. Some id Software titles ported to Linux are Doom (the first id Software game to be ported), Quake, Quake II, Quake III Arena, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Doom 3, Quake 4, and Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. Since id Software and some of its licensees released the source code for some of their previous games, several games which were not ported (such as Wolfenstein 3D, Spear of Destiny, Heretic, Hexen, Hexen II, and Strife) can run on Linux and other operating systems natively through the use of source ports. Quake Live also launched with Linux support, although this, alongside OS X support, was later removed when changed to a standalone title.
(...)
However, on April 25, 2012, Carmack revealed that "there are no plans for a native Linux client" of id's most recent game, Rage. In February 2013, Carmack argued for improving emulation as the "proper technical direction for gaming on Linux", though this was also due to ZeniMax's refusal to support "unofficial binaries", given all prior ports (except for Quake III Arena, via Loki Software, and earlier versions of Quake Live) having only ever been unofficial. Carmack didn't mention official games Quake: The Offering and Quake II: Colossus ported by id Software to Linux and published by Macmillan Computer Publishing USA.

-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Software#Linux_gaming

Quoting: GuestActually iD never supported GNU/Linux from a legal perspective. The binaries were maintained for a while, they were released to the community, engine source releases could build, but as a saleable product there was never official customer support for GNU/Linux.

That is what I was trying to get across. They didn't officially support the Linux builds, or actually properly sell them. Most of the time it was just thrown up as an additional download you could do, because 1 or 2 people thought it was cool to do. The only time it was official, it was an external port and that was a very long time ago.

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: randylIf those studios are making Linux binaries for Stadia why aren't they publishing them to desktop users?

This same question seems to come up constantly - Market Share. We have 1% so most developers don't care. In the case of Stadia, it has Google's backing and Google are paying some developers to do it. I wouldn't be surprised if Stadia already had more users than Linux desktop gamers...

Quoting: randylSo far I'm not seeing Stadia benefiting the Linux desktop at all other than access to a game otherwise unplayable natively on Linux.

Well, it doesn't have to benefit the Linux desktop, it's just another option - one that's better it works than not working. More options are good.

I understand where you're coming from but there are mixed messages coming across here. Both on the site and in Discord discussions it is often mentioned how easy it can be to export a Linux build, especially for Unity developers. People raged because Hades didn't have a Linux port. All of these Stadia games have already had most of the heavy work done with the ports. It should be even less effort to package a Linux build and put it on a Steam depot, Humble, GoG, or some other store front. If the developer or publisher isn't willing to put for the effort to release an already built Linux package that doesn't bode well for adoption and undermines the idea that Stadia is pushing Linux gaming forward at all. It also undermines the idea that supporting Stadia is somehow better for Linux than using Geforce Now or Luna which arguably have better catalog listings.

Quoting: randylit is often mentioned how easy it can be to export a Linux build, especially for Unity developers

There's a big difference between exporting a build in a game engine, to actively supporting it across different sets of hardware and the underlying system. I've lost count of how many times I've said to people that support is the most important thing. That is entirely what Stadia takes away, the support burden is a singular platform plus Google pay directly for ports and help developers get on board. We don't have anyone doing that for the Linux desktop. Valve decided to do Proton instead.

Quoting: randylundermines the idea that Stadia is pushing Linux gaming forward at all

I don't think anyone has said seriously that Stadia pushes Linux gaming forwards. It is a different platform, that just so happens to use Linux + Vulkan for its builds, and supports playing on Linux through a browser the same as you would for it on Windows. Helps developers learn a little more Linux and Vulkan, which may be good in the end - that is all. It won't push Linux gaming, and it cannot, since Linux still has only ~1% market share.

I'd argue that even if Linux had 5% marketshare, Google would be opposed to the companies porting their games to Linux as well. So Stadia isn't only anti local play but also anti Linux. Linux is largely about choice, just because Stadia gives you a choice today doesn't mean in future it won't take one away. I wish I could say otherwise, but honestly that's what the end game seems to be with Stadia.

Quoting: GuestI doubt Google cares about porting games to desktop GNU/Linux. They likely wouldn't mind it too much, if it means an easier development time should the title want to arrive on Stadia one day; they're not actively against it, but aren't pushing for it either. Desktop simply isn't their market area.

There is no doubt, they don't want to port games to Linux. I am not trying to make a big point out of all this but if Google's market is streaming, why are they working on Steam support for ChromeOS? One can easily understand why, they are creating momentum for gaming on Chromebooks which at one point will be steered to strictly streaming.

Quoting: Linuxwarper

Quoting: GuestI doubt Google cares about porting games to desktop GNU/Linux. They likely wouldn't mind it too much, if it means an easier development time should the title want to arrive on Stadia one day; they're not actively against it, but aren't pushing for it either. Desktop simply isn't their market area.

There is no doubt, they don't want to port games to Linux. I am not trying to make a big point out of all this but if Google's market is streaming, why are they working on Steam support for ChromeOS? One can easily understand why, they are creating momentum for gaming on Chromebooks which at one point will be steered to strictly streaming.

What I have understood from little bit of Stadia demos that I watched is that Google trying to offer tools for developers that benefit from cloud and wouldn't necessarily even be feasible on desktop. One of the demos I saw was something that makes games work better with large number of players.

Especially in that kind of scenario things are easier for Google if games are run on Linux. They can scale things up much easier if they can strip down the operating system to essentials without having to have Internet Explorer and Solitaire installed on every instance. They don't have to negotiate with Microsoft for Windows licenses either. Microsoft is competing with Google and Amazon on the cloud side anyway, depending on competitor is bit risky business.

So in short is that Google might not see Steam as big enough threat for Stadia that they would have paid attention what ChromeOS team is doing. Besides more users playing games on Linux means developers are more interested in making native Linux ports, which in turn makes it easier for developers to port their games to Stadia and that in turn makes it more likely to developers notice the exclusive Stadia features.

Quoting: AnzaEspecially in that kind of scenario things are easier for Google if games are run on Linux.

Define Linux in this context. Debian? Any of the major Linux distributions? Or Google's fork of Debian? And if it runs on Google's Stadia customized Debian, there is little to no guarantee the game will run on Linux. Google could also diverge on the path of Debian further to point that their Debian may become so different to vanilla Debian that porting games would be cumbersome.

Quoting: AnzaSo in short is that Google might not see Steam as big enough threat for Stadia that they would have paid attention what ChromeOS team is doing. Besides more users playing games on Linux means developers are more interested in making native Linux ports, which in turn makes it easier for developers to port their games to Stadia and that in turn makes it more likely to developers notice the exclusive Stadia features.

It seems to be a conscious decision to use Steam to build momentum for Stadia. I don't think Stadia team isn't working closely with ChromeOS team. It would seem like a obvious thing that these two work together so that gaming on Chromebooks become larger than it is, whether that be through Stadia or not.

It's certainly interesting to follow Stadia developments and it's side effects on desktop Linux ecosystem.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 12 October 2020 at 11:24 pm UTC

Quoting: Linuxwarper

Quoting: AnzaEspecially in that kind of scenario things are easier for Google if games are run on Linux.

Define Linux in this context. Debian? Any of the major Linux distributions? Or Google's fork of Debian? And if it runs on Google's Stadia customized Debian, there is little to no guarantee the game will run on Linux. Google could also diverge on the path of Debian further to point that their Debian may become so different to vanilla Debian that porting games would be cumbersome.

That would be a lot of trouble. Sure, Google no doubt do some custom stuff, but the further you diverge the more you have to maintain the thing yourself.