Valve puts up Proton 5.13-4 to get Cyberpunk 2077 working on Linux for AMD GPUs

Quoting: Basiani

Quoting: Leopard

Quoting: BasianiWorMzy

QuoteHowever, by buying a game that doesn't support Linux, you are sending the message to the dev that they don't need to support Linux to get your money. Why should that dev support Linux if you're going to give them money either way?

Thanks. You said what I wanted to say.
Looks like game developers are thinking "Why we support Linux, when Linux users have WINE/PROTON and they already are buying games from us. Yes, they have some pains to play our games but they don't care it so why we care them, why we support them?!"
Buying unsupported game sends game developers signal that you anyway paying of them. So they don't have reason to support Linux. No one makes games for supporting gamers, it's business.

Game sold over 1 million copies at Steam alone , do you really think they will care about a Linux port?

You can't get a Linux port deal from huge games like this if you are not Google and throw money to them for porting the game for your platform.

You are misunderstanding what I'm talking about.
I never said that annoying phrase "Please port your game on Linux", it's shame to say that phrase.

You (maybe) and many others are paying game developing companies doing nothing for Linux. You justify it by saying that rises Linux gaming marketshare. Yes, technically you are right, but look at the other side of the coin, your action causes a backlash, other game developers have noticed this and it also makes sense for them not to create games for Linux.

Other developers see that Linux users are already buying their games even though the games do not have a Linux version. They see that Linux users are paying money for the WINE version. So much less games will be released in the future with the official support of Linux. Why should a game developer create a Linux version when Linux users are happy with the Windows version with WINE?!

Do you remember when Feral Interactive last time ported the game to Linux? For some reason the Feral's radar shows nothing. A large portion of Linux users bought the game before Feral ported it to Linux. Here, to many user wrote contentedly about how well these games ran with the WINE and waited to see when Feral would portray it so that they could then enjoy the Linux version.

I have a question for the public here, does Feral Interactive have any reason to port something to Linux in the future? I guess not, because a large part of you will buy such a game before porting, your paid money will go to the creator of the Windows version of the game, while Feral will be left with a three-finger combination. Consequently there is no reason for Feral to port anything to Linux in future.

No company has any interest in releasing the game with the Linux version as the WINE has done them a disservice. None of developer is foolish enough to incur additional costs in what they will earn income without spending, with the help of WINE.

It is nonsense to talk about the Linux marketer when most of the games bought by Linux users do not have Linux support. Why do Linux users need to pay for the product and receive 30-40% of the product fee?! As the Linux marketer grows, so do the Linux versions of games goes down. Why do you complicate the situation?! Install Windows and play there, get full fun. Your action, paying for wine versions, more and more reduces the likelihood of creating Linux versions and why bother taking in only a small portion of the pleasure to play them with WINE?!

Who cares if you play in Linux?! Nobody, nobody cares that!

I think you are being a bit too idealistic here. The sad truth is, big AAA games will not have a Linux version no matter what we do. Sure, you can make an argument, that if that's the case, we shouldn't be buying these big overhyped AAA games, but buy indie games with native Linux support instead. And yes, that is a good argument to make. But now look at it this way: If literally everyone used that approach and no one would play games using Proton, development of Proton and Wine for games would also stop. Because there would be no demand for it.

And while this would do good for Linux native support, it would not be good for Linux adoption. Like I said in the post before, every time when I hear a Windows user whine about how he would go full Linux, but won't because of gaming, it is never due to an indie game not working on Linux, it is always due to a big AAA title like Cyberpunk.

Just like video game companies are using different merit for us then Win users because we are too small, I use a different merit between indies and AAA games, because indie games are too small. For example, I love Supergiant as game dev and all of their games. But I won't be buying Hades, because it has no Linux version. On the other hand, I still might buy Cyberpunk, when it is on sale.

Also, just because you buy a game with native Linux version it doesn't mean the dev will continue supporting Linux. As was the case with Supergiant for me.

So for now, the answer for AAA games is Proton. The answer for indie games are game engines like Godot which make porting to other platforms a non issue.

We discuss the harm Proton can or has done to native releases. What if developers rely on Stadia for Linux gamers to play their games. What if when we ask CDPR to make Vulkan renderer available for Proton, they then tell us that it's not worth it for them to do that because the game is already playable on Stadia.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 11 December 2020 at 2:11 am UTC

Quoting: einherjar*cries in NVidia*

Fun fitting fact: envidia means envy in spanish

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: Liam Daweif you have an AMD GPU and you don't mind grabbing the latest development code for the Mesa graphics drivers

Just as a heads up to people on Ubuntu and derivatives, no need for latest development code as it seems like Kisak's latest Mesa 20.3.0 stable packages include support for the VK_VALVE_mutable_descriptor_type extension already, along with other useful backports. Hopefully this makes it easier for some of you to play CP2077.

Ah, Kisak updated his PPA just 14 hours ago... Good to know, but unfortunately I already switched to oibaf PPA. :(.

Edit:
O. K, for the first time ever made a good use of my Linux Mint's Timeshift. Restored yesterday environment, stayed on Kisak's PPA.
Can confirm - with latest Kisak's Mesa (20.3.0~kisak3~f) "black environment" graphical bugs are gone. Everything is good. :).
Thanks for pointing it out! :).


Last edited by Trias on 11 December 2020 at 9:40 am UTC

Quoting: poiuzOf course, isn't it the definition of outsourcing: Paying someone else to do the work (in contrast to hire or train someone to do the work "in-house"). There is no difference to CDPR paying QLOC to do the port (though I think that Google paid CDPR that they're "allowed to pay" QLOC).

Not really. Outsourcing is when you devolve responsibility for something you're already doing in house, to a contractor or third party. Valve weren't doing any of this (DXVK, Wine, etc) in house. They're not outsourcing here, they're sponsoring. And in some of those cases, after the sponsorship, they've offered the jobs in house.

I'd love Valve to have a bit more transparently over their plans for Linux. I couldn't even tell you how many of their staff are dedicated to Linux. From a quick google, I could only find a handful (4 or 5) announcements of staff joining for Linux-specific roles.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: NociferAnd you do realize that most often, due to various reasons that are not of relevance here, Windows games running on Wine are much more hassle-free than Linux native games, due not to some kind of special incompetence on the part of the people making them but due to the lackluster graphics/audio/input/etc Linux stack?

I was with you up to this point. How exactly is a layer that translates for Windows games so they call to the Linux "graphics/audio/input/etc stack" supposed to be somehow sidestepping supposed liabilities of that stack?

That was simply a very poor choice of words on my part. With "lackluster" I mainly meant that the Linux stack is convoluted and not very standardized, with lots of pieces and lots of ways to do the same stuff (and it used to be even worse before engines like Unity provided an easy way to export a project for Linux), so game developers more often than not port their Windows games poorly and thus they suffer from performance issues. Add to that the Linux equivalent of "dll hell" and you have an explosive mixture.

With Wine all this is avoided because the games are created and optimized exactly like their Windows versions (because they are the Windows version) and it's Wine that takes care of talking to Linux on their behalf, including taking care of the needed dependencies. "All" we really need to have an experience similar to that of Windows players is good translation tools like DXVK and VKD3D. So, especially after DXVK entered the scene, this has often lead to players preferring the native Windows version for a better experience.

The "due not to some kind of special incompetence on their part" was me mainly thinking about post-release support, in the form of updates and bug fixes (which are usually non-existent because the Linux ports are more often than not released and then abandoned or at best updated only sporadically) and mod support (which is also too often non-existent because mod makers make their mods with the Windows binaries in mind). Both of these are not due to programming incompetence but due to Linux being an after-after-afterthought for most of those game studios that even know what Linux is.

Unfortunately, I took all this and mixed it up atrociously, probably because I was in a hurry to get back in the game :P

Quoting: LinuxwarperWe discuss the harm Proton can or has done to native releases. What if developers rely on Stadia for Linux gamers to play their games. What if when we ask CDPR to make Vulkan renderer available for Proton, they then tell us that it's not worth it for them to do that because the game is already playable on Stadia.

What if they (don't) tell us that them making a Linux-native Vulkan renderer for Stadia is part of an under-the-table deal with Google to not make it available for general use so it won't benefit their competition.

I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories, and I'm practically pulling this out of my a$$ here, but it wouldn't really surprise me if it became known some day that Google has employed such practices in order to promote Stadia.

Quoting: scaineI'd love Valve to have a bit more transparently over their plans for Linux. I couldn't even tell you how many of their staff are dedicated to Linux. From a quick google, I could only find a handful (4 or 5) announcements of staff joining for Linux-specific roles.

I'm not sure that even they know where they want to go with Linux. It's certain that the Proton effort is officially endorsed and not just a side-project of a handful of their employees, and it's obvious to me that they still pursue their plans for a future where they use Linux as a basis for a gaming service of their own (yesterday they used to call it Steam Machines, tomorrow they could call it Steam Cloud), but at this moment in time the situation is still one where they're chasing an ever moving target.

First it was DX11, we got that with DXVK; then it was DX9, we also got that with DXVK; now it's DX12, we've almost got that with VKD3D but it's still WIP because DX12 is still a platform very actively developed for; we also need WMF (almost there), anti-cheat support (the most broken thing currently), and lots of other minor stuff that we do not take into account but they still matter (e.g. just the other day they announced an initiative for re-architecting Wine around input and window management, presumably in order to reduce latency and bring game performance closer to native Windows). And don't forget about the changes that are needed to be implemented within the Linux kernel itself (as an aside, just this simple fact that Valve are taking this as far as to collaborate with the kernel team in order to accommodate Wine's needs, makes me believe that they're serious about their work).

As soon as we have parity in all those areas, and assuming there won't already be a "DX13" already in the making that we'll again have to spend time making compatible (very very improbable if you ask me), then the really good times may at last begin (better tooling, commercial products created on top of this stack, etc). And IMHO, these good times are much nearer than some people may think. In fact, day 1 support for a triple AAA next-gen DX12 game like Cyberpunk 2077, even in this somewhat unstable state (due to VKD3D being still WIP and also due to Nvidia being their usual selves), is phenomenal really.

Quoting: x_wingJust take a look on the number of people that are asking for CP2077 or Galaxy for Linux in GOG and you will see that they cannot have any doubt that a lot of Linux users shows their support but they don't give a fuck. "Keep buying so they notice us" just doesn't makes sense.

Can I please ask, where can this be found on GOG?

Quoting: Boldos

Quoting: x_wingJust take a look on the number of people that are asking for CP2077 or Galaxy for Linux in GOG and you will see that they cannot have any doubt that a lot of Linux users shows their support but they don't give a fuck. "Keep buying so they notice us" just doesn't makes sense.

Can I please ask, where can this be found on GOG?

https://www.gog.com/wishlist/galaxy/release_the_gog_galaxy_client_for_linux

https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/cyberpunk_2077_on_linux